Palestine Exists

reply to post by rogerstigers


So avoiding assimilation, which in premodern times, meant accepting a new religion, and rejecting Judaism, means they deserved the way they were treated by Christians and Muslims??

Clearly, you don't understand the ideological basis of Judaism, or of religion in general. Isolation was done to preserve their own religion, which means their own unique way of thinking.

reply to post by dontreally


About "race"....

Perhaps the Palestinian "ethnic" group (in current form) has evolved into just that...

a regional ethnic group.

"Israelis" (in Israel) in current form could be a regional ethnic group.

Maybe future history sees it as this?

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

So avoiding assimilation, which in premodern times, meant accepting a new religion, and rejecting Judaism, means they deserved the way they were treated by Christians and Muslims??

Clearly, you don't understand the ideological basis of Judaism, or of religion in general.

You know I have no opinion on the matter either way. Whatever philosophies people want to believe is their business. However, when one isolates themselves from their community and shuns those that are not like themselves, then they should expect to be treated with suspiscion and angst.

By hey, you know, if they want they should be separate from everyone and not play nice with their neighbors, its their life, I'm not gonna pass judgement.




btw, you will be assimilated.. resistance is futile

DontReally,

The vast, vast majority of people who we call Arabs are not genetically from the area of Mecca and Medina.

The Arab culture and the religion of the Arabs (ethnic Arabs from Yemen / Mecca / Medina) spread out of the home area to a region from the Atlantic to Iraq as you said.

"The Zionist" legend makes it seem that all the people of that huge area are the descendents of Mecca-him.

They are not and never were. The vast, vast majority of the people we think of as Arabs are the descendents of people who lived locally before the Arabs came.

The Zionist idea that an Arab is an Arab is an Arab is very convenient for the evil motives of Zionism but it is patently false.

If all Arabs are simply Arabs then ethnically cleansing Palestinian Arabs into surrounding Arab countries is fine but Palestinians are the people more or less who were always there.

I say more or less because every group of people is mixed and new people come into ethnic groups and some percentage of old families die out.

Now, from what we know, today's "Jews" are more like a copy of a copy of a copy of a bootleg video of a Boston clone band concert from 1979 spliced in with some bad MIDI tracks.

In other words today's Palestinians are a hell of a lot more related to the ancient Palestinians than today's blond, blue eyed, XTC popping, bacon eating Jews are related to Christ's original posse.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

Your basic assumptions are wrong because you reading "comic book" class literature.

And what is "comic book" about it?

Arabs are not a race, first of all.

What are the criteria of a people??? I'm not saying "race" as the term race is generally, and superficially, associated with skin color. A people is united by various criteria, namely, a shared language, a shared culture, and a shared religion. Thus, the Arab people stretch from Mauritania to Iraq. In between these areas there are clusters of other groups, with other cultures, other languages, and other religions. These people are usually subordinated to the dominant culture/people - the Arabs.

Jews may have spoken the lingua franca of the region - arabic - just as they spoke Aramaic in the near east, and as they spoke the local tongues of whatever lands they found themselves in. This didn't make them a part of the general population.

Hence the term - "Galuth" - exile, which the Rabbis attached to the Jews living in lands other then Eretz Yisrael. Both Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews recalled this everyday when they turned to Jerusalem in prayer. Or when they said on Yom Kippur and Passover "Next year in Jerusalem", they were acknowledging a basic principle of their faith: That their existence is attached to Israel. That when they are not there, scattered and assimilated in gentile cultures, they were in exile.

Again, you show you're blatant ignorance of Jewish history. Jews always lived in their own communities, separated from the rest of the general population. This is basic history.

dontreally,

I am thinking about creating another identity to support you because you are so damned entertaining.

When I was a kid my mom made me read the encylopedias and refused to allow any comic books in the house.

By the way, dontreally, they are called comic "books" but they are really just a sort of thin magazine.

So when you brag and say you read "it" in a book, comic book does not really count.

The Sephardim are from two sources. The great Berber conversion and the great conversion of the Greek colonists from what is now southern Italy (heel and toe of the boot) to Judaism. That explains why they are so white compared to the people with whom they lived.

Jewish women have no distinct genetic markers in common - period. Jewish men would travel far and wide and marry any stray harlot they could catch without exerting themselves.

There are Zionist propaganda centers that churn out false genetic data the way the Federal Reserve prints money but you can not believe a word they say, of course.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Sigismundus

 

Read this book.

Dna and Tradition: the genetic link to the ancient Hebrews

You seem to be unusually interested in this anti-Jewish literature.

Are the Sephardim, also converts from Jews in Kiev? If not, then why do Cohanic Jews from Europe, and the Middle/North Africa/Persia, all share the same genetic type, that goes back 150 generations i.e. to a common ancestor, being Aharon.

And why do you always, and conceitedly, refer back to your pseudo-scientific paleo-Hebrew course you took way back when?? Who cares???

You're just annoyed - clearly - without all your capitalization - that the Jews are what they say they are, and various genetic tests have proven it.

Link

go spread your filth somewhere else,

edit on 12-12-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

reply to post by BRAVO949

They are not and never were. The vast, vast majority of the people we think of as Arabs are the descendents of people who lived locally before the Arabs came.

Yes, i am fully cognizant of the fact that Arabs originated from the Arab peninsula...but the culture spread forth, with the Umayads, Abbasids, and the whole of the middle east and North Africa being ethnically obliterated, so much so that all that remains today is a tattered Berber community prevented from speaking its traditional languages and practicing its traditional culture, by Arabists; and Kurds, in Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran, likewise prevented for the same reasons, and of course the Copts in Egypt.

You realize Arabization is the CONQUERING of other groups, absorbing them, and erasing whatever distinction existed before them. So what is this nonsense of mentioning the differences between Arabs - if they are all essentially the same... If they all communicate in the same language, follow the same religion, and possess the same culture? The differences that do exist, for instance, with the Copts, is not due to the Arabic - which was forced on them (the native tongue of Copts is COPTIC, for instance.. Long ago they succumbed to Arab pressures) which they speak, but to religion, which they like the Jews have refused to give up. Look at the issues the Arabs have. With Kurds - what motivates this issue? The KURDISH RESISTANCE to ARABIZATION. Or again, the Jews. The Sephardim maintained their own religion, and practices, in the face of an expansionist culture and ideology that believed it was destined to take over the world.

To conflate Jews with arabs is OFFENSIVE TO Sephardic Jews, and anyone of them would tell you that.

Likewise, to do that to Copts, or Kurds, or traditional Berbers, is offensive. Just because you can speak a language doesn't make you that thing.

If all Arabs are simply Arabs then ethnically cleansing Palestinian Arabs into surrounding Arab countries is fine but Palestinians are the people more or less who were always there.

How many times do you have to read the quote of Zuhreir Mohsen, and the many others, before it enters your brain? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Palestine was a geo-political boundary created by the British. The land was controlled by the ottomans before. Lebanon is simple the name of mountain range. The same people from there, and Syria, and Jordan, and the hedjaz, are ethnically identical.

reply to post by BRAVO949


You people are disgusting.

So forget about the Mishna, completed 100 CE? Babylonian Talmud, completed 400 CE, in Baghdad? The Jewish communities of Baghdad? The deadsea scrolls? The many Tosepoth (additions) written between the 5th and 10th centuries.. What are these Jews? Phantoms? Made up material, even though they can be carbon dated to those periods??

You people are unbelievable with your propaganda and lies.

The JEWS ARE REAL. Both Sephardim and Ashkeanzim. why you think there would be mass conversions to Judaism amidst a Christian and Muslim hegemony is insane. It is illogical. And it never happened, because there was never an environment to ever foster such an event.

dontreally - you dont really know what you are talking about.

All that you are writing is from some propaganda book or another.

It is so obvious that you have never been to a Arab country.

The "culture" is different from village to village let alone from country to country.

I have Comptic friends and Kurdish Jew friends.

The truth is the culture of Arab Jews and Kurdish Jews have had their cultures crushed by Israel.

Kurdish Jews are treated like crap in Israel.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by BRAVO949

 

You people are disgusting.

So forget about the Mishna, completed 100 CE? Babylonian Talmud, completed 400 CE, in Baghdad? The Jewish communities of Baghdad? The deadsea scrolls? The many Tosepoth (additions) written between the 5th and 10th centuries.. What are these Jews? Phantoms? Made up material, even though they can be carbon dated to those periods??

You people are unbelievable with your propaganda and lies.

The JEWS ARE REAL. Both Sephardim and Ashkeanzim. why you think there would be mass conversions to Judaism amidst a Christian and Muslim hegemony is insane. It is illogical. And it never happened, because there was never an environment to ever foster such an event.

The term “Palestine” was given a political meaning for the first time in history by the British after World War I, when they took the region from the Turks and termed it “British Mandatory Palestine.” At that time (1920) Arab political and intellectual leaders spoke out vehemently against the creation of this new “Palestine” because the region was, in their minds, inextricably connected to Syria.

The Arabs of the area had their own designation for the region: Balad esh-Sham (the province of Damascus), or as-Suriya al-Janubiya (southern Syria). In fact, Arab nationalists protested the use of the term “Palestine” because for them “Palestine” was really southern Syria. Even the most vitriolic and vociferous Arab nationalist, the Hajj Amin el-Husseini, opposed creating “Palestine” separate from Syria.

For documentation see Marie Syrkin’s “Palestinian Nationalism: Its Development and Goal,” in Curtis, Michael, Neyer, Joseph, Waxman, Chaim, and Pollack, Allen, The Palestinians: People, History, Politics (New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Books, 1975), p. 200.

frontpagemag.com...

reply to post by dontreally

Hey Don’t Really

Your silly posts to some valid arguments on this Threadlet are making you to be widely regarded by thinking ATS posters as a ‘silly person’ - for example you wrote to SIGISMUNDUS:

QUOTE “Read this book : ‘DNA and Tradition: the Genetic link to the Ancient Hebrews.’

You seem to be unusually interested in anti-Jewish literature. Are the Sephardim, also converts from Jews in Kiev? If not, then why do Cohanic Jews from Europe, and the Middle/North Africa/Persia, all share the ‘same genetic type’, that goes back 150 generations i.e. to a common ancestor, being Aharon.

And why do you always, and conceitedly, refer back to your pseudo-scientific paleo-Hebrew course you took way back when??

Who cares???

You're just annoyed - clearly - without all your Capitalization - that the Jews are what they say they are, and various genetic tests have proven it. Link - Now go spread your Filth somewhere else…” UNQUOTE

What ? Who cares ? !!! Now I do realize you have no Koine Greek under your belt (so you thererfore cannot read the Greek translations taken from ancient hand copied Hebrew & Aramaic Vorlagen e.g. the various Septuaginta-LXX translations or those of Symmachus or Theodotion or Aquilla etal.) & you have even less Hebrew & Aramaic - which means you cannot read ANY the Dead Sea Scroll material in their originals - or any of the mangled hand copied proto-Masoretic un-pointed paleoHebrew texts (which, shock and awe, do NOT match each other very closely i.e. counting letter for letter) nor any of the Aramaic Targummim either) , but you should be VERY VERY VERY careful about casting aspersions against modern serious textual scholars who have taken the time again and again to address your mindless vomit on these ATS threads.

You’re only going to be ‘found out’ eventually, so why do you even bother ?

Obviously, you do not have a CLUE as to what you are talking about.

Your silly responses to valid points raised by myself and others on this thread prove this beyond any shadow of a doubt –

Fortunately for the group (but very unfortunately for you…!) I have a great deal of patience with persons like you….&(if you’ll notice) I prefer to deal with hard facts & unlike you, do not try to back up my opinions with empty, jejune Zionist propaganda tracts which have NOT a shred of hard evidence to back up any their vacuous ‘genetic’ claims.

Hmmm….where to start?

Well, how about here :

I noticed you carefully AVOIDED addressing the very very “problematic issue” (especially for modern persons styling themselves as ‘cohenim’ ! ) the historical facts surrounding the genetic GRAFTING of the GENTILE (non Jewish) proselyte NETHINIM (Heb. ‘Netanim’, i.e. 'given ones') blood-Haplotypes c. 470-370 BCE into the ‘priestly families’ during the 2nd Temple period Temple who genetically altered the purported ‘Aaronid’ priestly blood genetic Haplotypes in ancient Eretz Yisro’el - i.e. FOREVER altering the gene pool as it were from the 5th century BCE onwards.

Did you not even know this basic fact? If you did, you would certainly not have posted your racist-Zionist filth on your response back to me.

Remember (or learn for the 1st time !) that ONLY FOUR of the 24 cohenim/priestly families which had been exiled to Babylon (after 587 BCE) ever bothered to return to their sacrificial services at the cult of YHWH at Zion (the 4 most hard-lined Yahwistic ones, e.g. Ezra, who completely re-wrote the supposedly ancient ‘Mosaic’ Torah traditions in the late 5th century BCE & with a completely new Aleph-Beth, too !) – These 20 missing cohenim families eventually married into the local Assyro-Babylonian priestly families & then…shock and awe…!!eventually converted to Islam, where their blood haplotypes are now present mixed in amongst the Kurds & Iraqi’s...

That means the VAST MAJORITY (20 out of 24) of the ‘cohenim’ (‘priests’, ‘seers’) serving twice a week throughout the ‘sacral’ year in the [smaller] 2nd Temple of YHWH at Jerusalem after c.450 BCE were NON-Aaronid priestly goyim (i.e. non Jews, i.e. Gentiles, i.e. non Levitical Nethanim) totally un-related to Aharon or any other genetically DISTINCT priestly families of the ancient YHWH cults around Zion e.g. the sons of Zadok or the sons of Asaph etc.)

Now go back & re-read the above Paragraph until it sinks into your skull.

Question: Why do you keep banging your head against the wall claiming (without any convincing evidence) that modern-day Uzbeko-Turko-Ukrainian ‘cohenim’ (i.e. the Ashkenazim) or the Berber-Sefardi ‘cohenim’ (whose blood lines are mixed iin racially with many other strains e.g. Hispano-Celtic ) can legitimately trace ANY of their blood genetic chromosomal ancestry to some mythical Priest (‘Aharon’) who at any rate made pagan golden calf idols for a living?

If you are paying attention the technique of arguing used to try and support the Apartheid state is Isreal is exactly like the techniques used but Communists and abortion advocates.

Makes perfect sense of course because the same group of happy-go-lucky funsters are behind all three freedom and tradition crushing movements.

Technique number one is attack, attack, attack.

In particular, take the weakness of Zionism, Communism and chidl murder and flip it around and accuse the other side and attack it.

In this case Israel has no right to exist and Zionism is a fraud.

They never want to argue about that and of course they do not because they haven't a leg to stand on.

So instead they spin, flip, fly and set their hair on fire screaming about Palestinians are this and not that.

Jews are not a race they are religion.

Today's Jews are the sons and daughters of converts and have no claim to any part of the Middle East - period.

The one thing Jews will never agree to is a DNA test to decide who is Jewish.

Interestingly not because Jews would be excluded but because millions of human beings who make no claim to be Jewish would test out as just as Jewish as poster boy of Jews.

Originally posted by BRAVO949
If you are paying attention the technique of arguing used to try and support the Apartheid state is Isreal is exactly like the techniques used but Communists and abortion advocates.

Makes perfect sense of course because the same group of happy-go-lucky funsters are behind all three freedom and tradition crushing movements.

Technique number one is attack, attack, attack.

In particular, take the weakness of Zionism, Communism and chidl murder and flip it around and accuse the other side and attack it.

Circa 1967 .............. somewhere in Pan Arabia.

Arab guy - Damn those jews have just kicked our miserable asses again, even all our armies combined can't defeat them.

KGB officer - Well you know, for certain considerations, we could perhaps help you out a little here.

Arab - really! - could you, we are desperate here, it is unbearable to be humiliated by jews like this.

KGB - see, your problem is US and European support for the Jews, I mean you know all that guilt for the Holocaust - they feel they need to atone for it, by making a jewish homeland possible. Plus of course the underdog thing - i know ridiculous1, but they are not like us and admire strength - no they have an emotional attachment for underdogs - they see tiny Israel being attacked by the Arab armies - and you know it's like david and Goliath for them.

Arab - of course, of course - but how can we stop them supporting the jews.

KGB - well as you know our speciality is disinformation, propaganda that sort of thing - we have achieved wonderfull things with it - most Western jounalist academics are communists or socialist leaning,we have tremendous influence there.

Arab - wonderful !- so you can let them know that Allah commands Jews to be subservient to muslims.

KGB - no no no, that sort of thing doesn't go down well over there - see you have to make out you are a 'victim of injustice' a weakling to get there sympathy - strange I know but that's Christians for you!

Arab - Damn - we are buggered then!

KGB - Ah, but we have a cunning plan............................................................................................

The thing is - this is 2011 damn near 2012 and the whole world supports the Palestinians and the country of Palestine already exists.

At this point there are only two groups in the world who support Israeli Apartheid and the racist ideology of Zionism.

Specifically, fanatical paranoid Jews and possum-eating American Christian Hillbillies.

You'll notice both groups have sent delegates to this thread.

UN vote on Palestinian state put off amid lack of support Palestinians to decide whether to press statehood issue after mustering only eight of nine votes needed to win approval

reply to post by BRAVO949


www.guardian.co.uk...

Boo hoo!

Dear Possum-Eater,

Palestine is a state.

The US has blocked its full membership in the UN but Palestine is recognised as a country by the majority of the nations in the world.

The news may not have reached you hollow yet.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Oh, and the The War Between the States is over.

Does this mean Palestine is real?

Is their flag real?

The Palestinian flag was raised for the first time on Tuesday above a UN agency, the UNESCO headquarters in Paris, in a diplomatic victory won despite stiff resistance from the US and Israel.

President Mahmud Abbas looked on as the flag was raised and the Palestinian anthem played, just weeks after Palestine won admission to UNESCO in move that sparked fury and reprisals fromWashington and Israel.

“President Abbas wants to show the importance he attaches to UNESCO,” a Palestinian diplomat said ahead of the ceremony. “And this is the first time that the flag will be flown at the headquarters of a UN institution.”

UNESCO said the flag-hoisting was a symbolic ceremony “to mark Palestine’s admission to the organisation” that takes place each time a new member joins.

The Palestinians were admitted to the body in late October, when the UNESCO general assembly voted 107-14 to make Palestine its 195th member.

Palestinian flag raised at UNESCO after admission

Israel, for its part, took its own retaliatory measures, by deciding to accelerate settlements in occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank and freezing the transfer of funds to the Palestinian Authority.

Every month, Israel transfers tens of millions of dollars in customs duties on Palestinian-bound goods that transit through Israeli ports, but it often freezes them as a punitive measure during disagreements.

Faced with international criticism, Israel later lifted its freeze on the funds, which represent a large chunk of the Palestinian Authority’s budget.