Tribulations- already starting?

Originally posted by Drala
reply to post by benrl

 

Could you please reference why you think that must occur? IMHO Once the truth is revealed totally you will see WW3 started in 1984....and its almost over. Not beginning...

What started in 1984? That is an odd choice for a start date to WWIII. Explain please.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


I'm not sure, I don't really know much about WW3, and the war you speak of, I was questioning the video i posted because most of what he is saying about the end-times comes after WW3

Originally posted by sheepzilla
reply to post by benrl

 

Honestly,
The things going down in the Middle East are probably going to be the last significant events that occur before the end. I think that when it does happen, Americans will be the last to know about it because America came after all this was written down. I mean the only relevant places in religion are east Europe and the Middle East, right? So anything happening in America is irrelevant, in a sense, and you could say that all the "Obama is the antichrist" and other stuff like that is just complete bull. But who knows.

There are arguments on both sides of that. I believe that America is one of the young lions of the merchants of tarshish, which I believe is England. I believe obummer will be re-elected in 2012 and during his second term is when the Gog-Magog war will take place. Mainly because no other president would stand aside and allow the Russian-islamic alliance to attack Israel.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


Funny, someone told me something along those lines just yesterday. Another antichrist prophecy says that Obama is one of the 7 world leaders that has a "fatal wound" that the antichrist "heals" thus making the antichrist divine. There was also some similarity between how "44" is inscribed on the shroud of tizon, and that Obama is the 44th president. I don't think this leads to Obama being the antichrist, merely one of the 7 heads of the beast, the beast being the antichrist.

reply to post by sheepzilla

As far as the Revelation understanding of "tribulation" is concerned, "the great tribulation" includes, and is partially God's response to, the intense persecution of the church.
"I share with you the tribulation"- John ch1 v9.
I don't think we can say that a prophesied "tribulation" has begun if that element isn't present.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by sheepzilla

 

As far as the Revelation understanding of "tribulation" is concerned, "the great tribulation" includes, and is partially God's response to, the intense persecution of the church.
"I share with you the tribulation"- John ch1 v9.
I don't think we can say that a prophesied "tribulation" has begun if that element isn't present.

I disagree. I believe we are living Matthew 24's birth pangs now.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


I'm not familiar with the chapter. Care to explain via a few verses or an explanation of why you disagree with him? Not being a follower of a specific religion, but I am terribly fascinated with religion as a whole.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This ties in closely with verse 11. Sometimes in looking back at history, you see some people leading movements, who years later have changed their stance. Many times we can hear many voices saying this is the way, do it this way, or this actually means that; some will follow the new teaching only to find it leads to death: not a right way that one is willing to die for, but a way that ends in death - a way that ends in people going the wrong way which ends in a dead end. Jesus speaks to the church to keep His name, keep the faith, and keep His works unto the end.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.

Famines? They abound. Earthquakes? Almost a daily occurrence. War? Rumors of war?

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Many false prophets shall rise and say "this is the way." Jesus says keep my name, keep the faith, and keep my works. "And they shall be offended" my God how can you miss this? It is the epitome of the PC generation.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Dwell on this one statement for a moment. "Inequity Abounds", is that not a description of our nation at this moment? "The love of many shall wax cold" What kind of love will encourage the wholesale slaughter of millions of unborn children? Why so many divorces? Why do parents abandon their families? Why are our elders housed in an industrial fashion instead of with loving, caring families. Love is dying, it is all about ME and MY convenience.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

We are just getting to this part in the US. It is already common, especially in islamic nations, for Christians to be tortured and killed just for being Christian.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

What started in 1984? That is an odd choice for a start date to WWIII.

In 1984 an angel told me that there was a prophecy about an end time and that it would be signaled by a archangel blowing a trumpet. The angel told me this would happen on the second and third of January, 1985.
This is not too far off from what Drala said, which is 1984. I don't think it needs to have been marked by anything in particular happening other that in a religious way, as in a certain amount of people who will be directly involved in the end time events receiving a kind of inspiration to get active and at that time. Now I am not saying this is me, or any one I know personally but other people who are not necessarily on the good side, but just necessary for end time events to happen, as in things people do in the world of religion and who it is exactly who are given the lead positions to do the work of the world powers. So, this is my explanation based on what I was told, and what I saw happen on that day and how they are related. It is a spiritual warfare and not just anyone is going to lead the war.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

The great tribulation of Matthew ch24 comes after the establishment of the "abomination of desolation", which is a kind of declaration of war on God.
Compare also the sequence at the end of Daniel; the idolatrous king begins a paroxysm of warfare, after introducing the Abomination and attacking those who stand firm for God. Then "Michael the great prince" arises to defend God's people, and THEN begins "a time of trouble such as never has been".

So we can't just look at a series of wars and other events and say "this is the tribulation"; the Biblical tribulation revolves around the suffering of God's people. That is the point of the story.

PS If you were offering to consider present troubles as the beginning of Revelation ch6, I might be able to go along with you. But the "tribulation" proper is later than that.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

In 1984 an angel told me that there was a prophecy about an end time and that it would be signaled by a archangel blowing a trumpet. The angel told me this would happen on the second and third of January, 1985.

How do you know this angel was of God? How did you test this spirit to know? I don't know if it true or untrue without more specific information to check in the word.

This is not too far off from what Drala said, which is 1984. I don't think it needs to have been marked by anything in particular happening other that in a religious way, as in a certain amount of people who will be directly involved in the end time events receiving a kind of inspiration to get active and at that time. Now I am not saying this is me, or any one I know personally but other people who are not necessarily on the good side, but just necessary for end time events to happen, as in things people do in the world of religion and who it is exactly who are given the lead positions to do the work of the world powers. So, this is my explanation based on what I was told, and what I saw happen on that day and how they are related. It is a spiritual warfare and not just anyone is going to lead the war.

I do agree that much will happen/has already happened on the spiritual realm, but many of the prophesied event will be seen on earth.

reply to post by DarthMuerte
No I don't have any way to test the spirit other than what happened on the day specified, which was directly related to what the angel told me.
I was never told that I was supposed to say anything to anyone else about it. It was just a short and to the point message with very specific information.
This message did not specify what the end time was or even what was going to end. It was just about the date of when it was officially announced in heaven.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

The great tribulation of Matthew ch24 comes after the establishment of the "abomination of desolation", which is a kind of declaration of war on God.

Agreed. However I did not go to that part as I do not believe we are there yet. However, the "fig tree" has ripened so we know it is in the "season"

Compare also the sequence at the end of Daniel; the idolatrous king begins a paroxysm of warfare, after introducing the Abomination and attacking those who stand firm for God. Then "Michael the great prince" arises to defend God's people, and THEN begins "a time of trouble such as never has been".

So we can't just look at a series of wars and other events and say "this is the tribulation"; the Biblical tribulation revolves around the suffering of God's people. That is the point of the story.

PS If you were offering to consider present troubles as the beginning of Revelation ch6, I might be able to go along with you. But the "tribulation" proper is later than that.

I think you either mis read, mis understood, or I was not clear enough. The tribulation and great tribulation are , imo, still to come. We are, however, clearly in the run up to the start. I believe the desolation of Damascus will be the next prophetic event to unfold. I could be wrong, I am no prophet, just a student of prophecy. Shortly after that, should be the gog-magog war and when God delivers Israel from that attack there will no longer be any reason for anyone to have honest doubt as to whether or not God "exists". After that happens one will only be able to deny God if they are truly the fool.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

I think we've discovered that we're not really disagreeing, once we sort our terms out. Anyway, we both think the greatest trouble is not here yet.
I gather from another reply that the OP doesn't follow any particular religion, so he won't be quite sure what he means by "tribulation", anyway.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by OrNaM3nT
The Holy City is Jerusalem.

I concur in absolute. Of this you can be sure.
The holy city will be destreyed and out of heaven a new holy city will come. Be sure of this.

You seem to know a lot about this. When will all this happen? And are you saying this just because that's how you interpret the Bible or are you a prophet or a psychic of some kind?

With respect.
Peace

Originally posted by sheepzilla

I recently watched a video of a "revelations" prophecy, or something along the lines, that stated that tribulation, would last 7 years and would involve a multitude of things including: destruction of the holy city, the antichrist, and Armageddon.

It's "The Revelation". (singular and specific) Get rid of that video, the "tribulation" is specifically the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week.

To my previous knowledge, the holy city was Jerusalem. The video said that the holy city was Rome/Vatican City, but a multitude of people on ATS have been saying that it is Constantinople/Istanbul.

It's Jerusalem. Anytime it says in the Bible that a thing is HOLY, it's Jerusalem.

In another thread concerning the Illuminati conspiracies, someone brought up that a lot of"unusual" things have been occurring in Turkey, such as 7-9.0 earthquakes that have been along no major fault lines. And the December 7th sights were hosted in Turkey, or by someone of Turkish decent. The video also mentioned that tribulations would start Fall 2010 and end Fall/Winter of 2017. So, if one said that the "holy city" was in fact Istanbul, has tribulation already started?

You're watching a crap video for end times commentary/teaching/prophecy. I'd recommend Dr. Chuck Missler or Dr. Perry Stone Jr. All those unusual things are non-signs Jesus said, He said they would increase in intensity and frequency when the season was nearing. The "sign" of His near return is the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Which is when the antichrist will sit in the temple in Jerusalem and declare Himself to be God.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by OrNaM3nT
The Holy City is Jerusalem.

I concur in absolute. Of this you can be sure.
The holy city will be destreyed and out of heaven a new holy city will come. Be sure of this.

A perfect cube, 1500 miles on each side, 1500 miles up. This thing will stick out into space!

A perfect habitation, built by God, for all human life on the planet.

Then the planet will have its sabbaths and will recover back to the garden it started as.

... and remember, the time of tribulation is not the problem of the Church. It is the time of Jacobs trouble.

The Nazi's massacered 1/3 of the Jews alive at the time. The beast will massacre 2/3 of all mankind, but will specifically single out the Jews. It is prophesied, but they will eventually overcome when their messiah takes back the Earth.

It is through them that all nations will be blessed. This has not happened yet.

Originally posted by OrNaM3nT
The Holy City is Jerusalem.

Was it really Holy? Your Holy City nailed the Messiah to a cross. Your Holy City is also Mystery Babylon. Obviously it can't be that Holy.

The Holy City is New Jerusalem, not Old Jerusalem.

Originally posted by sheepzilla
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

I'm not sure, I don't really know much about WW3, and the war you speak of, I was questioning the video i posted because most of what he is saying about the end-times comes after WW3

Erm. I think WWIII started in 9/11/01 whichkick started this "Global War on Terrorism" key emphasis on "Global". Global is another word for world. So we actually have World War on Terrorism and that my friend is WWIII and it hasnt even gotten started. I suspect soon anyone that has a religion is going to be seen as a terrorist and either executed or given the option to convert (reject Christ or their beliefs) which will be the mark of the beast, you reject Christ and the seal of Lucifer goes on your forehead and right hand.

Welcome to the great tribulation. Believe it. It started around the beginning of 2011. These mayan prophecies and Nostradamus prophecies just got a faint whiff of whats about to go down. The world ain't ending, but it is going to change and in ways that will scare people. The world is going to go back to the way it was before the fall which probably could mean you can kiss technology and science goodbye as all of that stuff will be pointless and useless. Nuclear war could be a major factor for that, EMP pulses wreck electronics and so does radiation. Technology of the type were used to could go bye bye in a major way and never to return.

To answer the question I would say yes. But the tribulation we're seeing is the leadup to the days of the tribulation of the carcass in Matthew 24. I've been studying the bible and the apocalypse for a number of years now and discovered some interesting details here. Per Matthew 24 the apocalypse is supposed to run the lifetimes of the generation alive at the time of the first end time events. And a average lifetime is supposed to be 70 to 80 years per Psalms 90-10.

But the major problem here is that a verifiable end time event has already happened. The rebirth of Israel in 1948. Which is an end time event predicted in several places in the bible. So based on that the Apocalypse, the generation of Matthew 24 has been running for 63 years.

Now there is a definite problem here based on a reading of the 7th seal of Revelation.
Rev. 8-1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2nd Peter 3-8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If you do the math then the gap of 1/2 hour is supposed to be 20-21 years long. The 6th seal of Revelation should have opened up 5 to 10 years ago. The apocalypse is overdue.