What if you don't have to figure any of it out?

What if the point was never to understand it? What if the solution to the problem is to stop seeing it as a problem and just let it go, walk away, and forget about it?

Like in a dream, bad or good, you're moving along and you have a goal set ahead of you, you have things you NEED TO DO. But then suddenly it begins to fade away, and you realize you are moving to a different reality, but still it all seems so important somehow. And then you wake up so confused because none of it made any sense at all. You were doing all sorts of crazy things for bizarre reasons, and making up all the rules as you went along.

How is that different from this "real life" you move through now? When you wake up from this dream do you think it will matter anymore? Imagine you are in some afterlife looking back at this, will it make any sense? Is this a nightmare? Will we take a deep breath and sigh with relief that it wasnt real, and didnt matter?

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
Will we take a deep breath and sigh with relief that it wasnt real, and didnt matter?

I dont think it will be quite that simple but either way, this is my new happy thought.

I doubt if anything we are doing here should or would make sense one day, sense is a very overrated word in our times if you ask me.

You don't have to ever bother with trying to figure out any of it. You aren't required to ever learn anything if you don't want to. No one else will care if you learn or not. Your future belongs to you, and you're free to deal with what awaits in any manner that makes you feel most comfortable.

I used to care, but I've discovered that people aren't actually trying to learn anything at all about what's real - especially if it challenges the comfortable narrative that they inherited from either their parents or the first dissident teacher they ran into back when they initially decided to walk off on that family tradition. God himself could literally hand them the keys to the kingdom, and he'd end up finding those keys in the trash (or tossed into the bushes that ring the parking lot if they're the polite sort that doesn't enjoy insulting anyone) once those seekers have finally wandered off in "search" of the next new interesting notion.

I wonder. Is there anywhere online where real learning is actually happening in this field? So far, I haven't found anywhere that doesn't have ideology salesmen running up each other's asses over who's really got the inside rail on salvation and/or enlightenment. If I was lost and trying to find some truth, and logging onto any one of these discussion forums, there's no way I'd feel free to admit my ignorance and ask for help. It'd be like being a limping gazelle on the plains of Africa.

Maybe there are people who care about what's true. If there are, then I feel sympathy for them. They don't need to ever figure any of this out, but if it does matter to them enough for it to demand of them a full examination of what can and can't be true, then I hope they find that environment where the information is simply available to them, with nothing held back under the sacred mandate that core wisdom can only be allowed to those who've devoted themselves to years in service of the ideology beforehand. After years, it's not the truth that holds a person within a devotions grip. It's the reluctance of having to walk off on all that personal investment.

After the body drops, it'll matter, but it's not as if you'll be alone in your situation as you emerge from the tunnel. You'll be with all he others that believe as you do, and maybe it'll be good. Maybe not, but who knows. Maybe you'll luck out.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


I like the way you think... S&F

though if it is all just a dream, wouldn't we want to make the best of said 70-100 some odd years of it?

Love is the way... Be love

reply to post by NorEaster


ive re-read your reply a few times, and the "problem" or roadblock or whatever you want to say, that i believe you are having is this illusion of "other people".

what do "other people" matter to YOU, to the "I AM" behind your own eyes?

i would try to see "other people" as lessons to learn from, not crutches for support. you dont need them to live your life your own way unless you were planning on living it up on their shoulders. and forget trying to learn directly from someone else because the only voice you should be listening to is the voice inside your head, every other voice is subjective towards its own perspective, not yours.
we have evolved a bit beyond the need for herd mentality, we can take care of our own souls, our own minds.

you dont need to do anything for them, or against them. thats kinda what i mean here. you dont have to figure out the world for the rest of humanity. you dont have to save anyone from themselves.

and you have no idea what awaits on the other end of that tunnel, so i wouldnt worry about expecting a lot of people to explain yourself to... or whatever...

think of yourself and what you want out of life from your own perspective... get all those other people out of your head.

reply to post by BohemianBrim

it doesnt matter what you do or say the end result will be the same, some indian guru said.It depends where you position yourself on the paper. Its neti neti neither this nor neither that. We have thought but after all they are just thoughts. Thoughts are never fully true, only reflections. Why would we get upset with a reflection? but we do. It when there is no reflection that, nothing occurs.
as you say why worry?do your best to be effortlesly happy.How can that be done?

reply to post by ancientthunder


To be effortlessly happy take away the effort. It is the effort that is the work. The working toward happiness is the denial of happiness now. The belief that you can work it out, the belief that there is anything to work out, is the root of all unhappiness.
As BohemianBrim asks "What if you don't have figure any of it out?" What if it is art and not a puzzle?
What are we trying to figure out, work out? Life? It is already, we don't need to do a thing. It is all done but we get to watch it, see it, feel it, know it. You are the all seeing, all knowing, everpresent eye that gets to see this thing we name existance.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
reply to post by NorEaster

 

ive re-read your reply a few times, and the "problem" or roadblock or whatever you want to say, that i believe you are having is this illusion of "other people".

what do "other people" matter to YOU, to the "I AM" behind your own eyes?

i would try to see "other people" as lessons to learn from, not crutches for support. you dont need them to live your life your own way unless you were planning on living it up on their shoulders. and forget trying to learn directly from someone else because the only voice you should be listening to is the voice inside your head, every other voice is subjective towards its own perspective, not yours.
we have evolved a bit beyond the need for herd mentality, we can take care of our own souls, our own minds.

you dont need to do anything for them, or against them. thats kinda what i mean here. you dont have to figure out the world for the rest of humanity. you dont have to save anyone from themselves.

and you have no idea what awaits on the other end of that tunnel, so i wouldnt worry about expecting a lot of people to explain yourself to... or whatever...

think of yourself and what you want out of life from your own perspective... get all those other people out of your head.

edit on 12-12-2011 by BohemianBrim because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-12-2011 by BohemianBrim because: (no reason given)

Well thats a fine "belief" but it doesnt jibe with reality. The truth is that the person you become, no matter how different you are from your parents, is influenced by your interactions with them. Not just them though, any person who has ever been apart of your life for an extended period of time. And more than likely a few strangers made some dents in you as well. So at the end of the day, they DID matter in the creation of your self identity your "I AM." Perhaps you have reached a point where you try to no longer let others influence who you are, you may have reached that point. But at the end of the day, you did not become who you are on your own.

I would also add, that since we are social primates we cannot have evolved past the point of herd mentality, it will always be with us.

reply to post by acmpnsfal


The character that you call yourself has indeed many traits of parents and other conditioning from culture and society. However there is a deeper layer that has no conditioning, it just watches the character and surrounding enviroment, the thoughts and sensations that are constantly appearing, this is sometimes refered to as the 'I am'.
There is no real separation between the two (the character and the 'I am') but the 'I am' is the calm silent one, if you sit with that one and just watch (observe) the world changes.
The character is the one that can be herded, enslaved, and if you can see/watch the character then you can not be the character because you are the 'observer'.

Reply to post by Itisnowagain

Sorry I dont agree with that at all. While it is true that one can remove themself from the 'monkey mind' in order to take a backseat and watch their thoughts, this is not removed from the actual self. When you analyze the thoughts you watched you are still doing it from the perspective of the person you became as a result of past interactions and information. Most people use that practice as a to learn control over their thoughts. There is no part of you that is untouched by your experiences. Even if you are referring to some kind of soul.....people tend to say their soul is the reason they react to certain situations the way they do...even killers. So either there are good and bad souls....or the 'soul' is also conditioned.


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Originally posted by BohemianBrim
reply to post by NorEaster

 

ive re-read your reply a few times, and the "problem" or roadblock or whatever you want to say, that i believe you are having is this illusion of "other people".

what do "other people" matter to YOU, to the "I AM" behind your own eyes?

The human being is inherently a communal beast, and always has been. You can deny it, but that doesn't change the fact of it. I exist, and all the people that I have met exist. You exist, and all the people that you meet and experience exist. It's not an illusion. I'm well aware of the philosophical arguments against such an obvious existential tenet, but they're only philosophical arguments, and nothing more. Like theological arguments, philosophical assertions are created by the mind of the presenter of those assertions - whether as original thought, or as translated information that the presenter has adopted as his/her own view. They can demand whatever they like of reality, but once they've closed their mouths, they - and everyone else that exists as corporeal human beings - return immediately to the reality of their feet on the floor; air pressing lightly against their flesh; an annoyingly consistent world that dismisses their intellectual preeminence, laid out before their eyes; and most of the very same people continuing their progressive interactions with them, as the limits of plausible potential refuse to expand in deference to those brilliant debate points.

Go ahead and test it for yourself. Really. I have no concern that you'll ever be able to debunk the independent reality that contains you as part of its collective whole. And that includes those illusionary people you mentioned.

i would try to see "other people" as lessons to learn from, not crutches for support. you dont need them to live your life your own way unless you were planning on living it up on their shoulders. and forget trying to learn directly from someone else because the only voice you should be listening to is the voice inside your head, every other voice is subjective towards its own perspective, not yours.
we have evolved a bit beyond the need for herd mentality, we can take care of our own souls, our own minds.

I agree, but there is a danger in keeping only your own council. Generally speaking, that is. If I'm focused only on myself, then I can imagine that my own council is more than adequate, but if I'm looking at this issue from a larger perspective - which is generally the only way I can (yes, likely a personality disorder of some sort) - then I must look at the potential ramifications of such a practice on the lives (and afterlives) of a much broader swath of the human population. Here's a quick example of how such a siloed approach can be devastating for a fairly typical human being in our modern society.

Kid grows up in the bible belt (SouthEast section the USA) and has been taught from birth that certain life choices will result in pissing off God and an eternity of damnation (usually including lakes of fire and gnashing of teeth). The kid discovers - to his horror - that he doesn't have the proper kind of attraction for the opposite sex and definitely the wrong kind of attraction for those of his own sex. Okay, so he fights it, but deep inside, he knows that Jesus condemns the very thought of such things, and that those terrible thoughts alone will send him to Hell in the end.

He fights this demon his whole life, and maybe anyone else would see his as a victory over his abhorrent inclinations, but sadly, he's not one of those who can see it that way. He dies, and what else can he ever expect of the hereafter but Hell, fiery lakes and the sounds of tooth gnashing keeping him up all night? The truth is that due to the nature of perception and powerful expectation, this guys a goner - and lost to a Hell construct of his own making - unless he's diverted by someone else as he crosses and dutifully sent to their version of Hell. Either way, he's gone forever, and just as he expected he'd be.

If he'd learned about the nature of perception and reality, he wouldn't have been vulnerable to any of what I've described.

oops ran out of room.

reply to post by acmpnsfal


You have stated that when you analyze the thoughts you watched you are still doing it from the perspective of the person you became as a result of past interactions and information, this is true.
Don't analyze the thoughts, just watch them. The analyzer is still thought that has been conditioned, so yes you are right, it is the conditioned person.
If the thoughts are seen, what is it that sees the thoughts? Awareness.
Awareness is present before any thought arises. Be aware of the awareness.

Okay...part II of my response.....

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
reply to post by NorEaster

 

you dont need to do anything for them, or against them. thats kinda what i mean here. you dont have to figure out the world for the rest of humanity. you dont have to save anyone from themselves.

I'm not concerned for the rest of humanity. I'm just concerned for those beautiful individuals that live with the curse of a personal world that's decided that they are just not deserving of ultimate happiness - for whatever reason. People grind up their "loved ones" and we all know it's true. People are always defined by the ones closest to them, and too many are destroyed by those they look to for personal definition. Maybe you've transcended this impact on your selfhood, or maybe you were always blessed with supportive others, but you aren't who I'm concerned about.

I became a predator of predators since killing off the impact of the malevolent people that inspired me to see myself as much less than I actually was. For years, I targeted that very finite and specific form of predator, but the supply of those freaks is endless. Truth is, you can't change the world or anyone's life by killing off the destructive people that litter the planet, so I've taken to empowering the vulnerable people that those sick animals target with their wide range of tactics and strategies.

In the last 6 years or so, I discovered how to fully transform the lives of decent and honest people - especially those who've suffered at the hands of less honorable people who generally line their kind up for "taking down a few pegs". And it's just information - nothing more or less.

and you have no idea what awaits on the other end of that tunnel, so i wouldnt worry about expecting a lot of people to explain yourself to... or whatever...

I don't know what awaits each person as they cross, but I do know what can mitigate a tragedy if one is confronted (presented as reality to the passing person) as the individual emerges from the "tunnel". That, I do know, and that's all anyone needs to know. Once that knowledge has been internalized, the hereafter can be whatever the individual viscerally allows to be possible. 100% perception, with no reality anchors. No limits on how wonderful (or horrible) it can be for each and every human being.

think of yourself and what you want out of life from your own perspective... get all those other people out of your head.

edit on 12-12-2011 by BohemianBrim because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-12-2011 by BohemianBrim because: (no reason given)

And this is why you expend the effort to challenge my view of reality? Because you've gotten all those people out of your head? People like me? If you actually feel this way, then why would you ever bother trying to convince me - or anyone at all - of your point of view? Why would you even be posting in this forum? What would you care that anyone else believes what they believe? Why even log on and read the threads?

My brother is a corporate VP, and he has no concern for anyone/anything other than himself, his career, his immediate family (wife and kids) and his investment portfolio. He's living exactly the life you suggest, and you'd never find him wasting his time on stuff like this, because he honestly doesn't give a damn about "other people". He's got his notion about what God is and doesn't care if anyone else accepts it or not. He thinks of himself and what he wants out of life. He's never had all those other people in his head.

You, my friend, can claim what you like, but you betray your own concern with your actions in this thread. Actually, the very fact that you're in this thread debunks your assertion that you have achieved any freedom from the opinions of others. Hell, you blew that cover as soon as you posted.

Maybe you have no idea who you are deep inside and what really matters to you?

reply to post by BohemianBrim


i think ur background is right but im sure ur gonna reject that im right too for what i have to answer from myself to the op, while there cant b two different entities of right lols

u could b right in where u could mean ur absolute freedom from all and especially from ur true free sense as being the free constant right one

i agree with that premise but from my observations i was always that free right only while i saw how that right is abused not by others but by all objective life ruled through surprising hidden powers

then i had to react since im that right only by realizing all and any else rights for the least of right concept that i mean to b, but then i realized that not only the right is abused but also the freedom even when u forced ur right, the freedom cannot be while it is nothing objectively,

so even in meaning nothing at all objectively while aware of many different points u r out of free really as truly, logically u should be witnessing how that nothing is realized positively, but no, there is worse conditions there more then outside based on objective rights abuse, and the more active u r to conceive the zero right free sense out of nothing the more conditions powers are enslaving u directly

so the conclusion is not hell but worse then that, all is disgusting everywhere there is no point right even in concept, even nothing is continuously struggling and humiliated, monsters gods are eating all always and there is no nothing anymore only them and their lives through evil ways

what i also realized is my reaction still to that fact, kind of choice for truth so not a true choice, where i must stand for myself free right in witnessing how myself free realities rights is the only thing normal that deserve my consideration in witnessing it out

then i became more free as free from truth even since truth is allowing that to happen while it shouldnt get there, and how can anything superior or truly constant handle to let that b
i cant get that across at all, of course i cant do anything and i dont matter at all, but that is irrelevent to the point

purposes dont matter but only in agonizing or situation of extreme needs, what matter is the fact that there is no fact, only abuses and evil absolute rules and most disgusting constancies all through lies powers and creations life

so i will never return to the state where i didnt know that where i thought that all is of truth existing or relatively at least

i keep not understanding how i can give so many answers while not a point is of, how there is not one right even nor one thing constant as positive thing from all what is constantly done and obviously existing always

reply to post by absolutely


we were always thrown in wc but unconscious and they put us asleep just awake us for games, creations is from billions generations while u dont belong but to dirt things unconscious left as such or tortures and slaveries of hells forced, just this life while life is from ever started from such deformation of souls livings through evil powerful gods existence, and everyday worse shape for sure

how is that happening how is that a fact for us how there is no instance we can return to how we are aware and absolutely destroyed by force how we must witness our worse destruction till its end, how that is an equation of any truth