do people have a right to vend?

i spent most of the summer in the taos area. to suplement my income i spent a couple of days a week vending at the rio grande bridge.
wiki, gorge bridge.

people, mostly artists, have been vending in this same spot for over 30 years.
recently some 'higher ups' decided that it was time to kick everybody out. there were many excuses as to why they wanted people to leave.

even though the issue was taken to court, the ruling is obviously being ignored.

A state District Court judge dismissed the “misuse of public property” charges against the vendors a year ago last month, ruling among other things that the statute under which they had been charged was unconstitutional and overly vague. Baca said he had heard that the Department of Transportation planned to permanently seal off the area just east of the bridge, where the vendors have been located.

abq journal article,

the latest excuse being used is;

This comes at the instigation of Taos Pueblo War chief Edwin Concha who has been on a mission to remove the vendors this whole past summer and fall. He has been claiming that the presence of vendors was detrimental to the wild bighorn sheep that have been reintroduced into the area. He has had no real evidence to support this and it has been contradicted by one of our local game wardens.

considering the fact that a good percentage of the vendors are taos puebloan peoples, not only are they taking away business from some of the local artists, they are also taking away income from their own people.

this issue will most likely end up back in court.
there have been protestors flying signs and a call has been made to boycott the taos mountain casino.
some considered calling for a boycott of the pueblo, but considering many natives were vendors, nobody wants to interfere with any income being made.

December 10th 2011
It was a cold and windy day and a handful of vendors assembled at the far end of the parking area that was bermed and sealed off yesterday and set up in the frozen mud. The sheriffs showed up and at first told us we had to leave but our county commissioner was contacted and the sheriffs deputies finally told us we could stay. We were visited by other vendors and some interested parties including Bill Whaley who has been writing about our situation in the Taos Friction. As much as I am angered by the actions of the Taos Pueblo Government and its war chief in particular, I don't support a boycott of Taos Pueblo at this time--a lot of my fellow vendors are from the pueblo and are just as affected by this as I am. I think, however, that Taos Mountain Casino is fair game and I think it is time to start a boycott of the Taos Mountain Casino. Tribal sovereignty doesn't give the tribe's leaders the right to wage economic warfare on neighboring communities. So from now on the official stance of Taosgorgebridge.com is:
Boycott Taos Mountain Casino!!!

link to pics and info.

so, where do you stand on an issue like this, should people be allowed to vend in order to make an income?
should it be restricted to flea markets and craft shows, only being allowed on private property?
comments welcome, whether you agree or not.

One more obstacle to self reliance.

People walking around looking for employment are essentially vendors trying to sell their skills. Should job seekers be required to purchase permits and licenses?

As long as you arent trespassing or committing harassment go ahead and vend your good or service.

Government is funny. Unemployment is high and you cant sell to get by.

people should have the right to be vendors but in approved locations.
No offense to vendors, but those people selling flowers and fruits by highways are a danger to all motorists.
There are laws to protect the general public from vendors setting up shop anywhere they choose because it is not always the safest place for the general public to become distracted by pretty wares. In NY there are hundreds of licensed and unlicensed sidewalk vendors and while they are fine and pretty much just doing their thing to make a living, sometimes when a crowd forms it can be very disruptive to the general passerby just trying to get from point A to point B.

I agree with laws being necessary to facilitate the process for both the vendors and the general public.

One of my favorite parts of traveling is the random vendors, especially since I'm a pirate at heart and like to but fake versions of things only someone with either a massive ego or fat bank roll would buy. For example, I got some NICE fake ray-bands outside the airport of Mozabique, some ridiculous fake Louis Vuitton glasses in Cape Town, fake Burbery(sp?lol) belt and shirts in Morroco, fake breitling and gucci watch too. And of course some nice fake rolexs in China and Puerto Rico.

Anyway, back on topic, there are plenty of legit vendors too. If it was up to me, I would say people have a right to vend on any public property(within reason). I love street vendors lol.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


sometimes i truly believe it's a matter of lining the right pockets.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
people should have the right to be vendors but in approved locations.
No offense to vendors, but those people selling flowers and fruits by highways are a danger to all motorists.
There are laws to protect the general public from vendors setting up shop anywhere they choose because it is not always the safest place for the general public to become distracted by pretty wares. In NY there are hundreds of licensed and unlicensed sidewalk vendors and while they are fine and pretty much just doing their thing to make a living, sometimes when a crowd forms it can be very disruptive to the general passerby just trying to get from point A to point B.

I agree with laws being necessary to facilitate the process for both the vendors and the general public.

you bring up a good point, but i personally see a difference when talking about being within an incorporated town/city.
most do have a permit that can be obtained.
in this instance we are talking about being 10 miles from any border of a town/city limits.
the issue here is a right of way.
durring the courtcase, the vendors even brought up the idea of lining pockets with a fee to both the state and pueblo.
judge declined.

reply to post by CREAM


the bootleg issue is insane. personally, i have no desire for any of it.
look at the music industry.
it is a major reason why so many flea markets and roadside vendors are being fined and shut down.
dvd's are big around here. 5 bucks for a movie that is still in the theaters.
anyhow, in this instence we're talking about arts and crafts, mostly local, but some imports.
mexican pottery and stuff.

I see no problem with it. At what point did someone deem it illegal for someone to peddle their wares? It's called capitalism. Until the recent past a lot of people sold out of their homes. Restaurants and even hotels were run from ones home. My guess would be commercial real estate developers "persuaded" city governments that they should only be allowed to do this in a commercial space. It's a shame really. There are a lot of good craftsmen out there who cannot afford a commercial space, that do excellent quality work. I for one will usually stop at these roadside vendors. I would rather give them my money than the likes of Walmart! Screw China, let's buy from our own!

reply to post by rubbertramp


Bootlegging has become an issue because of the raping of the American population. Take music for example. It costs less to produce a CD than it was to press vinyl. Yet CD's cost more. They are taking us to the cleaners. Movies are another thing. Why should it cost me nearly $50 to take my family to see a movie? It shouldn't. People buy the knock-off products because somewhere someone decided that if you had an italian or french sounding last name your product was worth 100 times more than that of a regular name. It's ludicrous.

reply to post by haarvik


could you imagine outlawing vendors in the past. that's basically all there was.
look at the 3rd world today, same thing.
the major issue, imo, is that it is still a cash income. those who want to claim taxes are welcome to, the rest just pocket cash.
it's obvious that there is an increase governments wanting control and their cut.

If you want to sell something, and you either own the property or have set up an agreement to sell from that property or location... and it does not endanger people's lives...then by all means...you should be able to sell it.

I sell all kinds of stuff from my farm, on the side of the road, or with signs up along the road with instruction as to where to turn... firewood, goats, pigs, tomatoes, home made furniture, etc.

That is the absolute spirit of capitalism and one way the individual stays an individual... by thinking, by being innovative and industrious, and by supporting yourself.

When George Washington wanted to sell salted fish to England...he fished the Potomac and salted them down and put'em in barrels for transport.

When George Washington wanted to sell whiskey, he set up a distillery and made whiskey.

When George Washington wanted to make and sell fine flour, he set up an operation and did so.

When the government imposed fines and punitive taxes for being industrious and self suppotive, George Washington rebelled and fought against the government.

Let's all be more like George Washington, I say.

reply to post by rubbertramp


You are absolutely correct.
To me banning vendors, especially Native American vendors, would take away a segment of artistry that I think should be preserved. We have already lost way too much in the form of craftsmanship and artistry that we may never get back. We allowed mass production first on our soil, then overseas, to dominate a once localized trade. We need these vendors to preserve our traditions and our arts that are passed from generation to generation. people need to see these works of art, and banning them will only lead to them being lost.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone

Let's all be more like George Washington, I say.

edit on 14-12-2011 by AlreadyGone because: spelling

And we'll fill up those FEMA camps in no time at all.

I've recently purchased land and in an effort to leave the 9-5 rat race (actually it's 6-9 M-S) I've been tinkering with hobbies and skills and preparing some marketable venture to vend.

Without fail as I look into these things there's a wall ahead of fees, regulations, permits, inspections and fines.

Sure, there are a few helping hands out there for small farmers but even then the capitol to get going in fees and permits and regulatory requirements alone is such an obscene obstacle I'd have to go into crazy debt just to make a go at a chance for a living this way.

What the hell America? What the hell?

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Bootlegging has become an issue because of the raping of the American population. Take music for example. It costs less to produce a CD than it was to press vinyl. Yet CD's cost more. They are taking us to the cleaners. Movies are another thing. Why should it cost me nearly $50 to take my family to see a movie? It shouldn't. People buy the knock-off products because somewhere someone decided that if you had an italian or french sounding last name your product was worth 100 times more than that of a regular name. It's ludicrous.

What are you talking about?

For one, it is a good thing music downloads are free. A lot of artists give away their music for free now because they make enough off of touring, which IMO is how it should be. See livemixtapes.com for all the latest rap music free and legal... while thats probably not the type of music you like, it is an excellent model of how things should work. No point in physical CDs anymore anyway.

Movie ticket prices are not affected so much by pirating. Most people I know just use netflix and don't even bother with the illegal downloads. When I did buy movies illegally in China, I did so because the were like $.80 and I would have bought any movies at all back in the US, I am not much of a movie of TV watcher.

"People buy the knock-off products because somewhere someone decided that if you had an italian or french sounding last name your product was worth 100 times more than that of a regular name. It's ludicrous."
I agree with you there, thats why I buy fake stuff, makes fun of people who pay the full price for something that has been marked up 99% lol.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


What you need to do is a co-op system. People buy into the co-op for a set fee. in return, you provide X amount of produce, etc. If you are raising meat, then they can "buy" a portion of the stock, and you raise it. Farmers around here do this sort of thing all the time.

reply to post by CREAM


Ahh...but there is a much cheaper and easier way to have that stuff, and for it to be genuine!
If you are near a major metropolitan area, find a goodwill or salvation army store. I have found Gucci, Ferragamo, and others there for a few bucks. Some of the shoes look like they had never been worn. And most shoes are $3 or $4 a pair! Same for suits. My brother got a Armani suit with the tags still on it for $15. It doesn't take much to dress like you are wealthy, you just have to know how to do it!

No one has the right to control others, with property laws (within reason for there are probably some abuses that are dangerous or destructive to others) or insist on limitiing businesses, or cap everyone but the elite. Most of their laws are crimes. Public property belongs to us, not them. They are only paid employees, should be treated as a teacher, or a mcdonalds worker. Ears not mouths.

Basic common law, is like virtues, thou shalt not kill, rape, steal, etc.

the laws ( government getting paid) for vending are ridiculous in this country. Why should I have to pay a fee to sell my things in my font yard?(yard sales) why should a child have to pay a fee to set up a lemonade stand etc..

This country is not a free country and has not been in a very long time.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


depending on what your ideas are, it's usually easier to just set up at a flea market or farmers market.
pay a daily fee and be done with it.
attempting this on private property in an incorporated town will cost you.
i went from owning a store to vending as mentioned due to the lack of biz, economy.
just wasn't worth keeping the doors open.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

What you need to do is a co-op system. People buy into the co-op for a set fee. in return, you provide X amount of produce, etc. If you are raising meat, then they can "buy" a portion of the stock, and you raise it. Farmers around here do this sort of thing all the time.

alot of this will come down to local ordinances.
might be east, might cost more than the effort is worth.
sometimes you'd be better off just selling to a co-op/health food store.
it's really tough to sell to any sort of comercial grocery.
most would rather ship veggies from mexico than buy from a small local operation.