Why Do People Defend Unjust, Inept, and Corrupt Systems?

reply to post by tangonine

Says the guy with an avatar with an AK in his hand. shark, jump it much?

Ad Hominem attack much? When you have nothing to argue attack the guys avatar, that just says you are childish and desperate. He agreed with me so you lash out at something that is not even relevant LOL

UAW controls 65% Chrylser and 17% of GM yes, it's that bad

Some unions showed up at OWS, the UAW was not even one of the larger union groups at occupy even. However you tried to associate me using GM as a example of exploiting good will attaching it to occuoy itself. If the UAW is working on seizing control of the company then it's employees should be well taken care of. But that is not the case looks like the company has it's hand in the union. I can go on about that and was once a UAW member. Thats what happened here John Deere has it's company "boys" sitting cozy at the union hall throwing union members under the bus at the company's request but that is another topic.

See? it's things like this that make useful discussions with people like you completely pointless. I stopped reading your post there because, well, you're so woefully ignorant, it just hurts.

If you stopped reading my posts then how are you responding to them lol? Actually this seems like a case of selective reading for the truth does not bode well with you. Kind of like a kid putting his hands over his ears throwing a tantrum.

stop hitting yourself? why are you hitting yourself?

Sounds like a personal issue, did daddy hit you? Do you hit yourself? I certainly dont. But there are people you can talk to about it.

Another point - is that certain personalities are *very* strongly motivated by particular self-interests. These sorts of wills are (likely) much stronger than the wills that are driven by benevolent altruistic interests; ...so the former wins!

Maybe this is just the way of nature.

Look, here's the drill.

I'm 43 years old... I'd say I know (and I mean I know... not just met, talked to in an airport... I mean KNOW) maybe 500 people. Plus or minus the dead people.

Now. Of those, I'd have to say I know maybe 50 (that's 10% for you that are bad at math) that MIGHT pay attention to current events.

Of those, I'd have to guess that 1 in 10 are really dialed in. That is: they are like the ATS ninjas that check multiple websites related to space news, international news, local news, national news... and expand all of those because they don't want a biased opinion and want the full spectrum from which to make a decision.

NO ONE DOES THAT. Well. 'cept me. And *some* of the people that post here.

I tell my wife that when I teach, I check my ego at the door. Likewise, when I look for information, I check my bias at the door. Rare thing, that.

Originally posted by nOraKat
Another point - is that certain personalities are very strongly motivated by self-interests. These sorts of wills are (likely) much stronger than those wills that are driven by benevolent altruistic interests.

Maybe this is just the way of nature.

edit on 14-12-2011 by nOraKat because: (no reason given)

prescient point. Some of us are wired to self actualize, some are wired to... not? See? I can't even verbalize what it is they're doing. I'm sure they feel the same way.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by tangonine

 

Says the guy with an avatar with an AK in his hand. shark, jump it much?

Ad Hominem attack much? When you have nothing to argue attack the guys avatar, that just says you are childish and desperate. He agreed with me so you lash out at something that is not even relevant LOL

UAW controls 65% Chrylser and 17% of GM yes, it's that bad

Some unuions showed up at OWS, the UAW was not even one of the larger union groups at occupy even. However you tried to associate me using GM as a example of exploiting good will attaching it to occuoy itself. If the UAW is working on seising control of the company then it's employees should be well taken care of. But that is not the case looks like the company has it's hand in the union. I can go on about that and was once a UAW member. John Deere has it's "boys" sitting cozy at the union hall throwing union members under the bus at the companys request but that is another topic.

See? it's things like this that make useful discussions with people like you completely pointless. I stopped reading your post there because, well, you're so woefully ignorant, it just hurts.

If you stopped reading my posts then how are you responding to them lol? Actually this seems like a case of selective reading for the truth does not bode well with you. Kind of like a kid putting his hands over his ears throwing a tantrum.

stop hitting yourself? why are you hitting yourself?

Sounds like a personal issue, did daddy hit you? Do you hit yourself? I certainly dont. But there are people you can talk to about it.

edit on 14-12-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)

Isn't your entire argument an ad hominem attack?

No, I read your post, it was just a case of not responding to nonsense. Sorry if that offends you. Put more lol's and smiley laughy faces in, though, because that will make me take you more seriously. You have some kind of batman guy fawkes loser avatar ffs. srsly.

reply to post by tangonine


No my argument is not Ad Hominem dont try and spin it

So your excuse is avatars netspeak and smiley faces render other peoples points moot? Well this is a logical fallacy, and then your assertion that people are in to masochism when you dont agree is suppose to be taken seriously really?

No wonder why society is so screwed up if we have people like this in teaching positions like you claim

Originally posted by Unknown SoldierSome unions showed up at OWS,

Like this one? www.democracynow.org... rs_arrested_in

or these guys? www.redstate.com... runionreport/2011/11/15/union-bosses-express-outrage-over-occupyevictions-we-are-the-99/

Or here? From the AFL-CIO? blog.aflcio.org... h-occupy-movement-in-oakland-and-nationwide/

dude. If you're going to argue from a position of ignorance, the best fallback position is humor. not 11-year old text-messag-ish "lol" and emoticons.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by tangonine

 

No my argument is not Ad Hominem dont try and spin it

So your excuse is avatars netspeak and smiley faces render other peoples points moot? Well this is a logical fallacy, and then your assertion that people are in to masochism when you dont agree is suppose to be taken seriously really?

No wonder why society is so screwed up if we have people like this in teaching positions like you claim

edit on 14-12-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-12-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)

cute. but I don't bring politics into my classroom. though I might find a way to fit your ignorance and avatar in next semester.

EDIT: it is electrostatics, so it'll be tough... maybe at the end of the semester when we get into wave functions and dissonance (as in cognitive).

Originally posted by DerVerboten
reply to post by Maxmars

 

My dad's a drunk, a loser, practicly homeless, hadent had a job for 15 years until this one. Other bad stuff I wont say. He doesnt listen, he has an anger issue if you push him, and he's unreliable.

I still love him.

EVEN THOUGH HE'S NOT MY REAL DAD!

edit on 14-12-2011 by DerVerboten because: An analogy to answer your question.

Dear Daughter,
You really should get in touch with reality and stop listening to your mother ie my ex- wife. I stay in hotels because I am a buisness owner and consultant and travel to make multiple six figures. No, I have not had a "job" for a while because I do not depend on someone else. I do have a home, but it paid for.
I am also glad you clairfied that your mother was cheating on me when I went to serve my country back in the day. I knew you did not act or look like me, but I still supported you all your life.
In fact, ask your mother and grandmother who stopped them from having you aborted.

Life can be rough, but you have to cut through the BS and see things for what they really are.

If you are not my daughter whom will not answer my calls unless you need money, just press on and keep depending on the next lie. I am sure it will take you far.

reply to post by Maxmars


Every idea is self justifiable.
Each emotion is self justifiable.

It is all slave conditioning to obey, trust, be loyal to the idea, no matter which one in particular. And the complex system of justification which produces conscience and guilt "feeling", work fine to keep people enslaved.

One needs to educate himself and be smarter than this, which is socially almost impossible, because of the overwhelming entanglement.

Because Humans are primates that tend to act like sheep after interacting with other primates....they don't know why they do the things they do, it's just how things have always been done. Consider the following:

The Experiment- Part 1
5 monkeys are locked in a cage, a banana was hung from the ceiling and a ladder was placed right underneath it.
As predicted, immediately, one of the monkeys would race towards the ladder, to grab the banana. However, as soon as he would start to climb, the researcher would spray the monkey with ice-cold water.
but here's the kicker- In addition, he would also spray the other four monkeys…

When a second monkey tried to climb the ladder, the researcher would, again, spray the monkey with ice-cold water, As well as the other four watching monkeys;
This was repeated again and again until they learned their lesson
Climbing equals scary cold water for EVERYONE so No One Climbs the ladder.

The Experiment- Part 2
Once the 5 monkeys knew the drill, the researcher replaced one of the monkeys with a new inexperienced one. As predicted, the new monkey spots the banana, and goes for the ladder. BUT, the other four monkeys, knowing the drill, jumped on the new monkey and beat him up. The beat up new guy thus Learns- NO going for the ladder and No Banana Period- without even knowing why! and also without ever being sprayed with water!

These actions get repeated with 3 more times, with a new monkey each time and ASTONISHINGLY each new monkey- who had never received the cold-water Spray himself (and didn't even know anything about it), would Join the beating up of the New guy.

This is a classic example of Mob Mentality- bystanders and outsiders uninvolved with the fight- join in 'just because'.

When the researcher replaced a third monkey, the same thing happened; likewise for the fourth until, eventually, all the monkeys had been replaced and none of the original ones are left in the cage (that had been sprayed by water).

The Experiment- Part 3
Again, a new monkey was introduced into the cage. It ran toward the ladder only to get beaten up by the others. The monkey turns with a curious face asking "why do you beat me up when I try to get the banana?"
The other four monkeys stopped and looked at each other puzzled (None of them had been sprayed and so they really had no clue why the new guy can't get the banana) but it didn't matter, it was too late, the rules had been set. And So, although they didn't know WHY, they beat up the monkey just because " that's the way we've always done things around here"…

We are monkeys albeit very clever monkeys, monkeys none the less.

Here's another thought that adds to your argument:

the 1960's saw a generation that was anti-establishment. They changed the world in a myriad of ways. I, too, am a product of that generation.

But what happened in the 80's and the 90's is that those hippies, those anti-establishment students, those bra burners... they eventually shelved those values in favor of the world around them. In their 50's and 60's and 70's now, a lot of that generation sold out to the establishment for stocks, Apple products, mortgages, etc.

There have been many famous articles written about this phenomenon, including this one: www.anotherperspective.org/advoc283.html

Many of the people who participated in anti-war protests, etc., are no longer active in politics, etc.

Originally posted by MRuss
Here's another thought that adds to your argument:

the 1960's saw a generation that was anti-establishment. They changed the world in a myriad of ways. I, too, am a product of that generation.

But what happened in the 80's and the 90's is that those hippies, those anti-establishment students, those bra burners... they eventually shelved those values in favor of the world around them. In their 50's and 60's and 70's now, a lot of that generation sold out to the establishment for stocks, Apple products, mortgages, etc.

There have been many famous articles written about this phenomenon, including this one: www.anotherperspective.org/advoc283.html

Many of the people who participated in anti-war protests, etc., are no longer active in politics, etc.

Life is long and boring...

At that time, there were great leaders of people, mostly music geniuses, many died young. At that moment music was not simply fun, it was inspiring a life of creativeness. This great wave passed, and only few kept riding on it.

All in all, people are not being prepared to live like riders on the storm. Most people fall because they don't know the difference, don't know what grabbed them...

In order to live like that, you have to abandon life as is presently considered "normal", although there is very little "normal" about it. It is life of enslavement, repeating, inertia. Still, the capacity to resist it is missing in most humans.

reply to post by Maxmars


I saved a page yesterday of someting I got tired of writing for ATS on the Rant forum. I won't atempt to explain it here, but those that allow themselves to think clearly can simply take the title and run with it. It serves as a correct, concise answer to the title of this thead.

"The word "Government" is merely a long word for the term "God""

Originally posted by tangonine
Look, here's the drill.

I'm 43 years old... I'd say I know (and I mean I know... not just met, talked to in an airport... I mean KNOW) maybe 500 people. Plus or minus the dead people.

Now. Of those, I'd have to say I know maybe 50 (that's 10% for you that are bad at math) that MIGHT pay attention to current events.

Of those, I'd have to guess that 1 in 10 are really dialed in. That is: they are like the ATS ninjas that check multiple websites related to space news, international news, local news, national news... and expand all of those because they don't want a biased opinion and want the full spectrum from which to make a decision.

NO ONE DOES THAT. Well. 'cept me. And *some* of the people that post here.

I tell my wife that when I teach, I check my ego at the door. Likewise, when I look for information, I check my bias at the door. Rare thing, that.

sad but true ... minorities , majorities , opposing polarities and interests, polar shifts ...
the room for interpretation is open

reply to post by Nephalim


As king Solomon said there is nothing new under there the sun.No one has an original thought.Most things have been thought of way before us and just repeated many times but it doesnt make it less true.eg( George Orwells 1984 or Huxely's Brave new world all written before most of us were born

Originally posted by tangonine
If you don't define "the system" you actually can't argue against "it."

You folks do realize that, yes?

The system has been defined and the people are protesting about it.

It is you that needs to get informed, or maybe you are informed and like corruption because it benefits you.

Kind of like what someone before me stated. My money is on the second possibility. Enjoy your temporary gratification.

Originally posted by celticdog
reply to post by Nephalim

 

As king Solomon said there is nothing new under there the sun.No one has an original thought.Most things have been thought of way before us and just repeated many times but it doesnt make it less true.eg( George Orwells 1984 or Huxely's Brave new world all written before most of us were born

thanks celticdog , wonderful post , no one of us can truly take any real credit for anything because we dont know exactly the reasons behind our reasoning for some reasonable reasons . us humans are such imitating folks . monkey see monkey do . but that also needn't be of moral weight until you set the scale .for all we know , everyone of us could be just a puppet . a shill . or her/his own zenmaster . choiche is yours , don't be late . take a rest ... as a friend ...

Originally posted by tangonine

UAW controls 65% Chrylser and 17% of GM yes, it's that bad

Too bad they don't control 100% so that workers have just as much influence as the corps do. I look at it from the opposite perspective.

See? it's things like this that make useful discussions with people like you completely pointless. I stopped reading your post there because, well, you're so woefully ignorant, it just hurts.

You should heed your own advice.

stop hitting yourself? why are you hitting yourself?

edit on 14-12-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-12-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

He is not hitting himself. He supports unions over corps, just like I do! Deal with it!!