Philosophy Perspective on Money

It's funny how we are brought up to learn the importance of money so we can live in society as comfortably as we can. It is funny because money plays a huge part in the world and it's not even tangible. Sure you can touch money as in currency papers or gold but that itself is not money just a representation of an idea that we socially agree on. In my opinion money exists because we as a society trade love for fear but that is a whole other story.

My question is that if a lot of the world is in dire straights as far as debt, why don't we as a world forgive debt? What does one gain by holding debt against someone they can't pay it back? If you give money to someone, don't lend it to them hoping to get it back because you will spend more energy than it is worth worry about getting it back.

reply to post by Ralphy


money philosophically represent ones freedom moral value rights in present positive reality life that ones do not live through

it is important that any objective realities be perceived according to its true constancies sources at least morally that make that reality positively living object constancy

that is why ones can work for companies projects success where they are not related to at all individually but a personnal recognition objectively of their valuable contributions for what it is really existing is necessary for the constancy object success in positive terms, and only money as free recognition of debts to present values allows it

anyone experience personnally the absolute justification of what else is obliged to recognize objectively out of his true contributions physically and morally of his time, wether meaning his real personnal investements that cant be considered as nothing since it is true or wether meaning object true value ends or both

but the bottom point i mean there philosophically that justify money, that for all to b alright any right must b recognized while rights are objective realizations of free present existing ones, when one can realize its own reality objectively there is no need for money there, the free sense out of its own positive reality realized is enpowered positively in truth, but ones dont realize only themselves realities when objective reality is also of different free ones in same space, so ones are constantly dealing with objects ends positive living sense that do not concern themselves in anything in order to reach to b their free right sense out of themselves realizations

ur freedom sense must not be held by others abuses or objects living ends that do not recognize its sources rights in order for ur free sense to b mostly u freely right out of individual self realizations positive right

that is why the idea basically that everyone mean money negatively through, is what we dont need money if else do not exist but when else exist money is very crucial element to deal with others through for everyone freedom respect

to me i try to think how to deal with money in different terms system, like who is doing a lousy job in my philosophical realm justification he must get more money, as for sure he is giving to smthg that is never about him, and some lousy jobs are very precious to every human constant state

i do not see a problem in paying more who are providing cleaning stuffs then paying a business store that already live morally out of his business property

it is a delicate ideal conception of objective money possessions rights but i think it stands logically relatively much better for rights then what we do, so it proves that what we do is not of logics but of evil living wills

reply to post by Ralphy


Good question.

Money is indeed intangible and only holds value in objective thought. Same with the contract and society. But because we signed a contract when we were born—and we live in society with other people who've signed that contract—we must abide by the rules of society.

The corporation created in our name when we're born (the birth certificate) is bound by every contract that we sign. (ceck out this page for more info) The only thing we can do to separate ourselves from the debt that our corporations create is to distance yourself from that corporation, leave society altogether or pay up.

There isn't any tangible value in money, but since we find value in society (something just as intangible), it gives money inherent value. And since we're bound by contracts that society has created for us, we—or rather the corporations created in our name—are bound by them as long as we live in society.

How is a corporation created in our name? The use of all-caps of your name on your birth certificate, SIN card and license represent the corporation created in your name, not you as a real person.

This is my opinion anyways.

Yeah it's messed up, and it exists only in our heads.

Originally posted by Ralphy Sure you can touch money as in currency papers or gold but that itself is not money just a representation of an idea that we socially agree on. In my opinion money exists because we as a society trade love for fear but that is a whole other story.

You will have to extend on what you are trying to say. Money has always been a medium to exchange property of value.

My question is that if a lot of the world is in dire straights as far as debt, why don't we as a world forgive debt? What does one gain by holding debt against someone they can't pay it back? If you give money to someone, don't lend it to them hoping to get it back because you will spend more energy than it is worth worry about getting it back.

Not necessarily true. If you lend money to someone, it is under the agreement that you will get it back by holding collateral, without the aid of law, this is easily done by the threat of violence or enslavement. If we forgave debt, you give incentive to irresponsible borrowing and unaccountable credibility.

reply to post by juveous

I understand that forgiving debt can encourage people to recklessly take credit without the thought of liability. What I'm saying is that if someone can't pay an existing debt than it would be easier to forgive it rather than worry about it.

When we put a value on food and resources concerned with the sustainability of life then people start to suffer. People starve to death and die from treatable illnesses because they don't have money. Where are our priorities when we would rather have someone die rather than let go on the concept of value on necessities of life.

Its a never ending cycle of trying to earn money to spend money, it almost seems redundant to me but that's just my opinion.

I could not agree with you more...100%.

As such, and since money is absolutely worthless, I suggest you send me all of your money. Then you can forgive me owing any of it back to you and just think, all that stress and worry you have about money will be gone...

I mean, put your money where your ATS post is....and give it to me. I am one of those oafs that still places value in money, instead of transcending to a higher level of thought and existence....

We won't forgive debt because human's are still a rather young species. We're childish and greedy. Asking most of us to forgive debt is like asking a group of children to give up candy because it's bad for them. They can't do it and they won't. No matter how many times you tell them it's bad for them , they won't give it to you.
Though I've noticed that a few people on ATS like yourself have begone to figure out how pointless this system which gives me a bit of hope for the future.

reply to post by Ralphy


The problem with just forgetting about the debt is that it can make for the bad habit of essentially giving away money. If that is the case then why loan it to begin with, why not just give it away? I think the point is that trust comes with a price, and when people exploit that, the real victim becomes the lender.

I agree that the sustainability of survival is a messed up system that we share based on working for a paycheck. At the same time, I think the current system is the evolved product of trial and error of the past. Its going to change again in the future imo, possibly eliminating all forms of physical exchange. Goods and services that provide for the basic necessities aren't completely automated yet, until then, I think we are going to unfortunately be paying for the work that other's are providing for those basic necessities.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
I could not agree with you more...100%.

As such, and since money is absolutely worthless, I suggest you send me all of your money. Then you can forgive me owing any of it back to you and just think, all that stress and worry you have about money will be gone...

I mean, put your money where your ATS post is....and give it to me. I am one of those oafs that still places value in money, instead of transcending to a higher level of thought and existence....

I'm not talking about giving money away, I'm talking about existing debt that can't be paid back. I can understand if people don't give money away because they need it to buy food, that is another story. I'm not even saying money is evil or bad because it isn't.

My main point in this thread is that it is easier to forgive existing debt that can't be paid back. I'm not saying we should all give our money away.

reply to post by Ralphy


when a thing exist really then it is a fact, it is not up to anyone to mess with it as to give it away or take it, so ur premise of having to forget about debts or what u have, is only possible through the concept that money is not a thing fact
but then u must justify its shape of existing in clarifying how it is a free representation of smthg else that exist really, then u can see some hands loose freedom relatively from what it is true

but also then u must prove how u mean to respect what exist really in absolute right terms, since it is u who disregard money debts existence,

im just proving how u speak from nothing to nothing, there are major facts base of existence that u ignore totally

u cannot say about any object that we can destroy it like that, all is related absolutely when u mean any of its free concept being a thing u should behave as a responsable true conscious when u r acting from free conscious expressions about knowing everything being conceived right as objective whole existence fact

reply to post by absolutely


u lack totally the recognition of constancy value, replacing it by wills, as if saying lets do this and that can do anything or can even exist objectively, u can speak endlessly u r never related to any object if u r not object too absolute reality at least

second element that u lack totally is objects value, which is related to constancy at a point

u dont recognize that a true object is not a created thing, u can create things but only through true objects

object by definition is an absolute value from being a fact real, so it is according to its fact statements not according to anything else and surely not u

u enjoy too much gods fanciful powers to relative creations that u jump too fast in willing to mean those powers enough for living exclusively through in objective terms, well no it is impossible
i dunno why u were given the ability to conceive ur perspectives and speak freely, but definitely there is smthg wrong

freedom reference is absolute positive object one existence, it is a very serious realm of freedom superiority objective always which confirm existence being true as always less then what existence is true and real

freedom is the thing matter that zero or nothing to know, abstractions and conceptions are to be in that reality and through not for free inventions only, u r out of that free yes since it is but then stay out u cant mean objective realm like that

reply to post by absolutely


Absolutely, I'm not sure why you are stating what I lack. I was merely stating my opinion not absolute truth.

If people don't want to forgive debt than they don't have to, it comes down to a personal choice. I just think it would feel better to forgive that's all.

reply to post by Ralphy


it would b subjective giving nothing real, and subjective mean that cant be objective is what objective prove being evil in absolute free lies

Originally posted by Ralphy
It's funny how we are brought up to learn the importance of money so we can live in society as comfortably as we can. It is funny because money plays a huge part in the world and it's not even tangible. Sure you can touch money as in currency papers or gold but that itself is not money just a representation of an idea that we socially agree on. In my opinion money exists because we as a society trade love for fear but that is a whole other story.

My question is that if a lot of the world is in dire straights as far as debt, why don't we as a world forgive debt? What does one gain by holding debt against someone they can't pay it back? If you give money to someone, don't lend it to them hoping to get it back because you will spend more energy than it is worth worry about getting it back.

I think there are certainly other alternatives, like lending money without expecting anything in return, except help in some other area. ie I lend you money, you take it and do what you need with it, and then if I ever need some help that doesn't involve money, you help me.