The bible exposes Paul as a false apostle.

First, consider Paul's own words in his letter to the Ephesians...

Paul, an apostle of Yahshua by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus
- Ephesians 1:1

Got that down?
Great..... now, as you may know, Ephesus was one of the seven churches located in Asia, according to the book of Revelations... ( Revelation 1:10,11)


Now, this is what was said to the church of Ephesus....
"I know your works, your labor, and your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars." - Revlations 2:2


Got that down ....?
Now, heres what Paul wrote about his reception in Asia...
This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me.
-2Timothy 1:15


In case you missed it, Paul writes that he was rejected by everybody in Asia....where Ephesus was located!

Whats the big deal about all this, you ask? Heres the whole thing in a nutshell-
a) Paul tried to witness to Ephesus, located in biblical Asia.
b) All of Asia rejected Paul.
c) Ephesus is getting praised in revelations, for having "tested those who say they are apostles and have found them liars."

So where does it leave Paul???


Think!
Paul writes that he was rejected by all of Asia, where Ephesus was located!
Ephesus is being praised for testing 'those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars'.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
First, consider Paul's own words in his letter to the Ephesians...

Paul, an apostle of Yahshua by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus
- Ephesians 1:1

Got that down?
Great..... now, as you may know, Ephesus was one of the seven churches located in Asia, according to the book of Revelations... ( Revelation 1:10,11)


Now, this is what was said to the church of Ephesus....
"I know your works, your labor, and your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars." - Revlations 2:2


Got that down ....?
Now, heres what Paul wrote about his reception in Asia...
This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me.
-2Timothy 1:15


In case you missed it, Paul writes that he was rejected by everybody in Asia....where Ephesus was located!

Whats the big deal about all this, you ask? Heres the whole thing in a nutshell-
a) Paul tried to witness to Ephesus, located in biblical Asia.
b) All of Asia rejected Paul.
c) Ephesus is getting praised in revelations, for having "tested those who say they are apostles and have found them liars."

So where does it leave Paul???


Think!
Paul writes that he was rejected by all of Asia, where Ephesus was located!
Ephesus is being praised for testing 'those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars'.

edit on 1-12-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Um, you DO know that 2 Timothy is a forgery right? Every biblical scholar worth his salt knows that.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
First, consider Paul's own words in his letter to the Ephesians...

Paul, an apostle of Yahshua by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus
- Ephesians 1:1

Got that down?
Great..... now, as you may know, Ephesus was one of the seven churches located in Asia, according to the book of Revelations... ( Revelation 1:10,11)


Now, this is what was said to the church of Ephesus....
"I know your works, your labor, and your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars." - Revlations 2:2


Got that down ....?
Now, heres what Paul wrote about his reception in Asia...
This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me.
-2Timothy 1:15


In case you missed it, Paul writes that he was rejected by everybody in Asia....where Ephesus was located!

Whats the big deal about all this, you ask? Heres the whole thing in a nutshell-
a) Paul tried to witness to Ephesus, located in biblical Asia.
b) All of Asia rejected Paul.
c) Ephesus is getting praised in revelations, for having "tested those who say they are apostles and have found them liars."

So where does it leave Paul???


Think!
Paul writes that he was rejected by all of Asia, where Ephesus was located!
Ephesus is being praised for testing 'those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars'.

edit on 1-12-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Just wondering, why would the bible talk about an American running for president in 2011? I am not religous but surely they had better things to write about then an aging guy half way across the world generations after...

Then why did Peter accept him?

reply to post by 547000


How that is supposed to explain why Ephesus,located in biblical Asia.... was commended in revelations, despite having rejected Paul?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Um, you DO know that 2 Timothy is a forgery right? Every biblical scholar worth his salt knows that.

I am no biblical scholar.... but I do know whats biblical canon and whats not.
And 2 Timothy is right there in print in my copy of the bible. Its not like I am basing the OP on apocrypha, am I?

So, if 2 Timothy is a forgery, then just why is it even in the bible? And what other books in the bible do you think are forgieries?

There is a flaw in the OP's argument, maybe two flaws. First, he employs one of the oldest tricks in the book, presenting a part of the picture as the total picture. Second, and subsequent to the first point, if we look at ALL seven letters in the Revelation, we do see specific movements and individuals by name. The OP needs to make a guess as to why Paul was not named. As it is, his connection between Paul and unnamed apostles is pure speculation, food for thought, as they say, but still speculation.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

First, he employs one of the oldest tricks in the book, presenting a part of the picture as the total picture.

Well, I'm just quoting whats there in the bible.

Now, please enlighten me. What is the "total picture" with regard to Pauls situation with Ephesus... and (biblical) Asia?

Why was Paul rejected by all of Asia? And why was Ephesus (in Asia) being praised in revelations.... for rejecting false Apostles.

Go on... Im waiting.

reply to post by OwenGP185


Lol, he's talking about Saul of Tarsus (A.K.A. Apostle Paul) not Ron Paul.

I did get a laugh out of that, star for you.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by 547000

 

How that is supposed to explain why Ephesus,located in biblical Asia.... was commended in revelations, despite having rejected Paul?

edit on 1-12-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Ephesus didn't reject Paul, second timothy is a forgery. The style and wording are not Paul's, that book was written so sow confusion by the apostates who were pissed off at Paul because he refused to allow the apostate element to infiltrate the church (apostates later became the Holy Roman Catholic Empire).

Do you honestly think the Holy Spirit whom was giving Paul is marching orders would give Paul his power if he was an apostate? No he wouldn't. Paul performed miracles like any of the other Apostles. The battle for the church began in Paul's stewardship of the church and it actually gained a foothold in the Apostle John's time, despite John's staunchest efforts to weed out the apostates he was the last surviving oringinal Apostle of Christ and they turned John out and they are probably the ones that turned him over to the Romans to be banished on Patmos Island becaus ehe kept meddling in their quest for power and recognition.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Um, you DO know that 2 Timothy is a forgery right? Every biblical scholar worth his salt knows that.

I am no biblical scholar.... but I do know whats biblical canon and whats not.
And 2 Timothy is right there in print in my copy of the bible. Its not like I am basing the OP on apocrypha, am I?

So, if 2 Timothy is a forgery, then just why is it even in the bible? And what other books in the bible do you think are forgieries?

edit on 1-12-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

2 Timothy and 2 Corithinians i believe is the other forgery if i remember correctly and i know where youre taking this. I am not going to deny the deity of Christ. There are many books in the old testament that back up his being God in person. The jews killed many of the prophets who prophesied the messiah. The jewish sect of the Essenes prophesied the messiah 250 years before he was born according to gnostic texts.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Paul, an apostle of Yahshua . . .

Why are you misquoting that verse from Ephesians?
The name is Jesus.
Why would you put that other name in there when it is not in the text?

So where does it leave Paul???

Out of the discussion, since Paul did not write Ephesians, 1 Timothy, or Revelation.
Paul wrote Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, and Galatians which he bundled to be published as a unit, to be read by the general church, meaning at the time, the several churches scattered about Asia Minor and into Macedonia, and by the title of the first book, into Rome itself.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


just for clairification...

Are you not one of the people that claim the entire bible is Gods word.... yet now your claiming there are forgeries?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Oh lol, well after seeing some of the threads I have seen lately I figured it was another Ron Paul being an antichrist type thread ha.

reply to post by OwenGP185


Ron Paul isn't the anti-christ. People who say that are ignorant of the word. You won't know who he is until he chooses to reveal himself and that won't take place until after the temple gets rebuilt 3.5 years into the tribulation. He will come from out of Zion and probably be a jew as Satan mocks everything about Christ. If i had to take a guess at who he might be i'd say Netanyahu...but who knows? No point worrying about it. Just go on living life like you do everyday.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Ephesus didn't reject Paul, second timothy is a forgery. The style and wording are not Paul's, that book was written so sow confusion by the apostates who were pissed off at Paul because he refused to allow the apostate element to infiltrate the church (apostates later became the Holy Roman Catholic Empire).

Honestly, its the first time Im ever hearing from a chrstian that 2 Timothy is a forgery.

And you seem to be somewhat right, according to wikipedia...

Six additional letters bearing Paul's name do not currently enjoy the same academic consensus: Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, and Titus.

And other searches have shown that Timothy is a debated issue.


Wow.
And the funny part is that I have seen christians quote from the books mentioned above. (Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, and Titus). They seem to be blisfully unaware that the authenticity of these books are on shaky ground.
Thanks for the heads up... I'll try and remember this, the next time someone quotes from them to make a point.

So is there ANY kind of consensus among christians as to what books in biblical canon can be classified as "authentic" and not? From my experience, most christians go about interpreting every printed word in the bible as authentic.

reply to post by Akragon

just for clairification...
Are you not one of the people that claim the entire bible is Gods word.... yet now your claiming there are forgeries?

I know! That caught me off-gaurd as well. Even I thought he was one of those who says "if its in the bible, its got to be true".

And he is somewhat correct, in the sense that 2 timothys authenticity is being disputed!!!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

2 Timothy and 2 Corithinians i believe is the other forgery if i remember correctly and i know where youre taking this. I am not going to deny the deity of Christ. There are many books in the old testament that back up his being God in person.

Im not taking this anywhere.
This was about Pauls authenticity as an apostle, but now it seems to be about the authenticity of books within the bible itself.

That said, how are you supposed to know what other books are forgeries? What about the ones in the old testament? And within the Gospels? A forgery can be as subtle as one or two crucial passages added into an otherwise genuine text.

Its clear that the wrong hands and minds have had a part in producing the final biblical canon.... so a lot of christian doctrine is on shaky ground... even the books that "back up" what you think is true.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Why are you misquoting that verse from Ephesians?
The name is Jesus. Why would you put that other name in there when it is not in the text?

Yashua is not a different person from Jesus... so it does not change the subject of the OP.
I had this quote saved on my computer for sometime now, I dont recall where I copy pasted this from... but I had used this earlier on a different forum.

\Out of the discussion, since Paul did not write Ephesians, 1 Timothy, or Revelation.

Of course Paul did not write revelations. And yeah, Ive just learned that the authenticity of a lot of books by Paul are being disputed.
The idea of forgeries within the bible is BIG, and Im surprised that more christians are not aware of this. They happily quote from Ephesians, 1 timothy and all the other "disputed" books.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

2 Timothy and 2 Corithinians i believe is the other forgery if i remember correctly and i know where youre taking this. I am not going to deny the deity of Christ. There are many books in the old testament that back up his being God in person.

Im not taking this anywhere.
This was about Pauls authenticity as an apostle, but now it seems to be about the authenticity of books within the bible itself.

That said, how are you supposed to know what other books are forgeries? What about the ones in the old testament? And within the Gospels? A forgery can be as subtle as one or two crucial passages added into an otherwise genuine text.

Its clear that the wrong hands and minds have had a part in producing the final biblical canon.... so a lot of christian doctrine is on shaky ground... even the books that "back up" what you think is true.

You can tell. It's hard to explain it, but the Holy Spirit reveals the truth because thats what he is, the truth. You have to have faith and trust in God, he will make the truth known to you if you ask him. For me i think about Jesus and his teachings, the things he said and what he did, his actions and his miracles, his crucufixtion and resurrection and ascension. We just know. Maybe you should try asking and praying to him. There must be something to it if we would die for him, do you think we would throw away our lives for a lie? Think about how many early christians during the first century died for him without hesitation.

Do you know how the Romans flushed us out when they caught christians? They tested us by trying to force us to pray to their god's and to reject Christ, we we couldn't and they had us thrown to their lions, or burned at stakes for sport or thrown to the gladiators in the coliseum to dismember and they never once fought back, they turned the other cheek as Jesus said until they died for it. When were martyred we don't fight back or try to protect ourselves, ask yourself what power could possibly allow us to so easily accept death? The love we feel for our Lord and God, the reverence.