American Soldier: We even shot women and children!

Originally posted by fanoose

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Marines do take prisoners. We have a policy of not shooting enemies who are surrendering or civilians.

(Some Graphic contents there)

• Got a Quarter? I want to play "Murder, American Style!" (video)
  This recent footage (probably January 2004) was obtained by ABC news. It demonstrates just how aloof murder has become to US military forces in Iraq (and, you wonder why the suicide rate is up).
  
  It is claimed that the three humans shown in the footage are insurgents. Well, if the war is over, then they are guilty of crimes. The US government is spending a small fortune in an effort to establish a judicial system in Iraq. Perhaps the solution should be to maintain surveillance, contact ground forces and arrest these �perpetrators�. Instead, the two pilots on this Apache AH-64 helicopter (see Apache Down ), perhaps with encouragement from some remote observer, administer �justice� in a way that has become common in this �high tech war�.
  
  The weapon of choice is a 30mm cannon (each shell is over an inch in diameter) with a very high rate of fire. You can see the destructive force, quite clearly.
  
  As you watch the following footage, note how the injured person is given �no mercy�, in fact, the one voice insists that he be taken out before the second vehicle.
  
  Is there any wonder that the Iraqis are turning against �their saviors�?
  
  
  
• Murder, American Style - Shoot them while they're down (video)
  Rules of war; reason and humanity provide that if an enemy is down, injured and incapable of causing you harm, you derive the greatest benefit by capturing a prisoner of war. This provides intelligence information; is how you would prefer to be treated, and fits, very well, the character of America, as we would all like to envision it.
  
  This assumes that you know if the injured person is an enemy soldier, though that cannot be ascertained by the video you are about to see.
  
  ay close attention to what is coming. You should, as an American, be appalled by the blatant -- and gleeful -- murder of another human being that posed no threat, at all, to the jubilant murderer.
  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is a grenade launcher to the left of the screen right? And that is the preferred weapon for bringing down Apache helicoptor's by Iraqi's right?

Women and children can be dangerous too. Guns arent that heavy and grenades weigh even less.


By the way that video was AMESOME!!!!!

[edit on 9/7/2004 by verfed]

To be honest there are no weapons in sight on that video. The thing on the left is clearly a tractor with a ground tiller, two trucks, none of the three men have weapons, and when shooting starts guy on tractor is waving cloth material.

Whether or not these guys are related to insurgency you can't say from the video. From the video alone it looks like three unarmed farmers were shot.

I question if this was taken in Iraq anyway. It looks more like anti-narco activity.

Originally posted by fanoose
[url=http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/images/apache%20murder.mpeg]
[url=http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/images/killwoundediraqi.wmv]

There are no crimes in either of these videos, that I can see. I used to watch those Huey and Cobra gunships shoot 'em up in Vietnam. Those pilots are a wonder to behold. It might look like a video game to you fanoose, but that's just the the video. That's real in 3-D, full color and surround sound. You can see how powerful those 20mm HE cannon shells are.

The Marines in the second video did the best thing by dispatching this individual post haste. He was showing no signs of surrender and the chance that he might be booby trapped or pull a weapon was too great. The reaction by the Marines was pretty typical as an immediate reaction. Most troops feel a big let down after they make their first kill, when the adrenaline rush subsides, some puke. C'est la guerre.

Originally posted by koji_K
Oh my God! This man is a traitor! String him up! Let's hope he never runs for president...

-koji K.

He's not a traitor! He is the enemy! Has always been the enemy from the very beginning!

Am I by myself when I say I'd like to get my hands grasped around this guys throat for about 5 seconds?

For all we know, this peice of crap could be, that jackass [expletive]ing Osama!

P.S. Who the hell is this guy, saying we got to play by the rules of war? Let us see their rule book! Oh, we all know what their rules are; kill EVERYONE from tiny infants to disabled elderly, and everyone in between, if they don't denounce Jesus Christ and Chsistianity, and follow their Satan worshipping cult.

I'm in contact with our fighting men and women constantly, and the dirt they wash off their bodies at the end of a hard days work, contains more morals and righteousness than the entire Islamic world put together!

I'm getting off the thread before I destroy something here!

[edit on 7/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Intelearthling,

It's ok to be upset but don't blame the entire Islam nation and remember we have muslin Americans in the US and they have nothing to do with what is going on with the Islamic radicals, these group are acting on their own and have their own agendas and Allah is just another name for the same god of Christianity so don't let your anger cloud your senses.

This is the dumbest thing ever. Civilians die in war all the time. Its like saying guess what we have recieved breaking news that the sky is blue.

Originally posted by Intelearthling


P.S. Who the hell is this guy, saying we got to play by the rules of war? Let us see their rule book! Oh, we all know what their rules are; kill EVERYONE from tiny infants to disabled elderly, and everyone in between, if they don't denounce Jesus Christ and Chsistianity, and follow their Satan worshipping cult.

[edit on 7/9/04 by Intelearthling]

if we sink to their tactics in fighting, then why bother fighting them to beging with? we may as well just join them.

-koji K.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
P.S. Who the hell is this guy, saying we got to play by the rules of war? Let us see their rule book! Oh, we all know what their rules are; kill EVERYONE from tiny infants to disabled elderly, and everyone in between, if they don't denounce Jesus Christ and Chsistianity, and follow their Satan worshipping cult.

Intelearthling is usually more measured in his responses. I think this response, even though it is unreasonable, is far better than the self-righteous tongue-clucking posts of some. At least it has some passion.

What happened before these shots in the video?
Where did the convoy come from?
Were the "insurgents" followed to this spot of fire?
And do you mean "Blackhawk Down"?

[edit on 7-9-2004 by LL1]

Originally posted by taibunsuu
To be honest there are no weapons in sight on that video. The thing on the left is clearly a tractor with a ground tiller, two trucks, none of the three men have weapons, and when shooting starts guy on tractor is waving cloth material.

Whether or not these guys are related to insurgency you can't say from the video. From the video alone it looks like three unarmed farmers were shot.

I question if this was taken in Iraq anyway. It looks more like anti-narco activity.

They seem to exchange the traditional Muslim hug/kiss as they initially greet one another.

Wounded men can shoot you in the back as you walk by. A dead enemy is a lot easier to deal with then a wounded enemy. There is less paper work involved. Those marines did the right and most efficient thing.

Originally posted by LL1

Originally posted by taibunsuu
To be honest there are no weapons in sight on that video. The thing on the left is clearly a tractor with a ground tiller, two trucks, none of the three men have weapons, and when shooting starts guy on tractor is waving cloth material.

Whether or not these guys are related to insurgency you can't say from the video. From the video alone it looks like three unarmed farmers were shot.

I question if this was taken in Iraq anyway. It looks more like anti-narco activity.

They seem to exchange the traditional Muslim hug/kiss as they initially greet one another.

Iraq also not known for its cold and its farm industry. This could be Afghanistan and a poppy field for all we know. While it's very disturbing, debating the video is difficult because the context of the situation is completely unknown. The guy seemed to be changing clothes. He could have been getting ready for cold ride on tractor, or perhaps he was just involved in firefights with nearby troops and was hoping they could hop on tractor and avoid detection, but chopper was responding to fight and tracked them there. Anything's possible, all we know is that 3 guys who appear innocent were blown away.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Marines do take prisoners. We have a policy of not shooting enemies who are surrendering or civilians.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Fanoose, do you really think that if there were no insurgency that civilians would be killed? Or do you think GIs are just running around like SS 'cleaners' who were wasting entire villages of Ukrainians in WW2?

!????? can you make up your mind!

Originally posted by taibunsuu
That guy got hit by 30mm frag rounds. On the infrared you could see him dragging intestines 10' behind him. Entire lower half of body disintegrated. Finishing him off was probably a lot kinder than it was cruel.

Does this even sound convincing let alone righteous!?

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Iraq also not known for its cold and its farm industry. This could be Afghanistan and a poppy field for all we know. While it's very disturbing, debating the video is difficult because the context of the situation is completely unknown. The guy seemed to be changing clothes. He could have been getting ready for cold ride on tractor, or perhaps he was just involved in firefights with nearby troops and was hoping they could hop on tractor and avoid detection, but chopper was responding to fight and tracked them there. Anything's possible, all we know is that 3 guys who appear innocent were blown away.

Iraq is very cold in the winter, very cold that we call it a dry cold, it could freeze & incision your bones, also you need to heat the water because it gets freezed. And no its not in Afghanistan its in iraq, at least thats what ABC news said. Even if its in Afghanistan, killing in cold blood someone surrendering is an bestial tactic.

Originally posted by nathraq
Fanoose, the Apache video was covered here months ago. They were insurgents, hiding weapons in a field, to be used against US and Iraqi forces later. Graphic as it might be, that's the price of war.

Every iraqie citizen is an insurgent should we kill all iraqies, beside he surrendered.

Originally posted by marg6043
but then again we don't have witnesses to tell their side of the story. Right?

And thats the problem, they don't tell you anything, they are always covering their acts.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I posted an article about this poor soul the other day. If he committed these atrocities

poor soul /= If he committed these atrocities
Sorry but cant make a connection here . . . The footage was obtained by ABC news.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
It might look like a video game to you fanoose, but that's just the the video. That's real in 3-D, full color and surround sound. You can see how powerful those 20mm HE cannon shells are.

I'm not the one who said "video game" but Gary Hunt @ Outpost of Freedom did! you can read it here at the bottom of the page.

Originally posted by verfed
By the way that video was AMESOME!!!!!

That was sick comment .

[edit on 8-9-2004 by fanoose]

Civilians are casualties of war.
The only thing you can do is try and minimize the number of civilians killed.

Originally posted by fanoose
........killing in cold blood someone surrendering is an bestial tactic.........

What single action in either video gave you the slightest indication that they were giving up? I guess this will be a warning to you make damn sure that you make at least some kind of effort to make sure the other guy realizes you are surrendering.....or it just might be the last thing you do. As graphic as that video is what would you have them do? Neither individual made a gesture that I could see, what did you see that indicated they were surrendering�.or do you feel that the marines should have to leave cover and ask each individual before firing if it is their intention to surrender.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
To be honest there are no weapons in sight on that video. The thing on the left is clearly a tractor with a ground tiller, two trucks, none of the three men have weapons, and when shooting starts guy on tractor is waving cloth material.

Whether or not these guys are related to insurgency you can't say from the video. From the video alone it looks like three unarmed farmers were shot.

I question if this was taken in Iraq anyway. It looks more like anti-narco activity.

This is not the whole video (forgive me if you all know this already) It's over 3 min long and in the beginning you can see the insurgent running across the field with the rocket launcher in a bag and throw it down. Just before the second guy gets wasted behind the tractor you can see him trying in vain to pull the launcher out of the bag it's in.

Originally posted by flashburn

Originally posted by taibunsuu
To be honest there are no weapons in sight on that video. The thing on the left is clearly a tractor with a ground tiller, two trucks, none of the three men have weapons, and when shooting starts guy on tractor is waving cloth material.

Whether or not these guys are related to insurgency you can't say from the video. From the video alone it looks like three unarmed farmers were shot.

I question if this was taken in Iraq anyway. It looks more like anti-narco activity.

This is not the whole video (forgive me if you all know this already) It's over 3 min long and in the beginning you can see the insurgent running across the field with the rocket launcher in a bag and throw it down. Just before the second guy gets wasted behind the tractor you can see him trying in vain to pull the launcher out of the bag it's in.

Well, I've watched the video many times, and I don't see a bag with a rocket launcher in it. I'm very familiar with all types of rocket launchers. I see him trying in vain to wave cloth material. What an insurgent is going to do with a rocket launcher against a pitch black sky from which 30mm death is coming at the cyclic rate, I have no idea. This isn't to implicate the guys firing, we really have no idea what happened immediately before the video starts. In the video itself I see absolutely no weaponry.

I am not saying the Marine did right or wrong, but to enlighten you who haven't put the ole ass in the grass, being where the bullets fly sure isn't like any John Wayne war movie you've ever seen. Now I don't know if this is true or not, but I was told that women and children can pull triggers, pull pins, and the rest of the stuff. When this happens the act of survivability takes over. As I stated before, I was told this.

Any one care to show the differevce between a terrorist and a soldier now?

I cant see one... hang on one of them has a "job"!