Location of Holy Grail

The point I heard regarding Mary Magdalene and the prostitute accusation was that the verse about the prostitute is not referring to her at all, but was arbitrarily attached to her. If she was a prostitute though, so what? It is a socially taboo occupation, but in my view, there are many acceptable jobs that are far less ethical. For example, weapon design, or really, anything in the military sector. What is worse, sex for money, or killing people who oppose you?

Originally posted by Ezekial
Well, another well worn story brought back to life, sorry for those who have read this stuff ad infanitum.
Here's my take on it:

I don't mind so much that you were taken with the book.. I do mind that you tried to take the books outline and present it as your own theory.

Other than that.. I have to say that while there may be some truth in the ideas behind the novel.. it is in fact a work of fiction and was created for entertainment purposes.. this does not mean that there could be SOME fact buried in there somewhere.. indeed it would be difficult to write the story without some of it at least having hit some truth but you must understand that if the story had been 100% on the mark it would have never made it to print and the author most likely would have suffered an unfortunate and unexplainable freak accident before he could spread his ideas any farther.. the fact that Mr.Brown is alive and kicking is proof that the book is not based a large % of reality. What is true and what is fantasy is up for you to figure out through research if you can.. but as I have said before.. I would not rely heavily on the internet if you want REAL answers... anyone can put up a website and make claims... it does not make them real. Never stop questioning.. but also never settle for easy answers.

Quote: "the author most likely would have suffered an unfortunate and unexplainable freak accident before he could spread his ideas any farther.. the fact that Mr.Brown is alive and kicking is proof".

Only except Mr. Dan Brown has indeed already recieved *PLENTY* of *DEATH THREATS* - of-course!

quote: Originally posted by Ezekial
Well, another well worn story brought back to life, sorry for those who have read this stuff ad infanitum.
Here's my take on it:
insert outline of the da vinci code here>

I don't mind so much that you were taken with the book.. I do mind that you tried to take the books outline and present it as your own theory.

Other than that.. I have to say that while there may be some truth in the ideas behind the novel.. it is in fact a work of fiction and was created for entertainment purposes.. this does not mean that there could be SOME fact buried in there somewhere.. indeed it would be difficult to write the story without some of it at least having hit some truth but you must understand that if the story had been 100% on the mark it would have never made it to print and the author most likely would have suffered an unfortunate and unexplainable freak accident before he could spread his ideas any farther.. the fact that Mr.Brown is alive and kicking is proof that the book is not based a large % of reality. What is true and what is fantasy is up for you to figure out through research if you can.. but as I have said before.. I would not rely heavily on the internet if you want REAL answers... anyone can put up a website and make claims... it does not make them real. Never stop questioning.. but also never settle for easy answers.

This post hit the nail RIGHT ON THE HEAD! There's plenty of "science" in most sci-fi novels and films...BUT...they call it Science Fiction for a reason! Dan Brown did the same thing as Issac Asimov and Robert A. Heinlein, mainly, taking a lot of disconnected facts and claims from previous books, and spun a great yarn about them.

IT'S CALLED ENTERTAINMENT!

Lest we forget, this whole Grail "thing" started with a single Cisternian Monk who had a vision...a vision I believe, of a CUP. Does this mean there's nothing to the Jesus-Mary Theory? Well, no, it just becomes a separate theory!

San greil
Sang reil

Man, the problems some typos cause!!



[edit on 2-3-2006 by Toelint]

What a great story and if truth be known the Catholics didn't even make up the story, they stold it from the Celts! Ahhhh, Ireland stricks again.
Anyway, I think I remember where I put the "Holy" Grail last time I used it. I believe it is on the top shelf of the east end of the garage. It is safe but no longer has any dried blood in it. That stuff turned to powder after about 200 years and jest blowed away in a slight draft.
skep

Originally posted by skep
What a great story and if truth be known the Catholics didn't even make up the story, they stold it from the Celts! Ahhhh, Ireland stricks again.
Anyway, I think I remember where I put the "Holy" Grail last time I used it. I believe it is on the top shelf of the east end of the garage. It is safe but no longer has any dried blood in it. That stuff turned to powder after about 200 years and jest blowed away in a slight draft.
skep

Oyh, yeou Irish crack meh yep!

Okay, here's the deal. There's no less than three candidates for the Title of Holy Grail. One's in Genoa, one's in Velencia, and one's in Herefordshire, Engalnd. Oh, let's not forget the one in Skep's garage...that makes four.

For those who subscribe to the "Grail as a Cup" theory, it seems that the Cup of Valencia (which is made from a red porphory stone) is the strongest candidate. According to "friends" it is the one that is the Vatican's favorite.

However I've been hard-pressed to find any priest/friar that will go on the record stating this, but I've heard enough in private conversation.

But of course, it could always just be one of those pesky "grail shaped beacons" Like Sir Galahad found at the Castle Anthrax (before being rescued from certain temptation by Lancelot :lol

I like your take, Toelint. Actually, from what I've heard to-day Tony Blair DOES think he's descended from God; along with George Bush. Perhaps THAT is the secret of the grail!!

LOL Spooknost, which politician doesn't think he's God's gift to humanity?!

No wonder I don't like politicians. They start out either as lawyers...or business bankers!

The Cup of Christ.

Not very likely is it.

A wooden cup that contained/contains the blood of Jesus.

The most popular tail is the grail was the cup JC drank from during the last supper and used by Joseph of Arimathea to collect his blood.

It's a story, a fabrication. Why did Joseph choose the last cup he drank from, how did he get hold of that cup, why did he collect blood in that cup and why did that cup then provide eternal life when by all accounts Jesus shed quite a bit of Haemoglobin on his journey to the cross?

This is one of those Christian stories you can dismiss on the grounds of common sense but if isn't true then where does the original story come from?

Here we get into Holy Blood/Holy Grail - Da Vinvi Code Territory. The Cup as a Vessel, the blood of Christ not actual blood but his children who where spirited away by Arimathea to England along with their mother, Mary Magdelene. These children wheer the begining of the royal bloodline of Europe and their relations continue to have a powerful influence to this day.

Now this seems more likely then a cup that provides eternal life but their is little proof any of that happened.

This story begins with the death of Jesus so we need to look at the event surrounding his death.

According to the bible Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus took care and made the arrangements of Christs body after death. Arimathea and Nicodemus where Sanhedrin , members of the Jewish council who had brought Jesus to Pilate and condemed him to death

It's in places like this the Bible gets shakey and falls apart. Now the bible assumes that Arimathea and Nicodemus where merely sympathetic followers who offered to take care of the body of Jesus as a gesture of goodwill.

This is possible of course but is it likely?

Mary and Joseph where simple peasents scraping out a living in the backwater village of Nazereth and yet Joseph was supposed to be descended from King David so you would assume he had a little bit of power and influence.

In order for Jesus to fufill one of the Messianic Prophecies he had to lie in a rich mans tomb ( the tomb of Arimathea) and so you would think that being a member of the Sanhedrin Joseph would know all about Messanic prophecy and he offered to inter Jesus body so he would be the one to fufill the prophecy.

You see this is the real S*** and giggles part. If you have a prophecy, a written list of requirements that a person must fufill then it is possible ( with the enough power and influence) to manufacture situations and tick the boxes off one by one.

I'm not going to go into here but think about it. Two members a powerful Jewish council conspiring with a peasent child from Nazereth who claims he's the King of the Jews?

Doesn't seem likely to me but if you turn it upside down it becomes a little clearer.

If you make the large assumption that Christians over time have turned Mary Joseph into humble peasents in order to appeal to the humble peasents that they wanted to control and indoctrinate into their faith and that in reality Jesus parents had much more power and influence then the bible portrays the mist clears a little.

You see in order for the story to appeal to the plebs Jesus had to come from the same social band as them. he had to be poor becuase if he came from a family of wealth and power how can the miserable peasents classes hope to identify with him?

I fear the real story of Jesus is concerned with power struggles, betrayal, backstabbing , dirty tricks and political spin between people of wealth and power but in order to make the people swallow and believe it Jesus became a Pauper.

It's the Dan Brown trick...if you intwine truth and fiction together they merge into one and the bible is a a spider web of just that, which is why it is so difficult to completely dispute.

Okay, Hammer, if I'm understanding you, you're saying that Christianity was founded by the wealthy who understood that by duping the public into joining this new "club", they would easily conjoin with each other to do the bidding of the wealthy..and pay a tithing to boot! That's a very interesting theory! I do have a couple of problems with it though.

First, if it's that simple to keep the masses in order, then why are communist countries typically officially atheist?

Second, if the mass appeal of Christianity is that Christ was poor and tolerant,.why would he profess to come "not to distroy the Word of God, but to enhance it"? The Jews were a rather unforgiving people.

After saying that he comes not to distroy the Word, but to enhance it, Jesus says "Hey, you can't divorce. And no, you can't even think about sleeping with another woman. That's Adultery in your heart!" There are many examples of Jesus telling the Sadducees, "God made your law this simple because the original israelites were hard-hearted and ignorant. Had God imposed the laws He really wanted, the israelites would have fried in the first week!" Hmm, at the onset, this doesn't sound like a church I'd want to join.

Christ, contrary to popular belief, was NOT tolerant! Where he differs from Jewish doctrine is in the concept of Grace...the forgiving of sin.

Frankly, the Jews were very good at controlling society at large by convincing them that God could and would blast them out of existance where they stood for breaking the law. Jesus says that God can do that and more, for a lot less than the Jewish leaders let on! Okay, there's that "Grace thing", but is that really enough to convert an "on again-off again" Jew to a religion founded on the beliefs of an Uber-Jew? Sorry, I don't see it.


I can still see where you're right about power plays and back-stabbing, but only in the context of individual churches, not in Christianity in general.

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Toelint]

It's what we are all taught in the childs prayer toelint "Gentle Jesus meek and mild...."

Of course he wasn't, he rebelled against authority, turned over the money lenders tables and spread the good news that the Jewish council didn't really want to here.

Jesus was rebelling against the powers that be, those in control and according to the bible it cost him his life so he's more Che Guerva than Buddah really.

The bible was conceived under a time of Roman occupation and much of the Jewish hierachy cooperated with romans and therefore people became disillusioned with the heirachy and wanted change.

Would would bring change to the Jewish people...why the messiah of prophecy of course so if you want people to get behind a revolution why not play on their exisiting beliefs and deliver the Messiah as a figure head around which everyone can gather...a symbol if you like.

This revolt failed ( or did it?) and the figure head ( jesus) was killed...life returned to normal.

But then something funny happened. Jesus became a martyr , a dead , spirtual figurehead that people could gather around.

Stories about him spread, the spin machine started and instead of a normal man he became a god, a miracle, worker a magician..something more than just a simple man.

One perspective on this could be that the powers that be encouraged the spread of Christainity when they realised they could use it as a tool of social control. Jesus was dead and word had spread that God had sacrificed his son because people were wicked, revolting against the hierachies and disobeying the state.

The image of Jesus as a revolutionary was changed from being a physical revolutionary to a spirtual one. This man who acheived such amazing feats was a God, a supernatural therfore no human being is capable of doing what he did and no human being should try.

Jesus was the template for human perfection, what we all should aspire to be but Jesus was not human so we can aspire to that goal but never actually acheive it.

You see if you think about it, Jesus acheived very little all he did was inspire the creation of Christianity as we know it.

He is the poster boy for that faith, the symbol for a belief system and way of life but Christianity doesn't teach us to rebel against authority and corruption it teaches us to be good , keep our heads down and mouth shut.

Remove Jesus from the religion he inspired and he becomes a figure worth looking up to...he was a rebel...a James Dean or Bob Dylan and great people inspire great mythology.

haha...all a bit muddled I know, but my points in there somewhere.

What always raises my eyebrows is the alleged link between Jesus and the Merovingians. Ok, how the hell did his alleged descendants end up leading the barbarian Frankish tribe? Go for a wander into Germany did they and then rise to the top in time for the fall of the Empire?

I read through the entire thread, 'hoping' that someone would bring up the topic of a 'gospel' that the catholic church excluded from being part of the bible....... and that being 'The Talmud of Jmmanuel'........ I wanted to know of anyone's opinion of it if read....

Quite interesting fact about the Talmud of Jmmanuel....is that Jmmanuel (being the supposed name of Jesus) Describing Angels as being 'Space Brothers' and descriptions of UFO's..... If I recall it explained his relationship with Mary Magdelane and his actual children.... one which I believed was named Sarah?

Apparently Mary and 2 children went to France.... and Jesus with his eldest son went to India......... apparently there's a grave in India near Kashmir surrounded with information supporting the final resting place of Jmmanuel.

Also I've read that the creation of Jmmanuel (by beings of Sirius A and Alderbaren) was to steer humanity away from the controllers of the time, opposing that of the then elite.... to start a generation of people that were to follow Sirian A and Alderbaren philosophies..... it didn't eventuate that way...

Very interesting read non the less..

Kind Regards
Merger

Okay Merger, I'm starting a thread entitled Was The Virgin Mary a UFO Abductee? That should get some hairs standing on end!

Quote: "Jmmanuel (being the supposed name of Jesus)"

Not Jmmanuel -> Emmanuel. It is not his actual name - it was a term\title used by Messianic Jews for the "Messiah\Saviour to Come". I guess the term can be applied to Jesus/Yehshuah if you believe that he was the Messiah - it has been used that way.

Seraphim, I went looking for this Book of Jmmanuel, and the best I found was this website.

www.alienshift.com...

Can you make some more suggestions?

you know i was thinking about this.At the end of the indiana jones movie, when jones drinks from the holy grail doesnt he become immortal?

Hey Toelint - I checked out that link. Here is a Segment from that website that you linked to that caught my eye:


"These writers have been baffled by the striking resemblance that exists between Christian and Buddhistic teachings and between the life events of both Jesus and Buddha as revealed in their respective Scriptures.

Some of these writers hold the view that Buddhistic teachings must somehow have reached Palestine and been assimilated by Jesus in his own sermons (or that Jesus had traveled to the East & studied Buddhism)."


Yes - I have to agree that there are many parallel ideas/concepts/teachings/theologies in Christianity & Buddhism - seeing that I have studied & practiced both extensively.

Although I also believe - unfortunately - that a LOT of Jesus' Original teachings were Altered or even eliminated later in history by the Church. For Instance I believe that Jesus himself taught about Karma & Re-Incarnation to his Disciples & Followers. Also in Buddhism there is something known as "Buddha-Nature" ("Buddha" means "Awakened One" - Master of Wisdom & Compassion) - that we ALL have this Buddha-Nature - that we are ALL a part of this Universal Consciousness or Universal Mind. All we have to do is to simply Manifest it into this Worldly Material Plain. All we need to do is try to eliminate our various Vexations & walk the Path of Righteousness. This is also what Jesus Taught. Jesus also followed this (Bodhisattvas) Path of Righteousness, Wisdom & Compassion. The Title of Bodhisattva can also be applied to Jesus. This relates to the "Buddha-Nature" teaching via the often ignored (Simply because of its Gnostic Associations) teaching of Jesus -> "The Kingdom of Heaven/God is WITHIN you"! Christ stated that HE was ONE with the Father & through the Holy Communion of the Mass WE are one with Christ - hence also one with the Father. That is why we are called "Christians" - because we aspire to be Christ like - God like even - although we OFTEN fall short of the Mark.

Originally posted by ATSGUY
you know i was thinking about this.At the end of the indiana jones movie, when jones drinks from the holy grail doesnt he become immortal?

No, not at all. First, the grail tales themselves never mention immortality. or Asolution from sin, or for that matter, healing. However, everything attributed to Jesus (especially the miracles) has become attributed to the grail. To that, you can add what's written in the Apocrypha, that being, that the grail can sustain life, which is quite different from granting immortality. (The difference of course being, that while Joseph was in prison, the grail sustained him. When he was released and traveled to Europe, he stopped eating from the grail. He then began to age as any man ages, and died a normal death.)

Hey, Seraphim...GOOD WORK!

[edit on 13-3-2006 by Toelint]