Humanizing/Dehumanizing the Messiah....what do you actually expect....

I hesitate to post this but I think the the one raised up or coming back is us to ourselves. What good is religion if it doesn't lift the people up or give people the tools to create? I think that the times of peace spoken of coincides with the Aquarian age that is upon us. A time to dissolves the lines that separate us from each other and our planet wherever those lines are to be found. A view of the world as our neighbor not just the person who lives down the street from us. "Be ye as Gods" will have literal meaning. The Messiah will be us in the highest sense of the word. The squabbling will be over. We will have taken responsibility for the things we've done to each other and to our planet. We will all realize we embody the Spirit of Divinity inside and finally use it to make a far better world than we now know.

We are the One we have been told is coming which is why it hasn't happened yet. Cause we have not grasped that.

Dear OP,

1. If you have faith just ask yourself - what is this thing called 'religion'?

When you have done your own research and comprehension, you will realize that simply put, it is a set of rules and guideline to help us out of the jungles to co-exist with another in peace, sharing responsibilities to progress and evolve beyond our natural barbaric tendercies that our early ancestors had.


2. Then look around you at your fellow humans. Are they any different from you? Do they breathe, bleed and love the same as you? This question is to let you comprehend that we all indeed came from the same common Creator, or we would have been built differently in DNA aspects.


3. Study human history of civilisation and see how we mankind evolved from eons past till the present. Study how separated our ancestors were, with no knowledge of science to overcome geological barriers until these late centuries, and yet, those separated living beings are no different from us physically and do know about 'religion' to evolve beyond the caves and jungles, living within communities that one could still call 'societies', bounded by societal rules. Ask yourself, WHO taught them?


We mankind came from the same commom Creator who is known by many names across geological bounderies, time and space. But unfortunately, having been given free will, we mankind corrupt what had been taught to us, to suit our own selfish desires, time and time again, even to the extent of mis-using His name for our own ends and exclusivity. Thus the sufferings in our world.

The Messiah was never exclusive in his dealing with mankind. He was inclusive. He healed all whom had faith in our Creator, not just jews, and led those whom had guilt in their lives to seek for forgiveness and redemption from our Creator.

We are all His creations, and are His children. No son is greater than the Father, so too was our Messiah, whom was sent here as His messenger to help our ancestors at their stage of progress and evolution. The Messiah seek not for self worship, glory or fame.

He came as an ordinary mortal so that we mankind - rich or poor, intelligent or fool, can relate to his words, to lead us back to our Creator's love - to harm or hurt no one and to leave none behind as we evolve and progress with the free will given to us all. It is our Creator, that the Messiah seeks for us to return to, and be more discerning of words by men whom are given free will, espacially the selfish, for our common progress and evolution to fulfill our destiny.

Our Creator's gift of life, love and free will lives within us all. The Messiah's teachings - his words and every divine Teachers' words, are readily avaliable for those whom sought to find. The True Church/Mosque/Temple, etc lays inside our hearts, and not upon some piece of rock or grand structure made by man.

It is now up to us to fulfill our Creator's destiny for us, which is never about destruction, but only egalitarian progress and evolution to the stars.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
The most fundamental instruction in the Bible, the command which God gives to the Israelites before he says anything else, is "You shall have no other gods but me".

This is an interesting commandment. It was given to Moses on a mountain away from the view of anyone else. Then brought down the mountain on stone tablets and delivered to the people by Moses.

Now when Moses read this to the people, where did he point?

"You shall have no other gods but me". Then what?

Did he point to the burning bush and that represented God?

Was it the tablet?

Moses himself?

What should Moses tell the people if they ask who gave the commandments?

It is great to say there is only ONE God. However, it helps to be able to identify that God should you ever meet a stranger with strange customs who just might actually worship that same God in his own tongue and own ways.

The Hebrew God did confound the languages afterall.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

No, because the next commandment is about not making physical representations.
I think he pointed first to the name; a name meaning "the one who is, the one who lives, the one who brings life", and from there identified him as the source of life and everything that is.
From there, the additional identification of "the one who speaks through Moses and the other prophets".
In other words, the God of the Bible- which is the point we started from.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
What should Moses tell the people if they ask who gave the commandments?

Exodus ch4 vv13-15.
Question asked and answered.

There is only ONE Creator, and he loves us all INCLUSIVELY, gave us life, intelligence, free will and most of all Love amongst many other gifts - jews, christians, muslims, hindus, etc, even atheists, whom are only yet to know Him and His love.

In our times of need throughout our civilisation, He had never abandoned or given up on us, even as we are seduced by overwelhming greed time after time.

This would be a song He would want you to hear.

reply to post by Drala


I believe the "walking on water" thing was added to the story to further push the idea that "their God" was the best one out of the many at the time.

IF Jesus returns in the flesh no one will recognise him... and most will laugh, as people do on these forums when it comes to "believers"

On the other hand IF he returns in the spirit.... I believe hes already here

And within all life that exists.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Drala
I would assure you I have wondered far far away form the new testament....into every corner of every religion....there is nothing to fear in them that the father cannot protect you from...you must have the faith to walk through the valley...

That is where you are going wrong. The Biblical religion is not something that can be mixed with other religions.
The most fundamental instruction in the Bible, the command which God gives to the Israelites before he says anything else, is "You shall have no other gods but me".
That is what the Father actually says.
So once you start mixing the Biblical religion with other religions, you are choosing against the Father, because you are ignoring his most fundamental instruction.
The logical options are between accepting the Bible's approach, or rejecting it and choosing some other approach.
Trying to mix the two is not a logical option, because the Bible itself is against it.

Similarly with the name of Christ.
The New Testament is our source of information about Jesus, as the Christ.
It's the only reason we've got for believing that there is a Christ.
So there's no point in using the concept of "Christ" unless we accept the New Testament understanding of him. It's meaningless outside that context.
The New Testament says absolutely nothing about a Christ reincarnating or having a genetic memory.
What it does say, on the other hand, is;
"This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven".
Acts ch1 v11
THIS Jesus. Not anyone else.

THank you for the advice, perhaps it is time I return to the New testament...you could be bringing me another message from our father

Yes, do consider that possibilty and take it seriously. But remember that the Biblical religion cannot be mixed with other religions, because that is part of the fundamental definition of the Biblical religion.
It is one or the other; all or nothing.

edit on 13-12-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Without drawing lines in the sand here, your heart is far to closed...notice the willingness to accept you might be bring a message of god, yet you could never consider I may offer a mirror to you...

the new testament you reference....its a very very young book, and has been translated and edited far too many times....the truth of GOD is in ALL...And if you suggest the lord is not in everything, including the hearts of your fellow man...then you are far from where you are trying to get theologically....the whole point of the teaching of Christ is balance...not the absolution of one above the other....the reason why GOD is the ONE is because its everything....even the arms of those religions you fear...they are just the arms of god reaching to embrace you....

You folow the interpretations of interpretation of interpretations if you only focus on The new testament...How many Bibles were there??? OPEN THE HEART.... embrace your brothers..


If you entertain the ideas in others beliefs, do you not have faith you will have the wisdom to know the difference? The gift of the father is knowing this right from wrong feel and no religion has all the answers, WE MUST UNITE....with the light of your heart you will find your way. You have allowed yourself to listen to the teaching of others...not the Christ....there is ONE GOD that contains all....but there are pieces of this pattern in everything...OPEN YOUR EYES...GOD IS EVERYWHERE...even in the darkest places...as I said darkness is just a lack of light....there is still light in everything...its your refusal to look that makes it darker....

I appreciate the steadfast mentality you have toward the new testament...but lets get real, its written by 66 people so thats atleast 65 others that might not really be the best to listen to....and as the new version were evolving the ruling govt got to influence its contents...Most people have never heard of Enoch or even the Jesus had a brother James....And PAULs influence in the new testament is very questionable....

THe new testament contains so much truth, but its is also tainted with lies. All the religions have been tainted, you have to over lay the patterns in all the religions to truly begin to see GOD....the truth comes to the top when you are willing to learn from your brothers....until then you will never truly know...

Sorry to be blunt...you can be steadfast and tolerant, you can listen to your fellow man and learn from eachother for we are all made in his image and therefore unwillingness to learn from one another is like denying the god we defend so adamantly...

Do you not think your brother will defend his GOD as you would yours?? Its the same GOD...# WAKE UP...the little gods are within the greater...we can be god to anything below us in the pattern....but any god above us is...well above us...ITS LIKE MUSIC SCALE....and the BIG GOD is the original tone... imagine how loud the BIG BANG WAS then divide octaves....

again I feel I should hedge this, but at the same time I think it might be needed to make an impact on you...I hope this actually makes you open up to others, even if you dislike me for a small while

I will stop pursuing this with you, I am sorry if this seems cruel, but time is short....WAKE UP!

Originally posted by Drala
...the reason why GOD is the ONE is because its everything....even the arms of those religions you fear...they are just the arms of god reaching to embrace you....

You cannot say they are the Biblical God, because the Biblical God denies it.
The commandment is clear and straight-forward- "You shall have no other gods but me".
That statement clearly means "There are other gods which are not-Me, and I want you to have nothing to do with them.
You can have other gods if you like, but you can't combine them with the Biblical God, because the Biblical God won't have it.

Fear has nothing to do with it. It's about faithfulness. If a man tells his wife that he wants her to be faithful, he does not mean that he wants her to prostitute herself with all and sundry, and he will not accept "but I saw you in all these other men" as an excuse.

It is also about logic. Logic says that incompatible things cannot be combined.
A God who says "You shall have no other gods but me" is not compatible with other gods.

If you do not accept the Biblical source of the concept of messiah and the constraints that go with that, then you have no rational reason for believing in any kind of messiah. You haven't got any other source.

The 'Biblical' version of our common Creator, who is known by many names, is fortunate to have survive numerous centuries of education which any human today would call it nothing short of a miracle if not the Will of our Creator Himself, for the western civilisation that He had given the task of progress.

But can it be said that only the 'Biblical' version is the 'sole' version, and any other is 'false', even if the aspect of 'religion' by a Creator, which are in reality rules and guidelines for better social behaviour within civilised societies are similar and common in many respects, in this day and age of awakening?

'Cast out the plank in your own eye, then shall you see clearly to remove the splinter in your brother's eye' , so said the Messiah.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
But can it be said that only the 'Biblical' version is the 'sole' version, and any other is 'false',

All I am saying, in this thread, is that the Biblical version is incompatible (by definition) with other versions.
One or the other- but not both.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by IAMIAM
What should Moses tell the people if they ask who gave the commandments?

Exodus ch4 vv13-15.
Question asked and answered.

Not to pick....but REALLY you said this....So there's no point in using the concept of "Christ" unless we accept the New Testament understanding of him. It's meaningless outside that context

reply to post by Drala

I don't understand what you're getting at.
Yes, the concept of CHRIST is a New Testament concept.
Yes, when asked for the name of GOD, which is a concept running through the whole Bible, I quoted the Old Testament. The dialogue with that person had got off the specific subject of Christ.
And?

Originally posted by Drala
...HE isn't here to die for your sins again...I assure you of that...

I agree with you on this point.
The idea that he is here or will be here " to die for our sins again" is no part of Christian belief, and no part of what I said, so I'm not sure why you're denying it.
The New Testament expectation is "returning as judge".

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Drala
...the reason why GOD is the ONE is because its everything....even the arms of those religions you fear...they are just the arms of god reaching to embrace you....

You cannot say they are the Biblical God, because the Biblical God denies it.
The commandment is clear and straight-forward- "You shall have no other gods but me".
That statement clearly means "There are other gods which are not-Me, and I want you to have nothing to do with them.

Yes, there are other gods besides the giver of life. They go by many names.

Here is a short list.

The Bible
The Quran
The Torah
YhWh
Allah
Jesus
Brahma
Vishnu
Money

Anything that is without life, does not represent life.

Just saying. Even the commandments themselves become a God if they are held higher than that which lives.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Drala

 

Yes, the concept of CHRIST is a New Testament concept.
Yes, when asked for the name of GOD, which is a concept running through the whole Bible, I quoted the Old Testament. The dialogue with that person had got off the specific subject of Christ.
And?

edit on 13-12-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

That's where you confusion or perhaps robotic belief system failed you.

The concept of New Testament was NEVER about the Messiah. He was a child of our Creator and a divine messenger. His mission in that lifetime was AS A Messenger, to spread the CONCEPT of our Creator.

In otherwords, it IS ABOUT OUR CREATOR, a return to Him, never the messenger.

The Messiah spoke in parables, but is often about logic and reason, for he is a child of our Creator, and in His likeness was he created, thus there is logic and reason in what our Creator had done and recorded both in the old and new testaments, even if the science of it is still unknown today as we flawed humans realized that we are not the epitome of ALL scientific comprehension, as well as in every recorded sacred holy book by other ethnic groups whom too are equally the children of our Creator.

Calm down. This is only a discussion to shed better light and more comprehension on the teachings of our Creator for our civilisation, with our current more open and free study than our ancestors ever had.

Originally posted by Drala
Not to pick....but REALLY you said this....So there's no point in using the concept of "Christ" unless we accept the New Testament understanding of him. It's meaningless outside that context

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Drala
...the reason why GOD is the ONE is because its everything....even the arms of those religions you fear...they are just the arms of god reaching to embrace you....

I'll point for point you here for a joke..

You cannot say they are the Biblical God, because the Biblical God denies it.
The commandment is clear and straight-forward- "You shall have no other gods but me".
That statement clearly means "There are other gods which are not-Me, and I want you to have nothing to do with them.
You can have other gods if you like, but you can't combine them with the Biblical God, because the Biblical God won't have it. **Notice you shall have no god that are not-Me...all the little god are expressions of god...its like folder divisions...the ROUTE FOLDER is GOD and the sub folders are litte gods and we are in there too, in a folder also so to speak....and we are gods to any folder under us in the tree...What do you think the tree of life is about???THe question is are we acting as a tolerant GOD in our own kingdoms

Fear has nothing to do with it. It's about faithfulness. If a man tells his wife that he wants her to be faithful, he does not mean that he wants her to prostitute herself with all and sundry, and he will not accept "but I saw you in all these other men" as an excuse.**Are you married....would you "ALLOW" you wife to "TALK" to another man....did you give me that one on purpose? That's almost to obvious
....women can make their own choices....and if they married in love...i doubt he will have to worry about anything that a conversation may lead to...it is about fear....and jealousy...

It is also about logic. Logic says that incompatible things cannot be combined.
A God who says "You shall have no other gods but me" is not compatible with other gods...LOL you really do not get it....the others are GOD too...You telling GOD he didn't create all of this? OK.....g'luck with that...I can put in a good word for you, but I doubt he will listen to you....I think he will be in everything, despite your inability or unwillingness to look...

If you do not accept the Biblical source of the concept of messiah and the constraints that go with that, then you have no rational reason for believing in any kind of messiah. You haven't got any other source.***yes accept it, then take that and read another and look for paterns the same, then repeat....eventually the pattern(TRUTH) that comes out of the layers and layers of principals you see that is an effort by humans to describe various aspects of the same universal GOD...our interpretations are all just that, interpretations and because of this all religions are faulted because they are a creation of man....But the pattern behind the scenes, the inspiration of thought...thats where he is found, the division of languages is a challenge....and some of us are failing to learn the languages we have been divided into....can you not see the CHALLENGE....we must UNITE despite all the dividing factors....its a complicated math problem, if you keep your head in the sand like a certain bird...well you do the math

edit on 13-12-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

I don't understand how your comments relate to the passage of mine that you are quoting.
Similarly, that passage was written in the first place because i was puzzled to know what point the OP was making by quoting a previous passage.
What I'm expressing is bafflement at a series of non-sequiturs.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Drala
Not to pick....but REALLY you said this....So there's no point in using the concept of "Christ" unless we accept the New Testament understanding of him. It's meaningless outside that context