Rumours Higgs boson has been detected at LHC

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


The sun was way hotter than it was before, as time passes energy is transferred and therefore things appear to LOSE energy, not gain.

So one day the sun will lose all of its energy and there will be no more for the Earth, this is not theory, it is fact. We can actually measure the energy the sun gives off for proof that it's happening...


I'm not sure where you're getting "a heat death" from... sounds like pseudo-science to promote a religious agenda..

Anyway, this is NOT the topic of discussion at hand. The topic is the Higgs Boson particle and now this topic is elaborated upon with the discussion whether or not this proves that a God exists or not... but the topic is still Higgs Boson NOT entropy...

reply to post by arpgme

"heat death" results from entropy. i'm unsure if you understand exactly what entropy means if you think the phrase "heat death of the universe" is psudo-science. entropy points to a finite beginning, so what caused the beginning? i'll post a few links to view at your leisure.

The 'heat-death' of the universe is when the universe has reached a state of maximum entropy. This happens when all available energy (such as from a hot source) has moved to places of less energy (such as a colder source). Once this has happened, no more work can be extracted from the universe.

www.physlink.com...

A new calculation of entropy upholds that general result but suggests that the universe is messier than scientists had thought—and slightly further along on its gradual journey to death, two Australian cosmologists conclude.

www.usnews.com...

my point was to show that neither the finding of the higgs boson, nor anything else that has been discovered and proven has debunked the possibility of a god. i would say the finite space-time of the universe points to a creator of some kind.

i'm not sure what i believe about the higgs boson. it could exist, or mass of a particle could be an inherent property to certain wave functions.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that if you smash enough particles together just by random chance something that appears to behave like *any* particular particle that may be theorised could be spat out?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


The universe is infinite, eternal... so it doesn't...

reply to post by arpgme

an infinite quantity cannot exist with time. i've already told you. black holes form event horizons for this reason, so that an infinite quantity isn't observable. it's effectively cut off from the rest of the universe. a singularity isn't allowed to exist.

if time exists, then for any moment in time, a value for the total energy of the universe could be found. the universe is a finite space-time with no physical boundaries.

entropy is observable, and has been validated. this wouldn't be possible in an infinite universe.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Time does not exist. It is man's way of measuring movement over a distance. There is only now and movement. Time is eternal just like the universe.

reply to post by arpgme

um, no.

think of a movie. could you include an infinite amount of anything in a movie? no, because at any time someone could pause the movie at a certain frame, and the value would not be infinite.

time is largely an illusion caused by our limitation to the perception of 3 dimensions, but that doesn't change the fact that an infinite quantity can't exist with time.

the only place it could exist would be at the highest possible dimension.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


It's pointless comparing a movie to the universe because a movie film is not eternal , the universe is...

reply to post by arpgme

so your argument is basically "you're wrong, because i'm right"? i'm offering proofs to try and explain why an infinite quantity can't exist with time. it's absurd.

here. i'll give you an article on it.

abyss.uoregon.edu...

observing a singularity would create paradoxes, so event horizons wall them off from observation so the universe can exist.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


But time is eternal, so the universe is eternal...

I don't believe in the whole concept that the universe began out of nothing. For there to be a BANG, there has to be something to begin with. Scientists call it particle (Higgs Boson), for this to exist or have existed someone must have created it!

Show me something that was created out of nothing? This Higgs Particle that some how PROVES there is no creator is nothing but a way to mis-lead the masses. If you believe this non-sense think about this: This Higgs Partice exists now why? (Providing this findings are true) Because LHC personnel "created it", so if we created this particle, who do you think created the "original" particle for the big bang to take effect?

reply to post by TheEnlightenedOne


First of we don't know if these particles are created....

Second, why does it have to be a "who" instead of a "what

reply to post by arpgme

do you have some evidence for that?

even if time could continue in a straight line forever, the universe would suffer heat death, and mass/energy would eventually become evenly spread, but so thin that no work could be done.

generally speaking, everything that has a beginning has an end.

you're falling into the same trap many string theory physicists have. they don't want to accept the possibility of a creator, so they come up with unprovable theories, (such as our universe being created by two branes colliding in a larger universe).

it's just an attempt to get farther away from accepting a finite beginning, and something that caused the finite beginning.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by TheEnlightenedOne

 

First of we don't know if these particles are created....

Second, why does it have to be a "who" instead of a "what

First, I never said they were created for sure, I said "Providing this findings are true".

Second, because a what implies that it is "man" made. Name me a what that creates something out of nothing! And how that what came to be in the first place!

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Yes, but the universe doesn't have a beginning. Before the expansion there was ALWAYS the big bang, the singularity...

reply to post by TheEnlightenedOne


What does not imply that it was man-made. When you say "who" you make it seem like there was a conscious higher power that created it... We shouldn't assume such things...

Originally posted by arpgme
What does not imply that it was man-made. When you say "who" you make it seem like there was a conscious higher power that created it... We shouldn't assume such things...

You are right, we shouldn't assume such things!

threads like this are always so weird to me- I never understand how they turn into religious discussions.
FTR, I'm a pagan and don't see how it would disprove polytheism either, not that I really care all that much, I believe what I want to believe because I want to.

And I guess that is what lets me keep my science, science, and my religion religion. In my mind they don't have to be in agreement or harmony or anything else. If I had to make one or the other FIT into a box, I'd think one of them wasn't big enough.

NOW.

Does anyone know if this could have anything to do with the news coming out about entanglement?

reply to post by hadriana


I don't think so, entanglement deals with atoms...

Entanglement is some really weird stuff, I can't wait to see how Higgs Boson particles are with each other, will it be a whole set of new physics like quantum and classical? Will something even cooler be discovered than the entanglement?

What exactly ARE these Higgs Bosons? Nothing is smaller than them (theoretically) so what are they actually made of... energy?

Anyway, this is really interesting and I can't wait to hear more....

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

The universe is infinite, eternal... so it doesn't...

i have a friend (he is passed away) who explained God as something like a Principle. He was really brilliant.

Here is a little bit from his explanation. I think it adds to what you were pointing out here.


THE ARITHMETIC ILLUSTRATION

There is a remarkable and magnificent similarity between what is termed God (Fact, Reality, Truth) and the principle of mathematics. Entire philosophic systems have been built around this likeness. Nearly 2,600 years ago the Greek philosopher and mathematician Pythagoras said that no concept more nearly approached Divinity then the principle of arithmetic. He pointed out that nearly every quality attributed to God was clearly expressed for all to see and understand in the simplest fact of arithmetic. Indeed, there is inherent in nature a revealed as well as a hidden harmony that reflects itself under the image of simple mathematical laws.

This similarity aids in understanding more clearly who and what God actually is. It paints a picture considerably more accurate than humanity's anthropomorphic concept. Reader, the arithmetic illustration will help you understand Absolute Reality in such a manner as to free you from all your troubles which are the seeming consequence of ignorance concerning Reality, God.

Examine these parallels. God is spiritual and not material. The principle of arithmetic is not material either. It cannot be seen or weighed on a scale. It cannot be felt or picked up by the hand.

God is omnipresent. You can understand the all-presence of God by contemplating the omnipresence of arithmetic. The principle of arithmetic is everywhere, isn't it? Two plus two is four right where you are this minute. So is everything concerning the principle of arithmetic. It is all at the top of Mount Everest and under the waters of the sea. If one were on the moon or at the bottom of a well, the principle of arithmetic would be there too. There is no place in the universe one can go to escape the principle. It is everywhere, every bit, perfectly present; nowhere is it the least bit absent.

I am sure you cannot imagine a place where addition is present but subtraction is absent or where everything is present except the number five or where two plus two is four and a half. Just as one can easily understand that the entire principle of arithmetic is perfectly present everywhere, so can one comprehend the omnipresent perfection of God.

Can you imagine a personal situation so frustrating that two plus two is four would not be present there? God, Reality, Fact, Principle is present too, no matter where you are nor how terrible the seeming situation.

“Whither shall I go from thy spirit? Or wither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.” (Psalms 139:7-10).

The arithmetic illustration is a means by which one is able to comprehend the continuing presence of perfection everywhere.

---------------

Isn't that interesting? He has more analogies like this too. Anyway, its such an insightful and 'new' way of seeing or understanding the idea of "God".

I had to add this part, it just helps it all to make more sense:

Exactly so, Reality is what Reality is, absolute Truth. It is perfect, harmonious Fact in which there is nothing “that worketh or maketh a lie.” The schoolboy does not blame arithmetic for the errors on his paper, nor does the pianist blame Beethoven if she errs at the piano. So why blame God, the perfect Principle of Being, for the untoward events of life?


Consider Eternity in the light of arithmetic. When did the principle of arithmetic begin? Ponder this a moment and you will see clearly that it had no beginning at all. It has always existed as itself. It is as eternal as existence. And when will it end? What can happen to alter or destroy the principle of arithmetic? Does it get sick? Can it be maimed or crippled? Can it be killed in a war? Can an atom bomb destroy it? If this entire planet were blown to dust by hydrogen weapons, would the principle of arithmetic be affected at all? No. It would still exist untouched and perfect as ever. Two plus two would still be four. It would not be bent in the least.

In exactly this way the Principle of all existence (called God) is eternal, without beginning and without end, indestructible and continuous in being, no matter what the tortured meanderings of human activity. And since the principle continues, so continues all that principle is. As long as there is a principle of arithmetic, addition, subtraction and everything else arithmetic is, continues.

Well, God (Divine Principle, Reality) continues also; hence, all that God is continues. God, the substance and essence of all that is, remains perfect, unabated and untouched—everywhere present, nowhere absent.