EU fails to agree treaty - intergovernmental agreement instead. 2 tier Europe a reality

Originally posted by EvanB
Off topic I know, but is it just me or do we English love any chance possible to give the Frenchies and Germans a kick in the bollocks now and again??

Exunctly. England and then the UK has, for the most part, spent the past 1,000 years, a pile of gold and untold young mens lives in preventing a Europe dominated by either the French or Germans, usually siding with the one that doesn't, at that time, want to take over.

What I have been saying for years (and would appear to have been quite accurate on) is that the EU is basically France and Germany teaming up to control Europe together, after having failed militarily for centuries. Do not forget that upon our accesion to the EEC (the now EU), France opposed our membership, because they feared we would bugger it up for them.

Now what we see is blatant. France and Germany tag teaming the smaller nations into being their bitches and they thought they could do the same to the UK. Not on your life, well, certainly not if we have a Tory PM. Had this been Brown or Blair it would have been signed the moment he was shown to his seat.

I am hoping that this is the first step down the slope of our leaving this corrupt pile of Eurocrap. All we signed up for, and certainly all we the people were ever asked about, was a common market and open borders. No one ever said anything about "fiscal and political Union" which is the wet dream of Franco-German imperialists.

reply to post by ThorsBrother


Personally, I think much of this "north south divide" is in people's heads. Had you asked anyone round my neck of the woods where the "stadium" was, you would be told, providing you could say which one! I help people all the time, as do many I know. I even helped a Polish guy once who didn't know his way around nor spoke English. I gave him directions in German!

Now, if we're on about the North South economic divide, then thats another topic, but then, if it was me and there were no jobs in my area, I'd move... I know it's an earth shattering concept to some and even lands people in hot water when they suggest it, but isn't that how all the big, industrial northern towns where born anyway? I think far too many people still expect there to be a job 10 minutes from their house. Times have changed, there are jobs, so get on your bike!

And for balance I say the same to my missus, who uses the same excuse when browsing the thousands of jobs online. I personally have worked and lived all over the UK and have only ever been unemployed once, for a whole 3 weeks, until I "got on my bike" and found another job.

reply to post by stumason


And the next step . . . how long before the economic powerhouse that is Germany puts vice grips to the nads of France and completes without a shot what Hitler could not accomplish despite the death of 60 million people?

reply to post by GoalPoster


They did it already, but they squeezing slowly. Why do you think Sarkozy is dancing to Germany's tune? It's not as if the French have any money to bail anyone out, they never go to work!

True story: BBC reporter is in the South of France covering the difference of attitude between UK workers and French. She went through 3 towns looking for lunch, but all the restaurants where closed, at 1pm!

She finally found a town some 30 odd miles from where she began with a single restaurant open, where all the owners from the other closed ones where having lunch! After she spent an 1hr 1/2 eating and catching up on mails, she left, to the astonishment of the local French who though she had a "short" lunch..

I'm not sure which is more outstanding. The fact a restaurant is closed at lunch, or the fact therir lunches exceed 2 hours on a regular basis... Go figure..

Originally posted by Ausar
whats up with that uk? we can bail out banks and greece has to pass austerity but you feel entitled and that the uk needs no austerity?

Exactly that.

The UK bails out its banks but with pound sterling.
Why should the UK help bail out the rest of Europe who have fu"**ed themselves over by jumping onboard of euro trap.

I live in Spain, when the euro came in they said nothing would change.
Bread cost 40 pesetas, 40 centimos of a euro.
A coffee 90 pesetas, about 70 centimos.

Shortly after the arrival of the euro, bread cost 70 centimos and a coffe you could'nt find for less than a euro.

Why should the UK have to incur more price raises just to keep the frogs happy.
Saying that, as part of the universal plan to control us all under one Europe with one currency and one leader, the catholic church, David Cameron has really # out as now the REAL European powers will hound his stupidy punishing England.

And we all know that when England is punished, the rich never suffer, only the working man.

reply to post by andy1972


I still maintain that the UK has a social respOnsibility to ensure that the banking industry is controlled and their excesses are curtailed. If the UK signed up to increased pan European regulation of banking then there would be no outlet for banks to operate in Europe without accountability. Europe is a massive Market and the banks will still operate within her boundaries, ok some aspects will be moved offshore. That's a given. What's left will be what we (the people) need.

Irresponsible cronyism, political opportunism at it's rankest best.

reply to post by cerebralassassins


Actually it seems completely off topic, irrelevant, and nonsensical.

was here a point you meant to make??

kind of a weirde move considering england has a hand in making eu treatys wouldnt you think ?

im going to call ruse, perphaps they have something else in mind ... i mean britian shouldnt be in the eurozone in the first place their rules dont apply to us .. those stupid regulations are crippling the uk economy and any fool can see it ... even our own damn government know what happening and yet they allow it to suck the life out of britian .. we need a serious reform on economic growth and i would propose banning all of shore trade unless they pay a tax making it more expensive to sell goods in the uk therefore boosting uk manufacturing ! man 30 years ago we made computers for #s sake why did we stop ?? because computers made by chinese slaves were cheaper because chinese slaves work for # all and brits use to make a good living and the lobbyists paid a good wack to the politicians to back the importation of cheap # and all it did was destroy our economy !

i would never have let this happen in a million years but our #ing government did and man im so angry i could have done a better job than any #ing minister in parliament today yesterday and 20 #ing years ago

infact any man with common sense could .. and we have a parliament full of jackals feeding on true brits like dingos in a maternity ward ! why GOD WHY ?

reply to post by akapapasmurf


Well I see it that Cameron vetoed the treaty so that the jackals could continue to feed. How many ex Tory ministers end up as directors of banks? Quite a lot I would say from experience.

In terms of manufacturing losses your term 'Chinese slaves' is absolutely correct and makes me sick to the stomach that I am using an iPhone right now. (I know US tech, but built by Chinese slaves).

In terms of governmentI have just seen some of Newsnight on BBC2 where Camerons head was mocked up on a flag wearing British Bulldog! That is utter dogs! Cameron has shown weakness of the most disgusting nature by failing to a t for the benefit of the citizens of Europe.

Another excuse for the EU to slate us and condemn us for being British.

Who cares about the EU? It's never brought this country anything good, we always get slagged off by Merkel and Midget so why should we fund their dreams any longer.

We need to keep our sovereignty, we need to look after our interests and that doesn't include bending over whenever these two come calling.

The Euro will crumble within a few years, regardless of what these people orchestrate so why bother.

Get out now, let them fight amongst themselves and we can concentrate on managing our own debt rather then several other countries.

Good move Cameron.

You have to remember folks that some of these countries that said that they agree have to get it ratified back in their homelands .... something that I dont think will happen as a lot of these countries parliments are made up of coalitions. I dont think the UK will be 'alone' for long and I want to see the look on that smug-faced froggie presidents face when it all goes pear-shaped. Also, they said it will take until March to get the treaty up, well 3.5 months is a bloody long time in politics and even longer in economics.

reply to post by Wotan


If you do not think this treaty will be ractified then you are living in never never land. The EU Officials will force the Treaty through if those countries who have signed up to it refuse to do so.

They done this with Ireland and other European countries before. They will continue to do this until they reach thier goals.

reply to post by WatchRider


Hungary and the Czech's Originally refused to sign up to it but changed their minds after Cameron Vetoed, the treaty.

Makes me wonder if they all had planned this all along to gang up on the UK once they used the VETO.

reply to post by Laurauk


Or they felt safe to agree as Britain had walked out at that point... Looking at Swedens wording it seems to me they are saying yes we agree as long as all 27 agree.. and are also seeking vetos.

So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out in countries like Sweden.. while it is still not clear whether or not some other countries in Eurozone will have to take this to referendum..

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Well if it fails at least those countries will not get the blame.

Since the finger is pointing directly at the UK.

As one UK Newspaper said in retaliation, Up Yours Europe .

reply to post by Laurauk


Well, it seems to me we usually get the blame anyway, tho I do think laughing at those who point fingers doesn't help, however it it fun and someone even put up a map minus Britain which I'm sure must mean we're going to tow these islands down to the equator for drinkies on the beach

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Wotan

 

If you do not think this treaty will be ractified then you are living in never never land. The EU Officials will force the Treaty through if those countries who have signed up to it refuse to do so.

They done this with Ireland and other European countries before. They will continue to do this until they reach thier goals.

Not this time. Things have changed a lot since the days of the Lisbon Treaty. Have a look at some of the EU countrys Governments political make-up. There are a lot of skeptical parties involved nowadays.

As one UK Newspaper has said today, the Titanic has sailed and we (UK) have been left on the dockside ....... we all know what happened to the Titanic.

"Privately, Nicolas Sarkozy considers unthinkable the possibility of letting the UK prosper without any rule or control.’

Link

True colours are shown, this isn't about reform, it's about tit for tat personal vendettas.

As the polls show, leave the EU, we have the infrastructure in place to come out of this crisis with our tails held high.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by GoalPoster

 

They did it already, but they squeezing slowly. Why do you think Sarkozy is dancing to Germany's tune? It's not as if the French have any money to bail anyone out, they never go to work!

True story: BBC reporter is in the South of France covering the difference of attitude between UK workers and French. She went through 3 towns looking for lunch, but all the restaurants where closed, at 1pm!

She finally found a town some 30 odd miles from where she began with a single restaurant open, where all the owners from the other closed ones where having lunch! After she spent an 1hr 1/2 eating and catching up on mails, she left, to the astonishment of the local French who though she had a "short" lunch..

I'm not sure which is more outstanding. The fact a restaurant is closed at lunch, or the fact therir lunches exceed 2 hours on a regular basis... Go figure..

The French probably work similar hours to the Spanish. I'm not Spanish but I have lived and worked here for almost 10 years and it is still sometimes frustrating that all local businesses are closed between 2pm and 5pm. They never open on a Sunday or Public Holiday.

The Spanish open their premises from 10am till 2pm then close for lunch. They then go back and open up from 5pm till 10pm so they're actually working a 9 hour day, 6 days a week. My husband and I still run our business with usual British opening hours - 9am till 5pm with an hour for lunch from 1pm till 2pm so we only work a 7 hour day, 5 days a week.

Spanish bars, restaurants and cafes open even earlier at around 7am and some close from 2pm till 5pm but others stay open right through till night time closing which could be anything from 10pm to the early hours of the morning. It just depends on how popular they are and their regular customers because there's no point opening and paying staff if premises will be empty. In tourist areas bars, restaurants and cafes tend to stay open. Large shopping centres also tend to stay open from 10am through to 10pm but they tend to be located in tourist areas and not smaller Spanish towns and cities.

Breakfast here is at 7am with a second breakfast/brunch between 11am and mid day. Dinner is a full cooked meal, at home, with the family between 2pm and 5pm. Supper is usually between 9pm and 11pm.

So in conclusion, the Spanish may seem to work less hours due to the afternoon closing times but they actually work an average of 54 hours per week as 'normal' whereas we only work an average of 35 hours a week as 'normal'.

Originally posted by Wotan
You have to remember folks that some of these countries that said that they agree have to get it ratified back in their homelands .... something that I dont think will happen as a lot of these countries parliments are made up of coalitions. I dont think the UK will be 'alone' for long and I want to see the look on that smug-faced froggie presidents face when it all goes pear-shaped. Also, they said it will take until March to get the treaty up, well 3.5 months is a bloody long time in politics and even longer in economics.

The local Spanish citizens, where I live, aren't happy about it. They do not want to lose any sovereignity or be controlled from outside of Spain but the politicians are the ones making the decisions and we've just had a general election where the PP won by a landslide. We also had local elections in the summer and the PP won by a landslide then too so there aren't many local politicians that will be working for what the average citizen wants.

Something I'm really curious about and can't find an answer to, so would be grateful for any input, is that if Britain leaves the EU where does that leave all the British expats that live and work in Europe at the moment? We're only allowed to be living and working here as EU citizens so would we all have to apply to stay as immigrants or come back to Britain? There's an awful lot of expats throughout Europe and it would be a huge strain on Britain if we all had to move back - housing, schools, NHS, jobs, etc, etc. It's for these reasons I don't think Britain will leave the EU but maybe the government have considered the expat situation and have a plan so I could be wrong.