Is US Minimum Wage really $7.25?

reply to post by theovermensch


Yes,

But I did some looking around and the cost of living is higher in Australia so it evens out or is better. I see basic apartments renting at $ 700 per WEEK where in America, we can get the same type of places for that much per MONTH.

So.........

There are all kinds of things to consider.

www.realestate.com.au...

reply to post by ldyserenity


I don't know what to think or believe anymore

I got alot of NEW ideas lately and I know they ain't the right ones.. but here I sit in the desert of sin, a person that tried to do everything right, yet everything falls to crap. sometimes I wonder if I could just get enough money to live in open country, if everything wouldn't be great. I'm tired of this country and I'm tired of this world sometimes. just get me away from the people and call me back when yall figured everything out. till then I like to look at the stars and ponder which dot of light in the sky got it all right.

The United States minimum wage has now risen to the same level (adjusted for 2009 $) as 1984. Between 1968 and 1990 the minimum wage had steadily dropped from its peak at just over $10 an hour at the end of Lyndon Johnson’s second term as President. Under Richard Nixon it dropped considerably from $10 to ~$7.25 then went back up under Carter fluctuating between $8-9 an hour until Ronald Reagan became President when it steadily dropped from about $8.30 to just below $6 at the end of his Presidency.

Why did the minimum wage drop so much under Ronald Reagan? He had argued, even in the debates with Carter, that the unemployment crisis was being exacerbated, especially among young blacks, by the high minimum wage which may require a higher wage being paid than the job is actually worth (according to the market) thus less jobs were available. This same general theory was tied into the policies of Neoliberalism which he brought into government, same with the policies of Thatcher (UK), and have not been abandoned by the ‘Conservatives’ since but has in fact been adopted by the ‘Third Way’, New Democrats (Clinton, Gore, Obama) and New Labour (Blair, Brown).

The late ‘70s stagflation allowed the monetarists on the Right to rise up against the Bretton Woods System of Keynesian economics which had been established to plan the economy in a way that would not permit a return of the 1930s Depression. But these policies were observed as failures, mostly due to the high spending of the Johnson and Nixon administrations (Great Society + Viet Nam War) which led Nixon to removing the Dollar from a gold backing causing mass inflation tied in with the oil crisis, this destroyed the Keynesian system. In Great Britain after the ‘Winter of Discontent’ the Dries rose up in the Tory Party to gain control under the leadership of Margaret Thatcher. This same battle was played out in the US between Reagan and Bush, Sr.

What does this have to do with the minimum wage? Well by arguing that we need jobs which were being stopped by the high minimum wage they lowered the minimum wage which allowed for new jobs to be created except this time they were from the services sector. Meanwhile the Neoliberal policies advocated the opening of borders for free-trade which encouraged industry to move abroad (also add in the high tax, regulations of the Keynesian era which had not been removed yet). Combined this allowed for more jobs to be created for lower pay and less economic security while exporting our manufacturing overseas without everyone noticing because they had jobs outside of this once crucial industry.

But the problem then became immigration which fueled the crisis. Since industry was being exported, encouraged by the ideology of free-trade, it also encouraged the importing of cheap foreign labor which undermines native labor costs. So in order for people to compete with these low-skilled, low-paid immigrants who were taking the jobs domestically, combined with them taking the jobs which had been exported, the Neoliberals were able to again sit at the table and argue that we should let minimum wage either stagnate our cut it further so that more jobs could be created.

The Neoliberals openly encouraged the mass immigration from the third world and the outsourcing of jobs to the third world all for the benefit of big business while having the right-wing cheer on free-trade (protectionism/fair trade is evil) and having the left-wing cheer on mass immigration (closed borders/quota system is evil). Big business got rich, the politicians got rich, we became poorer and sharp divisions were created in our nations based on the resentment towards immigrants who could not be assimilated. It was a win-win for the elite, a lose-lose for the workers.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by theovermensch

 

Here in Australia it is $15.51 an hour.In Australia a 16 year old gets $7.34.

Why would a teenager earn half of the minimum wage? Just curious. Are employers over there allowed to discriminate pay based on age? I don't understand that.

To answer your question, 'minimum wage' is not the same as 'living wage.' It was never intended to be.

We, in the US, discriminate pay based on age too... Minors are only legally allowed to work part time in most of the states here (AFAIK, definitely NY and FL, since I've lived in both as a minor) which fluctuates from 15 - 30 hours a week.

So while the base "pay" doesn't change, the total money they are allowed to earn is most definitely restricted.

reply to post by wingsfan


I hear you. I just want to live on peace and raise my family. Yet you can't just do that anymore. Sometimes I think the whole world is nuts and that I don't want to be here anymore. I'm sick and tired of the status quo.

reply to post by metaldemon2000


Exactley. My kids dont have any fancy toys either, hell their clothes are all hand me downs that dont match, lol. We do splurge on good shoes, and even then its buy one get one half off. My 96 suburban has been parked for 3 months, the 94 caprice needs tires. so when I get a job, i'll be walking. Which isnt a problem, but how far are my babies gonna have to walk? All for rb cents over minium wage?

Guesstimating daycare for 2 kids will be 200 a week... I'll be broke before I get paid. I don't want much. I just want to feed my kids, clothe them, and let them enjoy being kids.

How can you enjoy being a kid, when your always told "we can't get an ice cream from the ice cream man, we gotta buy diapers" . I know thats not the end of the world, lol, just an example.

At least my kids won't be materialistic. So thats a plus

It's not so much the wage as it is the cost of goods. I remember when my dad worked for GM. back in the late 70's I asked him how much it costs in materials to make a Corvette. The cost? About $2500. The retail? base unit just over $9k. You can translate that over to any industry. As costs rise, some due to transportation costs and some due to labor expense, the wages have to rise. It is a vicious cycle. The real estate boom is a perfect example of artificially inflated goods. It also has to do with the whole keeping up with the Jones mentality. If someone decides an area is the best place to build a house, each successive home will cost more than the last. It becomes expensive due to the location, not because the materials got more expensive. And so it goes.

It used to be where companies/corporations operated by economical standards. What I mean by that is that what was demanded was in fact produced. Now in some areas things are overproduced (tv's, DVD players, iPhones), and other things are manipulated to fall below demand (Produce, Milk, etc). Market manipulation is ruining the market. Housing is well overpriced beyond beyond, this makes it difficult to even set a livable wage. It is my beleif that if things were produced according to demand and food was left to be produced at the real rate it is and housing was priced by median income like it used to be that it would eventually even out to a normal, sustainable economy, not to mention a more realistic minimum wage would be self evident, or may not be needed at all. Also remember that overproduction DOES NOT increase employment. at least not here in the US, it increases employment overseas because it is cheaper to produce those items there. So in the end corporations are not running economically anymore, instead they are going totally against all the stuff That I learned as basic concepts in economy class. When you run a business like that, bad things are bound to happen.

Originally posted by Stan71
My point... I don't see how anyone could live off minimum wage where I live.

They dont. They either go completely dependent on the system or they leave the state.

I was making good money in a good job in that state and still was living in a single rented room with no belongings other than clothes and a bicycle and there was no way in hell I was going to be able to afford climbing beyond that.

To make matters worse every time I saved up a good sum the city or state would come in with some bogus fees or penalties and wipe it all out.

I left CT, took a 50% pay cut, and because of relative expenses I can live very comfortably on much much less.

Leave CT. There is absolutely no reason for anybody to live in that god-forsaken state. In any of the high-cost states like CT, MA, NJ, NY. There's just no reason to.

Hug your friends good-bye and get the hell out. CT hates you. That's the straight truth. It absolutely hates you.

I had to hide money for years to afford to leave. It was like smuggling Anne Frank out of Nazi occupied territory. And they still chased me with made-up fees and charges a year or two after leaving until I finally got a lawyer to contact the city and call them on their BS.

Leave NOW.

reply to post by Stan71


Its the same thing in Australia with some. There are some that struggle but we seem to treat people on income support/unemployment benifits with alot more dignity and we also seem to do a better job of meeting their needs. For example the idea of 'food stamps' seems like an attack on peoples pride. I have heard people proposing drug testing for those on welfare. I think that is outrageous.

And to see people protesting healthcare is insane. When I was a kid Australia had medicare which covered everything for everyone. It has been Americanized to an extent now though with less funding for Public Hospitals and a push for everyone to pay for Private(which isnt much better). What they do now is they take the money out of your 'tax return' each year if you arent in private.You also have to pay a percentage of certain things now like xrays and stuff on medicare. They havent been able to fully Americanize it because we dont have any Tea Party Patriots I guess.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by Stan71
My point... I don't see how anyone could live off minimum wage where I live.

They dont. They either go completely dependent on the system or they leave the state.

I was making good money in a good job in that state and still was living in a single rented room with no belongings other than clothes and a bicycle and there was no way in hell I was going to be able to afford climbing beyond that.

To make matters worse every time I saved up a good sum the city or state would come in with some bogus fees or penalties and wipe it all out.

I left CT, took a 50% pay cut, and because of relative expenses I can live very comfortably on much much less.

Leave CT. There is absolutely no reason for anybody to live in that god-forsaken state. In any of the high-cost states like CT, MA, NJ, NY. There's just no reason to.

Hug your friends good-bye and get the hell out. CT hates you. That's the straight truth. It absolutely hates you.

I had to hide money for years to afford to leave. It was like smuggling Anne Frank out of Nazi occupied territory. And they still chased me with made-up fees and charges a year or two after leaving until I finally got a lawyer to contact the city and call them on their BS.

Leave NOW.

Sadly most bust and depend on the system... since moving out of state generally costs an arm and a leg....

The interesting thing is that in the U.S., if you have no significant assets other than a modest house, and you have a family making about $50,000, you are better off downgrading to a minimum wage job so that you will be eligible for the various anti-poverty programs such as food stamps and medicaid. At least then you will insure your family has food and health care. If you make, say, $75,000, you will lose money if you do that, but it is tempting because you could then give up your stressful 70 hour per week job and just enjoy life and being with your family.

By the way, if you made $75,000 in 1980, which many American middle class men did because we actually manufactured things, you made the equivalent of over $200,000 in today's dollars. Of course, you don't always notice how poor you are in 2011, because you can buy your gadgets and household items for around the same prices as they were in 1980 (because the manufacturers are utilizing slave labor in developing countries to manufacture them). But you DO notice when you have to pay for a service that cannot be outsourced, like education or medical care. The reason those things rise at a double digit rate every year is that THEY are the true representation of inflation and the loss of purchasing power.

The bottom line that too many Americans can not seem to figure out is that the Reagan/Bush/Bush years were an absolute disaster for middle class people. The GOP exists to lower the costs of production, period. And, oh, by the way, you are a cost of production.

Originally posted by Laokin

Sadly most bust and depend on the system... since moving out of state generally costs an arm and a leg....

We need to establish some sort of "underground railroad" to help people escape.

Yes the national minimum wage is at 7.25 now, it used to be lower a few years ago. I grew up in Massachusetts and it was 8.00 at the time when i first started working. My family moved to Florida in 2004 and i started at 6.50. I want to say that they upped it to 7.25 in 2007 or 2008. Unfortunately all i can get are retail type jobs which are no good. I worked at Target for a year, anyone who has worked retail knows they mess with your hours big time. Most places wont give you more than 30 hours a week, sometimes as low as 5-10 hours a week. How is anyone with a family supposed to live like that? Does it really need to get to the point where people need to work 3 or 4 jobs to make it? I guess so...then i read on threads here about people mooching off the system. Funny how the gov will continue spending billions on weapons and wars, and they're first step to controlling the deficit is to cut programs for those who are already barely making it here at home. Im so sad for my country, and the world as a whole.


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reply to post by Misoir

The United States minimum wage has now risen to the same level (adjusted for 2009 $) as 1984. Between 1968 and 1990 the minimum wage had steadily dropped from its peak at just over $10 an hour at the end of Lyndon Johnson’s second term as President. Under Richard Nixon it dropped considerably from $10 to ~$7.25 then went back up under Carter fluctuating between $8-9 an hour until Ronald Reagan became President when it steadily dropped from about $8.30 to just below $6 at the end of his Presidency.

Are you absolutely sure about those figures? I remember working during Reagan years and my min wage (I was in high school) was $4.25. Did I wake up in another timeline? Just joking. But, I know for a fact it was $4.25 in 1988.

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by theovermensch

 

Yes,

But I did some looking around and the cost of living is higher in Australia so it evens out or is better. I see basic apartments renting at $ 700 per WEEK where in America, we can get the same type of places for that much per MONTH.

So.........

There are all kinds of things to consider.

www.realestate.com.au...

edit on 9-12-2011 by skepticconwatcher because: add link

Yeah,you guys have the reserve currency and Australia's buying power is the equivilent of a crappy US state. I dont mean to offend. I just dont think Americans for the most part see how bad it is for those on welfare and the working poor.
Australias future looks pretty bright though,and like I said our credit rating is AAA and our Dollar is above the reserve.Mining Boom with no end in sight.But I guess we could have a pissing contest about which is better,I just think you guys seem to stick to the poor a bit too much. Maybe I should have said America looks like a terrible place to live for the poor.

reply to post by ldyserenity


The actual minimum wage throughout the 1980s was $3.25 but adjusted for inflation at 2009 Dollars it fell from $8 to just below $6.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


We need more than that. We need an underground country!
We need for more people to participate in a barter system, and actually practice free markets. If you are not "earning" an income, you are not paying the fiat fees. Instead of paying a wage, make it a "volunteer" position, and the business can "donate" money to the individual. As long as each donation is under $13,000, then they can't tax you. A person/company can make as many donations as they wish without any penalties.

There, solves the problem!

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

The actual minimum wage throughout the 1980s was $3.25 but adjusted for inflation at 2009 Dollars it fell from $8 to just below $6.

Oh I see what you're saying now, duh lol...even with two cups of coffee my brain is still asleep lol.
So it was adjusted for what it would equate to in 2009 USD?
That makes sense because I could buy lots of stuff back then at that min wage then I could ever buy today at min wage. In fact I felt the richest kid in school back then (As I was about 1 out of ten kids that actually held a job). LOL!

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by Misoir

 

The United States minimum wage has now risen to the same level (adjusted for 2009 $) as 1984. Between 1968 and 1990 the minimum wage had steadily dropped from its peak at just over $10 an hour at the end of Lyndon Johnson’s second term as President. Under Richard Nixon it dropped considerably from $10 to ~$7.25 then went back up under Carter fluctuating between $8-9 an hour until Ronald Reagan became President when it steadily dropped from about $8.30 to just below $6 at the end of his Presidency.

Are you absolutely sure about those figures? I remember working during Reagan years and my min wage (I was in high school) was $4.25. Did I wake up in another timeline?

Just joking. But, I know for a fact it was $4.25 in 1988.

$4.25 in 1988 was worth more than $7.50 in 2009. His figures account for inflation. It's even lower in 2011, so his figures are actually lower than what is current.

Edit: He beat me too it.