5 Graphs That Will Make Your Mouth Drop!

Originally posted by peck420
What you really want to do is limit free trade to countries with equal standards and rules.

Free trade between countries with similar standards (such as Canada and the US) have been very beneficial to all parties so far.

Whereas China not only manipulates it currency to be under-valued (thereby increasing the cost of US goods in China and decreasing the cost of Chinese goods in the USA), it also greatly restricts Chinese capital from flowing out of China to be invested in the West.

Resulting in
(i) US exports to China being artificially low,
(ii) Chinese exports to the US being artificially high,
(iii) US capital building Chinese factories but
(iv) Chinese capital not able to build US factories.

End result is that industry flows to China, China gets richer and the US gets poorer. US unemployment rises.

What bunch of clowns in the US and the EU signed the West up to 'free trade' with a one sided deal like that?

How can this be?

The FOX Business channel tells us...
1 The recession ended in June, 2009.
2 Unemployment rate dropped sharpley last month.
3 Business is reporting record profits
4 Stock market is soaring
5 Happy days are here again.

The graphs say essentially what I have been saying on several threads.

Unemployment continues to increase, while being under reported in the press.

The money supply is expanding at an ever increasing rate, and this can not continue. What happens when the derivatives market explodes?

There are more problems than you can shake a stick at. The trade agreements are definitely one, The size of the bite the investment market takes out of the US. economy is an even bigger problem.

Then there is the one way flow of immigration into first world nations. This can not continue as well.

The answer to our problems isn't that hard at all. Renegotiate the trade treaties, shut down immigration into our country so that there an equal flow in and out, raise taxes on the super rich, puts strict laws in place on the financial sector to clean up white collar crime, start going after the employers of illegals so that the exploitative jobs for illegals dry up and the illegals all make their way home. This would be a start.

Then start a rebuild of our nations infrastructure in response to the ongoing decline in oil production, in order to adapt to a planet on which all the easy to get sweet crude has been used up.

reply to post by poet1b


My God, you have quite a list there to reform what is not reformable, imo.

If you can not reform it (and you can't)...do what the Icelandic nation did.

Refuse to turn your nation over to the banksters. Cancel the so-called debt of the central bank. Eliminate the Federal Reserve and issue warrents for the arrest of the elite banksters responsible for the problem in the first place (if they ever dare return to your nation).

Check it out. Iceland did all the above and they are living just fine.

reply to post by romanmel


The U.S., and other western nations, have fixed these types of problems many times in the past, using the exact same formula, and we can do it again.

People need to wake up to the reality that they don't have to be slaves.

Hyperinflation has purpose to steal valuables from people (forces them to sell cheap) and create cheap labor. That's what's going on.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Hyperinflation has purpose to steal valuables from people (forces them to sell cheap) and create cheap labor. That's what's going on.

Printing money is a transfer of wealth from savers (inflation anyone?) to the government which sees the value of its debt decreasing in real terms.

The US exporting inflation aboard however, due to the dollar being the world's reserve currency and most business being transacted in dollars, has had the happy effect of exporting inflation to China.

Apparently, from what I have heard from people who live there, inflation is really bad in China.

Despite the Chinese routinely lying about economic figures, official Chinese figures state that the Chinese manufacturing sector is starting to shrink.

China’s Manufacturing Decline For First Time Since Feb. 2009

How is it that in two of those charts the rating line doesn't start till the late 1940's?
We had a 100% employment rate in the 1940's?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by romanmel

 

The U.S., and other western nations, have fixed these types of problems many times in the past, using the exact same formula, and we can do it again.

Really?
Show me one point in time in the last 90 years (since the FED was created) that we "fixed" the debt problem.
All we ever do is increase the debt limit (69 times in the last 90 years), print more paper money and kick the can down the road. That "formula" doesn't work.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by ANOK

 

There have been serious issues with worker owned production as well.

Name one, and we can discuss it. No system is perfect, to expect it to be is naive.

Trying to run a worker owned company within a capitalist system is not that easy, and the fact that despite that there are some very successful worker owned companies around the world, including the USA, should tell you something.

Worker owned just takes the power out of the hands of the minority capitalist class, and makes for a more even fair playing field.

There is no right way as long as we keep working in extremes...all private owned (current) or all worker owned (proposed).

How is that extremes? It's either one or the other, there is no in between. Private ownership, or worker ownership. It determines where the profit goes that labour creates, why should most of what we produce go to someone else, the private owner?

What we need is a balance. But, that is very very difficult to maintain. We had a very good balance in my home province for a pretty good run (about 40 years) but the balance has started to shift to worker owned, and it is already starting to show it's weakness'.

This is why nothing changes, because you are all looking for compromises that are just not going to happen. Capitalist motivation is profit, and that is not going to change, unless you expect capitalists to suddenly become altruistic, and then they'd be labeled bleeding heart liberals. Not going to happen. They start wars to make sure that doesn't happen, that is the extent that will go to to maintain their hold on the economy.

I am at a loss as to how to get a stable balance arrangement, first country to figure it out will win, imho.

You are at a loss because you are confused. You have all been raised to except capitalism as freedom etc. It is difficult to shake that mindset and be truly critical of it, and open minded to other ideas, that you have been lied to about. It didn't come easy to me either.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
reply to post by peck420

 

Their one in the same. More money on the market, less the value will become. the fact that the Quantity is growing expediential should scare everyone. High quantity, lower value

edit on 2-12-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Nevermind if any 2 of the graphs relate or not...just look at the first one, amount of $ in circulation, and that almost straight-upwards climb at the very end should be pretty concerning to us all.

Originally posted by Logman
If anyone thinks America is NOT headed for hyper-inflation, they know little about economics and geopolitics and history.

Fixed.

reply to post by romanmel


Easy, 1950ties the U.S. was deeper in debt than they are now, the U.S. paid to rebuild its former enemies, fought a war in Korea, and built up our nations infrastructure, while paying down the debt.

The did it with high taxes on the rich, and strong regulations, and minimal immigration.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Yeah. LIke what Brazil, Argentina and Sri Lanka did back then. They all went screaming "BUY LOCAL". As a result few traded with them and they all stagnated and are nothing more than banana republics now.

btw, you only had the greatest manufacturing sector in the 50s because the superior nations of Germany and Japan were in ruins.

Originally posted by peck420
You better tell that to Germany. The have (arguably) an equal standard of living as the US with a thriving manufacturing sector.

Well, that's Germany aka the greatest engineering nation in the world. Even ahead of Japan. America should just stick to making computer animated penguin films.

Originally posted by relyt
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Well here is Germany and Zimbabwe's charts for ya and they do not look good.
German Hyperinflation
Zimbabwe

Also here is a good video from Chris Martenson to also explain what we are going through right now.

edit on 2-12-2011 by relyt because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-12-2011 by relyt because: misspell of video author

My roomate was watching this the other day and I only got the chance to watch the last part of the question/answer section. He has since asked me on several occasions if I had watched it yet and I had not. I then saw this video and saw Martenson was the speaker and knowing that he was the person in the video my roomate showed me it made me curious to see what else he had to say. Go figure it was the exact video in which my roomate had been asking me to watch.

This video is important and deserves much more attention. I hope you dont mind that I create a thread where this video is the topic (I will come back here to link the thread).


As promised here is a thread: where we can discuss this video. Its a saturday night take 40 minutes out of your night to watch the presentation and another 30 for the Q&A which is equally as informative!
Peace
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by romanmel

 

Easy, 1950ties the U.S. was deeper in debt than they are now, the U.S. paid to rebuild its former enemies, fought a war in Korea, and built up our nations infrastructure, while paying down the debt.

The did it with high taxes on the rich, and strong regulations, and minimal immigration.

You really need to check sources. Just pulling ideas out of the air accomplishes little.

Explore my sources (Official US Government):

www.treasurydirect.gov...
www.treasurydirect.gov...

You will note the debt in 1950 was $ 257,357,352,351.04
You will note the debt in 1999 was $ 5,656,270,901,615.43
You will note the debt in 2010 was $ 13,561,623,030,891.79

The debt today is over fifty-two times as great in 2010 than was the case in 1950.

reply to post by ANOK


Nice post.

I think the solution will be production on a much smaller scale. Early industrial revolution required big machines for mass production, thus the creation of big corporations.

With automation, mass production could be done in a small warehouse.

With far more efficient aims in production, we wouldn't need massive centralized energy structures. Everything, including automobiles, could be produced locally, designed to last a lot longer, and built more around smaller business models. Windmills producing electricity and compressed air for energy when the wind isn't blowing, lightweight vehicles, smaller communities, shorter commutes, kids able to go out and play, hemp production of bio-diesel, paper, and cloth. This is true market economics, and true capitalism.

With the giant ICB parasites, no one really owns anything, so it isn't capitalism. No one is held responsible for their decisions, it is all one giant financial dog eat dog mess.

The sooner we get rid of giant corporations, the better off we will be.

reply to post by romanmel


Your sources back up my claims. Look at debt in ratio to GDP, which is the critical measure, and you can see that in 1945, the U.S. was at 100% of GDP, which is higher than it is now. By 1960, that debt had been reduced to a negligible amount, which means too low to be significant, what you would expect to see from a business that is essentially, not in debt.

I didn't make anything up, I researched this information long ago.

reply to post by eldard


Brazil is doing fairly well these days, and buying local did improve their situation.

Back in the 50ties, there wasn't much of a world economy, and the U.S. had a couple of recessions. After Germany and Japan got back up and running in the sixties, then things really took off.