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A conspiracy theory for a conspiracy forum.
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Classifying people as truthers only means that you have bought the MSM official line of the truth as they tell it. What does that make you? A "REAL"
truther?
Using the slogan "conspiracy theory" or "conspiracy theorist" means you also buy the MSM "party line" about 911, (or any event) as well. The two words together are a media generated term, making any talk of a conspiracy only a "theory". Any suggestion of other than their "real" truth, only a conspiracy.
Some label others sheeple and truthers and theorists, but it is really the labelers who are just repeating dogma that they heard. God forbid they should question any thing, rather they just tear others down.
Always question authority. If is a good authority it will stand up against your questions and be stronger for it. If it is a lying authority then your questions will expose it for what it really is.
Using the slogan "conspiracy theory" or "conspiracy theorist" means you also buy the MSM "party line" about 911, (or any event) as well. The two words together are a media generated term, making any talk of a conspiracy only a "theory". Any suggestion of other than their "real" truth, only a conspiracy.
Some label others sheeple and truthers and theorists, but it is really the labelers who are just repeating dogma that they heard. God forbid they should question any thing, rather they just tear others down.
Always question authority. If is a good authority it will stand up against your questions and be stronger for it. If it is a lying authority then your questions will expose it for what it really is.
edit on 3-12-2011 by intrptr because: (no reason given)
reply to post by intrptr
"Classifying people as truthers only means that you have bought the MSM official line of the truth as they tell it. What does that make you? A "REAL" truther?"
Truther is the new conspiracy tin foil hat for 9/11 :p Yea alot of the people who use the word truther or "troofer"" lol , are just trying to insult and character assinate before hearinig billy out . Yea alot of them believe the MSM but not all ! lol @ a real truther , then "ultimate universe what the quntum mechanics truther" lol .
There really is no need to result in such tactics , because it taints the poor word "truth" ... and truth is always being being up , covered up , sha t on , disrespected , on a daily basis. HOw dare some use such a word as a negative arrow to them!
"Classifying people as truthers only means that you have bought the MSM official line of the truth as they tell it. What does that make you? A "REAL" truther?"
Truther is the new conspiracy tin foil hat for 9/11 :p Yea alot of the people who use the word truther or "troofer"" lol , are just trying to insult and character assinate before hearinig billy out . Yea alot of them believe the MSM but not all ! lol @ a real truther , then "ultimate universe what the quntum mechanics truther" lol .
There really is no need to result in such tactics , because it taints the poor word "truth" ... and truth is always being being up , covered up , sha t on , disrespected , on a daily basis. HOw dare some use such a word as a negative arrow to them!
reply to post by yourboycal2
Agreed... run, hide, deny. The truth is turned to appear to be a lie, while the lies are repeated over and over so often, we can hardly discern the signal thru the static. Despite all that static though, I still come to places like ATS to get at the real truth of an issue. This is two way truth and dare, unlike the one way Main Stream Media.
Thank you very much all on here for that.
There really is no need to result in such tactics , because it taints the poor word "truth" ... and truth is always being (beaten) up , covered up , sha t on , disrespected , on a daily basis. How dare some use such a word as a negative arrow to them!
Agreed... run, hide, deny. The truth is turned to appear to be a lie, while the lies are repeated over and over so often, we can hardly discern the signal thru the static. Despite all that static though, I still come to places like ATS to get at the real truth of an issue. This is two way truth and dare, unlike the one way Main Stream Media.
Thank you very much all on here for that.
Most facts ( truths ) will shine through, while half baked theories rarely see anything but vague support and of course main stream media
attention.
People need to realize that media vultures feed off of the image of those we have all seen.
Example: einsteinsandidiots.com...
If we try to verify facts instead of feeding unproven ideas, we would all be in a better position to ask the serious questions.
Just my 2 cents.
People need to realize that media vultures feed off of the image of those we have all seen.
Example: einsteinsandidiots.com...
If we try to verify facts instead of feeding unproven ideas, we would all be in a better position to ask the serious questions.
Just my 2 cents.
Originally posted by LDS911
Most facts ( truths ) will shine through, while half baked theories rarely see anything but vague support and of course main stream media attention.
People need to realize that media vultures feed off of the image of those we have all seen.
Example: einsteinsandidiots.com...
If we try to verify facts instead of feeding unproven ideas, we would all be in a better position to ask the serious questions.
Just my 2 cents.
Thank you for that reply and the link. A snippet from it:
Life inside our own Galaxy, let alone the entire Universe, is not only possible but highly probable. The technology to travel the distances required to “visit” our little blue planet does not exist here.
However, that statement in and of itself is ridiculous. It assumes we are the most advanced beings in our universe.
One theory is that alien life has been here all along. Another, poses the idea that earth itself was seeded by life elsewhere.
I like to think though that we are being visited. Do I have grounds for that belief, no I do not. But it is a fun thought to have.
The Truth Is Out There…. But, we may never know it.
Good two cents worth. The truth is out there, but we may never know it.
Another realm of the Unknown Truths. The repressed truths, the conspiracy theories, etc. UFO's are the most MSM bashed theory of them all. Little green men... Hah! (insert "Twilight Zone" theme)
Originally posted by intrptr
Originally posted by LDS911
Most facts ( truths ) will shine through, while half baked theories rarely see anything but vague support and of course main stream media attention.
People need to realize that media vultures feed off of the image of those we have all seen.
Example: einsteinsandidiots.com...
If we try to verify facts instead of feeding unproven ideas, we would all be in a better position to ask the serious questions.
Just my 2 cents.
Thank you for that reply and the link. A snippet from it:
Life inside our own Galaxy, let alone the entire Universe, is not only possible but highly probable. The technology to travel the distances required to “visit” our little blue planet does not exist here.
However, that statement in and of itself is ridiculous. It assumes we are the most advanced beings in our universe.
One theory is that alien life has been here all along. Another, poses the idea that earth itself was seeded by life elsewhere.
I like to think though that we are being visited. Do I have grounds for that belief, no I do not. But it is a fun thought to have.
The Truth Is Out There…. But, we may never know it.
Good two cents worth. The truth is out there, but we may never know it.
Another realm of the Unknown Truths. The repressed truths, the conspiracy theories, etc. UFO's are the most MSM bashed theory of them all. Little green men... Hah! (insert "Twilight Zone" theme)
The link to that page was to highlight the first video there, as it relates to what MSM use's as there go to image, from those outside the paradigm of the lemmings.
reply to post by intrptr
Great post, I agree with you, I have been called, Truther, delusional, nut-job, wacko, insane, crackpot, and living in a fantasy world, right here on ATS and it is in many of the 911 threads. Trying to expose the truth is very hard when you are up against trolls, deniers, patriotic believers, juveniles who do not care about the truth.
Great post, I agree with you, I have been called, Truther, delusional, nut-job, wacko, insane, crackpot, and living in a fantasy world, right here on ATS and it is in many of the 911 threads. Trying to expose the truth is very hard when you are up against trolls, deniers, patriotic believers, juveniles who do not care about the truth.
edit on 4-12-2011 by impressme because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by intrptr
Great post, I agree with you, I have been called, Truther, delusional, nut-job, wacko, insane, crackpot, and living in a fantasy world, right here on ATS and it is in many of the 911 threads. Trying to expose the truth is very hard when you are up against trolls, deniers, patriotic believers, juveniles who do not care about truth.
Thanks for your reply. Thats why I started this one. What makes it worth it is the once in a while fellow "unbeliever" that sees it the same way. Better a ray of sunshine amidst a storm of negativity, than being silenced and not being able to speak at all? Your message does get across here...there. Thats the reward. Opening eyes. Good for you. If MSM had their way we would not even be conversing right now. So I'll take the arrows.
reply to post by impressme
It has been my observation that the labels themselves -- on both sides of the issue -- are often the trigger that shifts the focus from the topic to the individual. I think it's true on many of the forums, however particularly true with the 9/11 forum. Many times I can recall reading a thread, and it has flow, and information is being discussed, and then the dreaded label is tossed out.... often from there tempers flare, and the thread goes downhill, or at least to a less productive discussion.
I think that often people don't really realize they are using a label, or perhaps it has become second-nature to do so. Labels infer a generalization -- that the person is the same as others pushed kicking and screaming into that box. None of us feel that way. If a person considers themselves a "truther", they are first an individual with unique skill sets, ideas and views. For that reason, I personally don't care for the term "truther" -- or any label -- because of the generalization implied, and the shift of focus away from the topic.
I rarely use these mod tags that are around my post, however I wanted to be certain that it was viewed as a member post, and not a moderator post. With or without the moderator tags, mods cannot moderate in threads they have participated in as members.
I think if we all look at our posts with fresh eyes, we might see that very labeling occurring. Perhaps sometimes it might even seem ironic -- to dislike only SOME labels. a "troll" isn't merely the antithisis of what we strongly believe in. A person questioning some generally-supported ideas isn't automatically a "debunker" or "OS supporter". "Truther" can be used as an insult, depending upon context. We fit within these labels if we voluntarily put them on, but not when used like weapons to marginalize our opinions by someone else.
Sometimes it seems like people embrace familiar patterns, use standard arguments, and perhaps get in each others' way from actually discussing the topic.
Sorry for the windy post. I've been wanting to say this for a long time. Personally, I have questions still about the events surrounding 9/11, but rarely get involved in discussions for the above reasons. I don't want to be part of either "side's" team. I just want the truth, as discovered through thoughtful discussion.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
It has been my observation that the labels themselves -- on both sides of the issue -- are often the trigger that shifts the focus from the topic to the individual. I think it's true on many of the forums, however particularly true with the 9/11 forum. Many times I can recall reading a thread, and it has flow, and information is being discussed, and then the dreaded label is tossed out.... often from there tempers flare, and the thread goes downhill, or at least to a less productive discussion.
I think that often people don't really realize they are using a label, or perhaps it has become second-nature to do so. Labels infer a generalization -- that the person is the same as others pushed kicking and screaming into that box. None of us feel that way. If a person considers themselves a "truther", they are first an individual with unique skill sets, ideas and views. For that reason, I personally don't care for the term "truther" -- or any label -- because of the generalization implied, and the shift of focus away from the topic.
I rarely use these mod tags that are around my post, however I wanted to be certain that it was viewed as a member post, and not a moderator post. With or without the moderator tags, mods cannot moderate in threads they have participated in as members.
I think if we all look at our posts with fresh eyes, we might see that very labeling occurring. Perhaps sometimes it might even seem ironic -- to dislike only SOME labels. a "troll" isn't merely the antithisis of what we strongly believe in. A person questioning some generally-supported ideas isn't automatically a "debunker" or "OS supporter". "Truther" can be used as an insult, depending upon context. We fit within these labels if we voluntarily put them on, but not when used like weapons to marginalize our opinions by someone else.
Sometimes it seems like people embrace familiar patterns, use standard arguments, and perhaps get in each others' way from actually discussing the topic.
Sorry for the windy post. I've been wanting to say this for a long time. Personally, I have questions still about the events surrounding 9/11, but rarely get involved in discussions for the above reasons. I don't want to be part of either "side's" team. I just want the truth, as discovered through thoughtful discussion.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
reply to post by intrptr
Ultimately the only AUTHORITY in this issue is PHYSICS.
The 9/11 decade has turned this into a bizarre psychological issue. Astronomers may not have anything to do with skyscrapers but astronomers have to know about gravity. Shouldn't any astronomer be able to explain how a 1300 foot building built on the Moon could be different from a 1300 foot building built on Earth?
Isaac Newton's birthday is coming up. The physics of this problem is too fundamental.
It is getting to the point that most of our scientists deserve to be laughed at. But who finances projects like that Mars robotic explorer?
marsrover.nasa.gov...
Look at that first picture. It says, "Tributes to Terrorism Victims Are on Mars."
psik
Ultimately the only AUTHORITY in this issue is PHYSICS.
The 9/11 decade has turned this into a bizarre psychological issue. Astronomers may not have anything to do with skyscrapers but astronomers have to know about gravity. Shouldn't any astronomer be able to explain how a 1300 foot building built on the Moon could be different from a 1300 foot building built on Earth?
Isaac Newton's birthday is coming up. The physics of this problem is too fundamental.
It is getting to the point that most of our scientists deserve to be laughed at. But who finances projects like that Mars robotic explorer?
marsrover.nasa.gov...
Look at that first picture. It says, "Tributes to Terrorism Victims Are on Mars."
psik
I think the biggest issue ever present in the field is that people on this forum think in very different manners. Every one of them thinks that their
method of thinking is the most correct, and the ones who think alike band together, on either side, starring each-others' posts almost
religiously.
This is where the term Truther and OS'er come in. Both are fairly derogatory now, due to their usage in arguments as distractions based on the individual, but they are still keeping people in groups, and it kind of helps people argue together.
But really, there are essentially three groups. You have the Truther, who accepts the most common ideas about 9/11 such as demolitions and thermite. Then, you have the No-Planer, who denies that planes could have existed at all. Then, you have the OS'er, who isn't convinced about the conspiracy theory and tries to show the problems he/she has with the points made by Truthers and No-Planers.
Funny thing is, while these groups can be classified, the people within them are as diverse as they come. A few people believe that everything the government said was right (though this is a rarity for certain). Pretty much everyone (including myself) see a conspiracy in the government letting the attack happen, while others think it was just negligence and bad communication. Among the Truthers and No-Planers you have divisions about what explosives might have been used, and whether it was a missile plane or a missile missile.
It is extremely heated because it's very hard to agree when it comes to this, and it's sad to see so many people resort to name-calling and denigration of the members here simply due to a disagreement.
This is where the term Truther and OS'er come in. Both are fairly derogatory now, due to their usage in arguments as distractions based on the individual, but they are still keeping people in groups, and it kind of helps people argue together.
But really, there are essentially three groups. You have the Truther, who accepts the most common ideas about 9/11 such as demolitions and thermite. Then, you have the No-Planer, who denies that planes could have existed at all. Then, you have the OS'er, who isn't convinced about the conspiracy theory and tries to show the problems he/she has with the points made by Truthers and No-Planers.
Funny thing is, while these groups can be classified, the people within them are as diverse as they come. A few people believe that everything the government said was right (though this is a rarity for certain). Pretty much everyone (including myself) see a conspiracy in the government letting the attack happen, while others think it was just negligence and bad communication. Among the Truthers and No-Planers you have divisions about what explosives might have been used, and whether it was a missile plane or a missile missile.
It is extremely heated because it's very hard to agree when it comes to this, and it's sad to see so many people resort to name-calling and denigration of the members here simply due to a disagreement.
Originally posted by Varemia
But really, there are essentially three groups. You have the Truther, who accepts the most common ideas about 9/11 such as demolitions and thermite. Then, you have the No-Planer, who denies that planes could have existed at all. Then, you have the OS'er, who isn't convinced about the conspiracy theory and tries to show the problems he/she has with the points made by Truthers and No-Planers.
What bullsh#!!!
The buildings had to hold themselves up. So no matter what destroyed them the designers had to figure out how to distribute the steel so they would stay up. And gravity is pretty much the same all over the planet.
It is totally ridiculous that this was not resolved in 2002.
psik
reply to post by argentus
Too bad, Sounds like you would be intelligent and thoughtful when discussing. I too wish the labels could just sit on the bench instead of being used to make personal attacks. 911 is a sensitive subject. Brings out the best and worst in a forum. It's hard sometimes to take abuse without feeling the need to defend ones position or respond in kind.
Practicing that kind of patience has been a good thing for me. Internet forums are a good training ground for learning patience and withholding judgment. Thank you for adding your view.
Personally, I have questions still about the events surrounding 9/11, but rarely get involved in discussions for the above reasons. I don't want to be part of either "side's" team. I just want the truth, as discovered through thoughtful discussion.
Too bad, Sounds like you would be intelligent and thoughtful when discussing. I too wish the labels could just sit on the bench instead of being used to make personal attacks. 911 is a sensitive subject. Brings out the best and worst in a forum. It's hard sometimes to take abuse without feeling the need to defend ones position or respond in kind.
Practicing that kind of patience has been a good thing for me. Internet forums are a good training ground for learning patience and withholding judgment. Thank you for adding your view.
reply to post by Varemia
Thank you for that. How can we drain the swamp when we are up to our arse in alligators? People who insist on their "rightness" to the point of degrading others lose the value of their message. If I insult you and then tell you some truth, what do you remember? If we disagree without being disagreeable, then the truth can come out.
...and it's sad to see so many people resort to name-calling and denigration of the members here simply due to a disagreement.
Thank you for that. How can we drain the swamp when we are up to our arse in alligators? People who insist on their "rightness" to the point of degrading others lose the value of their message. If I insult you and then tell you some truth, what do you remember? If we disagree without being disagreeable, then the truth can come out.
Good points all, Intprtr. Not trying to hijack your point or thread, but we all come from our experientially informed belief, don't we. In other
words, I think we are traveling in a time/historical circle, from the macrocosm to the microcosm. Having said that and not wanting to debate it here,
because it is not what your thread is about--however, it totally changes, flavors or contaminates (however one would wish to see that information
through their personal filter of belief) your assessment, and others of that event,
In other words, I,given what I just described, may feel it already happened, perhaps even more than once, and we are just here re-spinning it so we can re-assess the blame, and punish and expose certain others of specific mind-sets while we relive it yet again.
In other words, I,given what I just described, may feel it already happened, perhaps even more than once, and we are just here re-spinning it so we can re-assess the blame, and punish and expose certain others of specific mind-sets while we relive it yet again.
edit on 4-12-2011 by
tetra50 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by tetra50
Been there, done that, got the tshirt... OK
Like, history repeats or rhymes, right?
Then we must say it again and again for the benefit of those who are listening but have not yet understood. Our words reach places on the internet (around the world) that we will never know and light bulbs are blinking on all over the place (I hope).
Been there, done that, got the tshirt... OK
Like, history repeats or rhymes, right?
Then we must say it again and again for the benefit of those who are listening but have not yet understood. Our words reach places on the internet (around the world) that we will never know and light bulbs are blinking on all over the place (I hope).
reply to post by intrptr
The official story contains very little 'truth'. Those who continue to back it's authenticity are by association, suspect. At this late stage
there can be only three classifications: Incredibly stupid, misinformed or traitor. The tragedy was used as an excuse to invade countries and
systematically dismantle our constitution. It took 70 years for Pearl Harbor to be 'outed', but this time it's not gonna' be as easy.
Every now and then you need to step back and see what is going on. I don't think we have the full story, but I certainly do think that hijackers flew
planes into the buildings. From my view I see this:
"I believe the official story and truthers are nuts." Why? "MSM told me so."
"I believe there is a big 9/11 conspiracy and OS'ers are in denial." Why? "Websites told me."
Which one is more correct?
NEITHER!!!!!!!!!!!
They are two unbending views that refuse to consider anything outside of that view. That's why you have labels being thrown about. Any time someone from either side of the argument brings up a valid point, the other side will cry out with labels and an outright refusal to consider the point.
"I believe the official story and truthers are nuts." Why? "MSM told me so."
"I believe there is a big 9/11 conspiracy and OS'ers are in denial." Why? "Websites told me."
Which one is more correct?
NEITHER!!!!!!!!!!!
They are two unbending views that refuse to consider anything outside of that view. That's why you have labels being thrown about. Any time someone from either side of the argument brings up a valid point, the other side will cry out with labels and an outright refusal to consider the point.
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