How did the 'Estonia' sink 1994?

Good job Helmutt,

I've been reading this for the last week ( never enough time. lol ).

I find truly fascinating that something with so many discrepencies can still be afloat. But... thats what makes em' Conpiracies I guess.

What I find particularly interesting is the fact that this is still 'on-going' even after 12+ years. Unlike other conspiracies where they get fizzled out or just 'covered up' to the point of nothing tangible being availbable to research. This story however, has everything .

Congrats again,

Great job.

I too have been reading this thread and most of the linked material(with much interest), but I can't really come to the difinite conclusion(based on witness accounts and those photos where the link´s not broken) that explosions occurred. Have I missed something ? - Though a lot of witnesses state they heard explosions I think that coupled with the scraping noises they heard as well, it could just as easily have been heavy metal parts crashing down. That is not to say that I don´t think something was covered up, it certainly appears so - whatever it may be... Back when it happened I remember that there was alot of confusion as to the reason of the sinking but the conclusion filtered down to us through the Danish media was incompetent Estonian sailors and a damaged bow ramp/gate - whatever it´s called in English. But as far as I recall they were much more interested in the sole surviving Dane(can't remember if any more was on board though) than the reason.
Anyway, I´m new to this site and I see there´s a lot of interesting reading packed up in here. I´ll put on my sceptical spectacles and maybe pop up a comment/question now and then.

Originally posted by FedtStensDyr

I´ll put on my sceptical spectacles and maybe pop up a comment/question now and then.

Feel free to do so


Btw, while it may not be related, I thought I should mention: One of the helicopter pilots who took part in the M/S Estonia ferry rescue operation died in an accident in August 2005...

Thread here: 14 Killed When Helicopter Crashed Near Estonia (Two of them were Americans)

Remember this post from page 3?

Today Mona Sahlin became the new leader of Sweden's Social Democratic Party. That means she might become the next prime minister of Sweden. And if she does, I expect she will make sure that we will never know the truth about Estonia...

Today, a team probing the sinking of ferry Estonia announced they have found no evidence of any explosion being the cause of the sinking. They'll continue the investigation until October 15 as there are still some unclear issues, like how and why the ferry Estonia were sinking so quickly.

While the report says no explosion, the same report indicates the possiblity.

Estonian report says ferry that sank in 1994 might be carrying weapons

It says weaponry that Estonian officials knew nothing about might have been loaded into the ferryboat’s holds.

Apprehensions of exposure of the cargo might have prompted someone to get rid of it by throwing it overboard, and this was exactly what led to a disaster on the stormy night, Feniks experts surmised.

Questions:
How would throwing weaponry overboard lead to the disaster?

" An explosion on board the ferry can be ruled out , based on the findings of the commission," Estonian Justice Minister Rein Lang told reporters.
Explosion ruled out

Is saying that there was no explosion ON BOARD just semantics? Did the explosion occur just alongside the ferry when the weaponry was thrown overboard? What weapons would explode when exposed to cold saltwater?

Wish I could find that report...


[edit on 3/25/07 by makeitso]

Mona Sahlin held a public speech on May 1st. Some nazis voiced protest, planned to ruin her speech and failed to do so, but that's not important. She said she's going to be Sweden's next Prime minister and she also said she'll support Hamas. I assume that she'll provide no help with finding the truth about the ferry Estonia disaster...

"Explosion could have sunk Estonia".

It's all over the Swedish news right now.

It looks like both a Swedish and a German team investigating the Estonia disaster have come to that conclusion.

Will be interesting to follow the development of this...

Wow IKEA, thanks for the heads-up! I can see this now in many different swedish media. I also found one in english. Here:


Explosion 'could have caused Estonia sinking'

I've found lots of articles in swedish and norwegian, but only two in english. Here's the other english article I've found. From a swedish news site and translated into english (like the other one). Why are english speaking media so silent about this?

Estonia Explosion Not Ruled Out

***

And here's from a blog.

Vilhelm Konnander's weblog: Was M/S Estonia sunk by an explosion?

May 10, 2007

A new Swedish-German expert group on the 1994 M/S Estonia catastrophe does not exclude an explosion as cause of the shipwreck.

[---]

The catastrophe occurred little over a month after the last Russian troops had left Estonian soil. It thus came at an inconvenient moment for Estonia, as the country had just regained full sovereignty over its territory. Consequently, the stage was set for widespread speculations and conspiracy theories.

This blogger doesn't seem to believe that it was any conspiracy involved, but I'm convinced that it was one or more explosions and coverups.

All the recent articles seems to have concluded that the bow visor was the reason for the sinking, because it was found separated from the wreck. However, if there was a coverup, the bow visor might have been separated after the accident to make it look like the cause. We need more divings in order to better examine the wreck. Divings are currently not allowed because it will "disturb the peace" (yeah, right...)

[edit on 2007/5/10 by Hellmutt]

I´m on my way to work so did´nt get a chance to brush up on this subject, but found an interesting article in Danish(there´s almost none), it´s from december and as far as I remember that was the last time the media dealt with the case in any major way. But this states(this could have been stated in other reports, but can´t remember) that Evelyn Sepp(Estonian member of parlament) spoke with Uno Laur on several occasions and up until what must be around october last year he denied that the investigating body(can´t remember what it is called in English)had any knowledge of the military transports onboard Estonia. The spokesperson from the investigating body Magnus Leivo was at that time(december) saying that they(the investigators) were of the oppinion that the cago had onboard Estonia had nothing to do with the sinking. Which Evelyn Sepp is shocked to hear since she´s convinced they have no evidence to prove or disapprove that. But anyways it´s from december and is the most up to date article I can find in Danish at the moment. Pretty weird, but maybe it will sift through to the our media in a couple of days.
avisen.dk...
There is on comment on that article, from a guy obviously not satisfied with prior investigations. He points to a book by Mike Axdals(one of the survivors ?) called arson with goverment funding(Mordbrand med Statsstøtte). Maybe be just an adverticement or it could be a good read.

Just found the webpage for Nautilus, the publisher of the above mentioned book. And the book is about Scandinavian Star, a passenger ship that burned in 1990.The book is about Mike Axdal and his fight for the truth(I guess). In their oppinion it shows something about democracy and justice in Denmark.
Unless it sheds light on a larger scheme Estonia could fit into I don´t think it is of much relevance.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by FedtStensDyr]

I guess this is not directly related to the ferry Estonia disaster, but I thought I should mention it anyway, since this article mentions the ferry Estonia after all. After The Boxing Day Tsunami hit Thailand (, etc.), Dec 26 2004, it took Sweden more than 24 hours to realize that the tsunami could have killed as many swedes as the 1994 ferry Estonia disaster.


Tearful Ambassador alerted Sweden to tsunami


543 swedes died in the tsunami.

Hello all.

I was just wondering if there was any news or developments regarding the M/S Estonia. I know work is being done by safety-at-sea up in Scotland and there have been a few conferences in the past few years. But other than films going missing and Johan Franson insisting the validity of the Joint Accident Investigation Commission’s final report what else has happened recently? It seems to have gone quiet.

I can’t believe that such an important event and it’s subsequently blatant botched investigation can continue to be left ‘as is’? Has enough time passed where is has just been simply accepted, swept under the carpet or become the norm to let it fizzle out… I hope not.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I believe the many conspiracy theories, but there is very obviously some unanswered questions that deserve a answers.

Where is Gregg Bemis in all of this? By the way, is any of his footage from his and Jutta Rabe’s 2000 expedition available to the general public?

All the best.

Originally posted by grinny
By the way, is any of his footage from his and Jutta Rabe’s 2000 expedition available to the general public?

All the best.

You can find the Jutta Rabe documentary here: Google Video

A couple of divers filmed and cut out a piece of a hole found in the hull which has clearly been caused by great force from the INSIDE of the ship. The hull was pushed OUT. The piece was later examined by demolition experts which confirmed that the hole COULD have been caused by an explosion.


[edit on 30-10-2007 by IKEA]

THanks IKEA. I've seen the "google video" but was wondering if there is anything a bit more substantial - to purchase even. I know Bemis was thinking about it to help fund the operation but don't know if any was actually released.

Thanks again.

I just want to add an observation for people who are perhaps naive enough to think that an investigation might blow the lid off a conspiracy such as the sinking of the Estonia. The fashion at the moment in repressing conspiracy theories goes like this:

News story 1: conspiracy theories might be right after all!
News story 2: there could just be something to the conspiracy theories after all!
Ditto for news stories 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.
News story 10: Nope, looks like there was nothing to the conspiracy theories - it was just an accident!

They're doing this right now with the Princess Diana assassination and no doubt will be doing the same again very soon with the David Kelly assassination.

And, by the way, my conclusion is that the explosions that made gaping holes in the Estonia were made by two truck bombs using materials that were being tested for use at Oklahoma City seven months later. If you follow the trail carefully, you'll see it actually leads back to the US. These formerly neutral countries - Sweden and Finland - and the former Soviet-dominated Estonia are covering up for their new friend, the US. The Soviet/Russian secret weapons technology angle is all classic disinformation.


[edit on 4-11-2007 by flipzeppelin]

A new report says the official story was right the whole time. Nothing to see, move along.


Estonia report supports official investigation



I don't believe it

There seems to be a process going on, in order to bury the ferry Estonia conspiracies once and for all. More is now added to the mix, "supporting" the official bow visor story. Another Estonian ferry, the Fantaasia, is now being held back in Gothenburg, Sweden. It's not allowed to leave. The reason is that the ship is in very bad condition. They say it's not safe. It's sounds like they may have avoided "an accident just like Estonia". This is just too convenient...


M/S Fantaasia


Sweden’s inspectors bar Tallink liner from sailing due to numerous defects


A missing backup bolt for the bow visor on Fantaasia!? yeah, right. That indicates that there might have been a missing bolt on the Estonia as well, right? Nope, no way! I still don't believe that the bow visor caused the ferry Estonia to sink. And they also keep mixing the times for when the Estonia started to sink and when Estonia was gone. Now they say they might have been 15 minutes off. How is it possible to not know when Estonia started to sink? There was this NATO exercise and lots of activity. Did nobody notice what time it was? Nobody keep logs? Or are there any reliable logs from this area at all? They're trying to make the official story more believable.

I didn't make this webpage but I think it's the best explanation yet.