Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

Hi Predator For me I don't ridicule atheists or scientists who have opinions that there is no god or anything. I think they are absolutely needed. They challenge us to think harder, longer, deeper about things. And oftentimes I can't find even any criticism of their train of thought. The only people I ridicule are those who have no respect for me and would take away my choice of what to believe or not to believe.

Originally posted by autowrench
I urge gabby and colbe to read this, and comment.

Did Christianity borrow ideas from other religions? If you're like me, you grew up thinking it didn't. We were taught Christianity began with a big bang—with Jesus. Jesus changed the world with ideas about God that were new and revolutionary.

It ain't so. Our Christianity doesn't come from Jesus and a big bang. It comes from the accumulation of legends and theologies by people who believed in Jesus. The origin of those ideas wasn't Jesus. The origin was the myths, legends, philosophies, prejudices, literature, superstitions, and primitive cosmology of ancient western culture. Christianity was a product of its time and place.

I completely agree with this. There are themes that have been running in all religions throughout all time. Each new religion pulls what it wishes from what went before and mixes it up/stirs it in the pot in a new way. That is what I feel Christianity did. Its what Muhammad did too.

To follow just one train of thought in the Bible you gotta go back. The Jewish people believed in making sacrifices to God. (They like many early religions of that time and before were still into sacrificing animals). When Christianity came along that was one of the major themes they were gonna address and adjust in the new religion. Christianity took what was in the Jewish religion...kept some of the ideas and added a new player to the mix --Jesus. Jesus said (among other things) that the Jews didn't need to keep on making so many bloody sacrifices. That he was to be the sacrifice to end all sacrifices (paraphrasing). There were some other themes in there too. But that was the biggest one. His basic mission was to do away with sacrifices.

Muhammad came after Jesus and another religion was born. He took what Jesus did and the Jewish people believed and mixed it up once again. A lot of the Christian Bible is in the Koran. They also believe in Jesus (but as a prophet) and Mary and many of the same stories told in the Bible are told in the Koran. But they put a new spin on it and added new rules and so forth.

Religion evolves. And that is how it happens.

I'm pretty sure most people don't claim that Jesus is from a pegan religion ( I myself don't believe in any god but do believe that Jesus was a real person. just not divine.) Its the practices and holiday's that are copied from pagan religions.

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by arpgme

 

Replying about knowing when Our Lord was born. Of course the first
Christians would know the Savior's birth. I ask, what mother forgets the
date of her child's birth? Mary knew the Apostles, the Gospel writers,
she would share the date with them.

And from the Church Fathers, the first Christians...thanks Taylor Marshall. _ _ _


The Church Fathers Testify to December 25

In the previous post, we showed that Christmas could not have been a Christian attempt to replace a pagan holiday with a newly minted Christian holiday. Further testimony reveals that Catholics claimed December 25 as the Birthday of Christ prior to the conversion of Constantine and the Roman Empire.

For example, Saint Hippolytus writes in passing that the birth of Christ occurred on a Wednesday on December 25. Saint Hippolytus wrote this sometime between A.D. 200 and 211! Here's the quote:

"The First Advent of our Lord in the flesh occurred when He was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, a Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, which is five thousand and five hundred years from Adam. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls."

- Saint Hippolytus of Rome, Commentary on Daniel

Also note in the quote above the special significance of March 25, which marks the death of Christ (March 25 was seen to correspond to the Hebrew month Nisan 14 - the traditional date of crucifixion).**

Christ, as the perfect man, was believed to have been conceived and died on the same day (March 25). In his Chronicon, Saint Hippolytus states that the earth was created on March 25, 5500 B.C. Thus, March 25 was identified by the Church Fathers as:

the Creation date of the World
the date of the Annunciation and Incarnation of Christ
the date of the Death of Christ our Savior

In the Syrian Church March 25 or the Feast of the Annunciation was seen as one of the most important feasts of the entire year. It denoted the day that God took up his abode in the womb of the Virgin. In fact, if the Annunciation and Good Friday came into conflict on the calendar, the Annunciation trumped it - so important was the day in the Syrian tradition! It goes without saying that the Syrian Church preserved some of the most ancient Christian traditions and had a sweet and profound devotion for Mary and the Incarnation of Christ.

Now then, March 25 was enshrined in the early Christian tradition and from this date it is easy to discern the date of Christ's birth. March 25 (Christ conceived by the Holy Ghost) plus nine months brings us to December 25 (the birth of Christ at Bethlehem).

Saint Augustine confirms this tradition of March 25 as the Messianic conception and December 25 as His birth:

“For Christ is believed to have been conceived on the 25th of March, upon which day also he suffered; so the womb of the Virgin, in which he was conceived, where no one of mortals was begotten, corresponds to the new grave in which he was buried, wherein was never man laid, neither before him nor since. But he was born, according to tradition, upon December the 25th.”

- Saint Augustine, De trinitate, Book 4, 5.

Perfect example above. Yes, Mary would know and she would share it.

Ridiculous, to claim the Truth of Christ came from Paganism.
No way. As if the first Christians didn't know when and how Jesus was born, the same for the time of and details on his suffering death for all of humanity. Goes with the pride of every generation thinking they are the smartest.



\

Colbe, The first Christians are DEAD. All of the players in the Bible are DEAD. While they were alive they were no better than the rest of us. The Bible did not fall down from the sky completely written. The Bible is myth told by people no better (and in many ways a lot worse) than people today.

You put all your faith in a bunch of words that were received by what your church would call imperfect human beings. Words Colbe... just words. That thing that causes wars. And they are words that make hearts cold because they come not from love, not from a loving God, but from a very divisive one.

Faith is of the heart. It needs no words. It only listens for and responds to love.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by HangTheTraitors

 

What is Week is not knowing that every doctrine of Christianity isn't just NT. But are fortold in the OT
Zech:12-10
Isiah:7-14
Psalm 22
Lev: 17-11
Psalm:16-10
Hab:2-4

Then you have the eyewitnesses recording that Jesus fulfilled all those prophecies.
As well as what he taught and his life and his death and his resurrection.
Historically. Exceptions to Mathew and Mark who were directed by eyewitnesses.

So this arguement is really beyond week. It's completely pathetic. From your camp.

Wow what a flexible feast you guys have. When you want to you denounce the Old testement a superceded by the New and therefore irrelevant and now because it suits your argument you now make it highly relevant. Well we can easily take the OT apart starting with Leviticus!

THe overall problem with the bible is that anyone can use it to justify anything including genocide ( Check out the canaanite's demise) Animal cruelty Several places. Child abuse (read YOUR bible) etc etc.

There are NO eyewitness accounts of the birth of Jesus that have been written by the eyewitnesses. If some Xtians knew their bibles as the brag they would now that the gospels are always "according to". Anyway here in the real world those who work with interpreting events know the hardest thing to do is to find out what happened and why because everyone has bad memory and everyone has their own agenda!

Frankly it is easier to believe that the "Jesus template" was seen in previous pagan religions. Even Xtian academics have ripped holes in the nativity apart from a grand conjunction that gave the special star, which was a verifiable astrological event.

Sheesh didn't anyone watch the discovery channel Xmas eve???

Originally posted by Tiger5
Sheesh didn't anyone watch the discovery channel Xmas eve???

edit on 27-12-2011 by Tiger5 because: (no reason given)

Hi Tiger No I didn't see it myself. We don't have Discovery channel but I did catch a travel show that went to Rome and inside the Vatican. It made me sick to tell you the truth. All that wealth and all those sculptures and things that were taken when the Church went in....its never mentioned those are stolen.

People are starving and children are wandering the streets alone but its good to know that the church fathers live in the lap of luxury and get good nights sleep

And the Vatican continues to rake in the money. All the tourists that visit that place..that alone on any given day could feed a multitude.

This is just my personal beleife that Jesus was a practacing budhist trying to change the world into a better place. People can argue all day on wether or not he was real or not but regardless I believe he wanted to change thingd for the better. let us discard the rituals and aspire to be better people like I am sure is what he wanted. Why is that so hard to accept. Aside fro the churches fear of loseing power.

reply to post by arpgme


You'll probably be able to appreciate this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by arpgme
Mithra was NOT born of a virgin like Jesus, he was born from a ROCK!

It is true that December 25 is a Pagan thing for the solstice, BUT, Jesus could NOT be born in the winter if you read The Bible...

Krishna was NEVER pronounced "Chrishta" and was NOT resurrected! You can read the Hindu scriptures themselves for proof!

As for the story of Horus, he was NOT the only son of God... And his story does NOT mimic's Jesus...

As for the Greek God Attis, the stories about him being resurrected came AFTER Jesus.

Justin Martyr even admitted that the Pagans were COPYING stories of Christianity and they were NOT there before...

They created these stories to create and opposition against Christianity...


By the way, do you know what the word opposition means in Hebrew!? SATAN!

By the way, the lady that created Zeitgeist is a Satanist wanting to get rid of Christianity and create a Utopian world. Doesn't that story sound familiar like the book of revelations?

What do you think of this? Can anyone refute this refutation! You be the Judge!

I have talked crap about the Jesus story because I didn't actually do research and just believed Zeitgeist! Please if you can disprove what I said, otherwise the evidence stands that the Pagans ADDED Christian like storied AFTER Christianity was...

You know how they say that the bible says that the world is flat?

It does NOT! The world "Earth" also simply meant "Land", it was not a reference to the planet but the nations or the lands!

Also, JESUS CHRIST said that no one has went to heaven but him, so what about Elijah?

Elijah ascended up to the sky NOT heaven! The word for heaven was not used there.

Christian Apologetics are making me think that maybe Jesus is true... What do you think?

edit on 2-12-2011 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

I did similar research earlier on in 2011, I had always avoided the bother with Christianity but figuratively speaking I awoke with the impulse, and what I discovered both directly and indirectly about religion Christianity, everyday life and myself along the way, has been absolutely phenomenal.

Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by Tiger5
Sheesh didn't anyone watch the discovery channel Xmas eve???

edit on 27-12-2011 by Tiger5 because: (no reason given)

Hi Tiger

No I didn't see it myself. We don't have Discovery channel but I did catch a travel show that went to Rome and inside the Vatican. It made me sick to tell you the truth. All that wealth and all those sculptures and things that were taken when the Church went in....its never mentioned those are stolen.

People are starving and children are wandering the streets alone but its good to know that the church fathers live in the lap of luxury and get good nights sleep

And the Vatican continues to rake in the money. All the tourists that visit that place..that alone on any given day could feed a multitude.

You are mistaken. Nothing is stolen in the Vatican. Unlike you, people
give their lives, their talents to honor and love Christ.

Yes, did you know, the Church charges you to go through the Basilica and they make a mint! teee..heee. LOL. Stupida....

The Catholics have left this thread, keeping up with your disdain for the Church though LuanaK.

I don't know about the present Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI but Pope John Paul II lived in a very austere manner. The artwork and gold are to honor God. It is God's house. Jesus is there in the Tabernacle at St. Peters as in every Catholic Church. Famous artists we all know produced the most beautiful sculpture and paintings to honor God.

Throughout history, the hospitals, remember driving by one or twenty of them named after saints? Catholic Relief Services is one of the oldest if not the oldest charity, worldwide.

Fallen away Catholics are the biggest anti-Catholics. Never believe
a word they say about the faith. If they really knew the faith, they would not of left.

If just before sunrise on the spring equinox and take note of which of the zodiacal constellations the sun raises in you will know the astrological age you are in and this is caused by something called the procession of the equinoxes

www.crystalinks.com...

The bible covers events from the start of age of Taurus (about 4525 BC to ca. 1875 BC) to the age of Pisces 100/90 BC (so 3 different astrological ages)

an example found in the bible is Moses coming down the mountain with the 10 commandments, he finds the Jews dancing around a golden bull

like
quicksilver899.com...
or
arthuride.files.wordpress.com...

Moses then gets all upset and tells them to stop it –Moses is usually depicted with horns
www.truthcontrol.com...

Probably to signify (to the illuminated) he is the avatar of the (then) new age of Aries

Another example of the imagery involved with the end of the age of Taurus is Mithras slaying a bull
novelreaction.com...

The next age is Aries which is associated with imagery based on sheep/goat/shepherd type images such as
www.wetcanvas.com...
(the good shepherd Apollo)

Or this guy
philosophicaladventures.com...

About 2000 years ago the age of Pisces began – the age of Pisces, so fish/ fisherman symbolism
www.sacred-destinations.com...
(from a cathedral window)

And as you might now expect another god-man avatar for the new age such as this guy
lh4.ggpht.com...

so
30.media.tumblr.com...
or
www.isisoasis.org...
note the horns (probably signifying age of Taurus) and sun disk

Originally posted by Grimpachi
This is just my personal beleife that Jesus was a practacing budhist trying to change the world into a better place. People can argue all day on wether or not he was real or not but regardless I believe he wanted to change thingd for the better. let us discard the rituals and aspire to be better people like I am sure is what he wanted. Why is that so hard to accept. Aside fro the churches fear of loseing power.

This was something I posted on my FB wall which I feel is relevant to your statmente. It was under the context of using a vow of silence as a means to access the higher potential of constant enlightenment that can be seen briefly by using psychedelic substances.

...

I tend toward the notion that this is the conundrum that comes with using psychedelics...more often than not they stream insights at a rate faster than can be retained in the cognitive centres. Overall it has a liberating effect on the subconscious/intuitive centres all the whilst high, but there are no lasting results yielded.

This then tends to inculcate a belief in people that it is incomprehensible....however that belief is an illusion.
Often people will rely on that belief to kid themselves that there is no reason to aspire to enlightenment via purist means. The Buddha is the example that they refer to, and think they have to give up everything they are familiar with and comforted by, so as to attain permanent enlightenment.
This however is yet another illusion, because they are referring to a threshold of potential which resides in the past.

The Buddha lived in a time when the technological advancement was futile in yielding analogous examples to help others understand what he as the apex of consciousness at that time had comprehended. So he didn't bother with trying and just set a compassionate example of living of which was resonant with those insights; knowing that that way of living was also the way for others to attain those insights as a constant.

I feel that Christ was similar to Buddah however he had the capacity to psychicly embed those insights into the collective heart-consciousness as seeds. Whereas Buddah accessed the seeds from a higher domain out of sync with the threshold of the collective psyche.

We are now living in an era where technology enables the fathomment of the non-linear principles of Akashic space that all the ancient sages understood. They could see it in math via their own higher perceptive comprehension of the non-linear, but they couldn't convey it articulately to the masses due to limited technological examples to serve as analogy.

This means that the same levels of insightful understanding can be learned second hand, without having to become a sage in seclusion who meditates day in day out for 40 odd years before being able integrate it.

Even if Jesus isnt exactly similar to other Savior Gods it is very clear that the Religion of Christianity is taken straight from The Egyptian Religion and other Mythology: Crucifixion, Afterlife, Final Judgement, Law Givers/10 Commandments, Flood Myths, Resurrection even the Christian day of worship is taken from other Mythology etc, etc...

God has one plan. Don't believe the falsehoods. One Church fits with:

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one Baptism.

Roman Catholicism is the true faith. Change now, look to the true faith,
to Jesus' presence in the Holy Eucharist.

+ + +

message to Maria/Divine Mercy

There is only one truth. One light. Anything else is a lie.

Sunday, January 1st, 2012 @ 05:30 pm

My dearly beloved daughter know that no matter how difficult this mission is I will not fail to direct you.

My voice encourages you at all times. My spirit moves your heart so that you are powerless against it. My love is so enveloping that you are unable to turn your back on Me or deny Me. Yet you find that you stumble along the way.

When you try to analyze My word you will find you are unable to do this successfully. No amount of analysis can change the truth of what I say.

No one, including you My daughter, has the authority to twist the meaning of My Holy Word so that it becomes more acceptable in your eyes.

This applies to My word contained in the Holy Bible and My word contained within these messages.

Trust in Me more My daughter. Ask My children and all of My beloved followers to trust in Me completely.

I will never let humanity down. I will never turn My back on the pleas of My cherished children. I will always respond to poor souls who plead for My Mercy.

What I will never do My daughter is to speak to My children in order to suit their needs and to give them what they want to hear.

The truth must be told. My holy word must never be diluted or the truth tampered with.

My holy word must never be changed, adjusted or twisted so that it becomes a lie.

Know that the time for My justice is close. Understand that My mercy is great but the wickedness I see in your world disgusts Me.

This wickedness is even justified by those who profess My word and who claim to know Me.

They have twisted my teachings for centuries to suit their avarice, lust, pride and greed.

How it breaks My heart to see acts of depravity paraded before Me and witness how My children are fooled into believing that these acts are acceptable in My eyes.
Wake up to the truth. My great mercy is available to every single soul during The Warning.

But beware. Those Christians who believe that the twisted truth of My teachings will be acceptable in My eyes will be shocked during the warning. They will resist the truth when I reveal how their sins greatly offend Me.

I urge these people to accept that I am the truth and the light. There is only one truth. One light. Anything else is a lie.

Examine your conscience children honestly before The Warning takes place. Learn to identify the truth before you come before Me. For then and only then will your suffering be less.

Your Teacher and Redeemer

Saviour of all Mankind

Jesus Christ


www.thewarningsecondcoming.com...

Thank you for a great link colbe.. That forum had some very prophetic messages about the times we are in and what to expect..

The call for pray and to open out hearts to the Holy Trinity is very important..

The following is taken from this link

www.thewarningsecondcoming.com...

God the Father: The Anti-Christ and a new world currency Friday, September 23rd, 2011 @ 09:30 pm

My daughter while the world may fear The Warning they must accept that the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelation are upon us.

The Holy state of the Church is now at risk as is the state of Israel.

Prophecies will unfold as the world will be controlled by the Anti-Christ who will attempt to control you through a new world currency. When and if you are controlled in this way you will be controlled in every other way.

The Warning will put a halt to this and other evil atrocities being planned by global forces which are beyond the understanding of My children the world over. Innocent pawns in a game, not of your making, you will be protected by My hand of justice.

Rise, My children and fight this sequence of evil through prayer. The global control and persecution being plotted right at this moment can be averted through prayer. Not all of you can or will be saved such is the grip the Anti-Christ will hold over you.

My children Satan will never win. He has not been accorded the power and as his grip begins to loosen now he will drag as many souls as he can into the pits of hell with him.

I weep with deep sorrow for My beautiful creation and those precious souls of Mine. Oh if they would only listen to the truth.

Scientific evaluation is a nonsense for no science will substitute the reality of My Divine Kingdom. No one person on earth can ever fathom the beauty and the miracle that awaits you all for it is indescribable in human terms.

Soon you will understand the plans I have to salvage the world from the hands of the Deceiver.

I love all of you and will protect My followers at every stage during any planned persecution. Look towards Me. Open your arms and allow Me to hold and protect all of you. My children who believe in Me have nothing to fear.

Your beloved Creator
God the Most High
God the Father

edit: oops..pressed wrong member for reply..was supposed to be colbe..my apologies.

Originally posted by LunaKat
Colbe, The first Christians are DEAD. All of the players in the Bible are DEAD. While they were alive they were no better than the rest of us. The Bible did not fall down from the sky completely written. The Bible is myth told by people no better (and in many ways a lot worse) than people today.

You put all your faith in a bunch of words that were received by what your church would call imperfect human beings. Words Colbe... just words. That thing that causes wars. And they are words that make hearts cold because they come not from love, not from a loving God, but from a very divisive one.

Faith is of the heart. It needs no words. It only listens for and responds to love.

edit on 27-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)

Though they may have been imperfect.. they were wise enough to acknowledge Christ and accept His grace of salvation.

They are words inspired by the Holy Spirit..and I will take St Augustines studies of the time periods and his words..over the humans that twist the truth of Gods words anyday.

Faith and the belief in Jesus.. and the prayers of the devout have stopped much bloodshed.. to blame wars on religion alone is ridiculous and seriously blinding your self to the reality of mans greed and lust for domination behind war.

Are you going to tell me that the millions of Catholics praying the rosary everyday for the salvation of souls.. are the cause of wars? You have no idea of the humility and humbleness of many souls who pray for all of us...and still continue to do so after they have left their earthly bodies.

At no point in history has Jesus asked for people to kill in His name.. He has only asked for prayers to avert war.

Someday you will realize the error of your thinking lunakat.. and realize the depths of His mercy.

May the love of the Holy Spirit open your heart and your mind to the reality of Jesus..and His plan for our salvation.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by arpgme

 

Replying about knowing when Our Lord was born. Of course the first
Christians would know the Savior's birth. I ask, what mother forgets the
date of her child's birth? Mary knew the Apostles, the Gospel writers,
she would share the date with them.

And from the Church Fathers, the first Christians...thanks Taylor Marshall. _ _ _


The Church Fathers Testify to December 25

In the previous post, we showed that Christmas could not have been a Christian attempt to replace a pagan holiday with a newly minted Christian holiday. Further testimony reveals that Catholics claimed December 25 as the Birthday of Christ prior to the conversion of Constantine and the Roman Empire.

For example, Saint Hippolytus writes in passing that the birth of Christ occurred on a Wednesday on December 25. Saint Hippolytus wrote this sometime between A.D. 200 and 211! Here's the quote:

"The First Advent of our Lord in the flesh occurred when He was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, a Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, which is five thousand and five hundred years from Adam. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls."

- Saint Hippolytus of Rome, Commentary on Daniel

Also note in the quote above the special significance of March 25, which marks the death of Christ (March 25 was seen to correspond to the Hebrew month Nisan 14 - the traditional date of crucifixion).**

Christ, as the perfect man, was believed to have been conceived and died on the same day (March 25). In his Chronicon, Saint Hippolytus states that the earth was created on March 25, 5500 B.C. Thus, March 25 was identified by the Church Fathers as:

the Creation date of the World
the date of the Annunciation and Incarnation of Christ
the date of the Death of Christ our Savior

In the Syrian Church March 25 or the Feast of the Annunciation was seen as one of the most important feasts of the entire year. It denoted the day that God took up his abode in the womb of the Virgin. In fact, if the Annunciation and Good Friday came into conflict on the calendar, the Annunciation trumped it - so important was the day in the Syrian tradition! It goes without saying that the Syrian Church preserved some of the most ancient Christian traditions and had a sweet and profound devotion for Mary and the Incarnation of Christ.

Now then, March 25 was enshrined in the early Christian tradition and from this date it is easy to discern the date of Christ's birth. March 25 (Christ conceived by the Holy Ghost) plus nine months brings us to December 25 (the birth of Christ at Bethlehem).

Saint Augustine confirms this tradition of March 25 as the Messianic conception and December 25 as His birth:

“For Christ is believed to have been conceived on the 25th of March, upon which day also he suffered; so the womb of the Virgin, in which he was conceived, where no one of mortals was begotten, corresponds to the new grave in which he was buried, wherein was never man laid, neither before him nor since. But he was born, according to tradition, upon December the 25th.”

- Saint Augustine, De trinitate, Book 4, 5.

Perfect example above. Yes, Mary would know and she would share it.

Ridiculous, to claim the Truth of Christ came from Paganism.
No way. As if the first Christians didn't know when and how Jesus was born, the same for the time of and details on his suffering death for all of humanity. Goes with the pride of every generation thinking they are the smartest.



\

Wow.. what an awesome find... and it explains things so well. How interesting that Jesus was conceived as well as died on the same date.

It shows the forethought and omnipotence of the Fathers plan.

If Jesus returns, how will civilization continue in its current manner?

the current day to day way of things, the current system which supports all living people in their corners of the world, how would peoples day to day lives be able to continue smoothly, with such a large shock to the many unholy areas and proponents of the current system?

if all people on this planet were to see the light, the truth, their potential goodness and begin creating a system that better brought out their most positive potentials, in cooperation, not competition,

how long will it be until humans live until they are 150 each, are all well fed living in harmony, and multiplying,

how can earth, or can it or should it, sustain an exponential growth in humans; exponential growth in the resources these humans would need to consume?

Im sure we can create technologies, like we have always done when needing to solve a problem,
a machine that can grow all your food in your home, but may the creation of more and more technologies be dodging fundamental problems completely, only resulting in more problems at a further date?

if a problem occurs on a planet and no one notices, does the problem exist?