Healthy Skeptic OBE-ers?

Hello ATS! And more specifically, readers of the Paranormal Studies section.

I'm new to the forums but have been lurking for many years. I typically don't make threads this early into my time on a forum, but I've been so pleased with the array of topics that it's hard to sit on my hands and not make my own.

My main reason for joining the forum was to discuss astral projection/OBEs(Yes, yet another OBE thread in this section). The River Goddess' popular thread about her experience with The Yanker was what finally got me excited enough to join up see if I could learn anything from the folks here on the board.

To get my relatively short story out of the way, I have experienced the full on OBE phenomenon once, and have been trying for 7+ years to have another, with no success. Years before my experience I had researched the phenomenon while reading about other paranormal abilities, and wasn't quite sure what to make of it. Was it wishful thinking? A vivid imagination? That certainly seemed like a possibility. After all, the people who were claiming to be able to leave their bodies were the same people who thought they were reincarnated werewolves, or claimed to be able to light matches with their mind, or throw lightning balls. Not that I wasn't open to the possibility of paranormal abilities, I wouldn't have wasted my time researching them if I thought it wasn't possible, but it was evident that such claims were often times the "big fish stories" of fourteen year olds who watched too much TV, and as a result the legitimate sounding claims went unnoticed because they were boring by comparison. Whatever the case, none of the techniques I read worked for me, I didn't have much luck with anything to do with the paranormal.

Years later, like many others who experience this, I woke up in the middle of the night with sleep paralysis. I had known from reading about the phenomenon for so long that this was the key state described by the Monroe Institute(among others), mind awake, body asleep. I was able to easily will myself up and out for a brief, but significant, experience. As someone who maintains a healthy skepticism, I was surprised that the phenomenon was legitimate. Understand that by legitimate I mean only that one can experience it. Firm skeptics and firm believers can argue what the experience actually -is- all day long, but that's not the intent of the thread. For most, what matters is that it happens. Nothing else.

My goal in creating this topic is to reach out to those who I would consider "Average Joes". Objective individuals who have not bought into the new age clutter that often surrounds this subject, yet have experienced the phenomenon for themselves, or have even developed their ability to proficiency. Basically, someone whose "essence", if you will, doesn't scream "I BELIEVE EVERYTHING". It's a rare mind set to come across in this field, but I figured I would ask.

After 7+ years of trying to have another experience, and failing, I can't help but be a little frustrated with the current state of OBE/AP "education", for lack of a better term. We now have great information available to us, what with series such as Lucidology 101, which not only state the importance of sleep paralysis as a requirement for these experiences, but give a boatload of information as to how to achieve this state. Yet I constantly see the same bits and pieces of advice thrown around that contain the same useless philosophy and superfluous steps. Breath deep, align the chakras, open the third eye, keep a dream journal, relax the mind, etc etc. People cling to these outdated pieces of advice. Not to say that these are useless exercises, just that these have been repeated so often that they have become undeserving pillars of OBE/AP lore, and that anyone who has spent ten minutes researching the topic knows that that alone isn't going to shoot you out of your body. Not to mention the delusional unicorn kisses and pixie glitter theatrics that people like to throw around these days.

I'm curious to hear from those who have been in the same boat as me. Obviously, people have been experiencing and researching this for years longer than I have, those same people probably read the same garbage that I did, and chances are some of them learned how to do it despite the terrible, vague information contained in most literature on the topic. If they were able to do it with such little guidance, their learning experience must have been unique. I'm very interested to hear their perspectives. I'm not sure what kind of response this will yield, but it will be interesting whatever the case.

Thanks for your time everyone.

Morgenstern

Thanks for sharing.

I think I am in the same boat as you, I have had 2 very clear experiences out of the body and a few more subtle ones; I have not been able to recreate the experience since. I am slightly read in monroes techniques, which I find more 'useful' than most of the new age jargin I usually read. It was my OBEs that led me to Robert Monroe's Experiences out of body, after reading I was very scared to even attempt making it happen. In the last few weeks my desire for going out of body has come up with great vigor, lately I am trying the counting method, letting my body slowly slump into sleep while trying to keep my mind up. No success yet. Last night I was able to let my hand slowly drop out of its skin into my matress, the moment I tried to really feel it I was awake again.

I find the barrier between the waking and sleeping state is very fine, I am yet to break it by any method, its been mostly chance. Its like when I try to use 'effort' I am sucked into body awareness again. Are there specific methods you have tried I would love to pick your brain.

I do believe the key to astral projection, is how to transmutate sexual energy. You should google the transmutation of sexual energy. This is where you bring the sexual energy up the spine, to the brain, once in the brain, it activates areas of the brain that are dormant, and during this time, if you try to astral project you will.

You might also want to look into the teachings of rosicrucianism.

My first experience was amazing. My blog at the bottom of this post, is things that I have woken up to, observed, been inspired by, and had sudden insight of. Maybe it will help you.

Astral projection, is really, just meditation.

I have a technique that works most of the time, the only time it fails is when I don't follow proper technique. It has nothing to do with paranormal...... It has to do with altered states of consciousness. I just go into SP when I go to bed, I take supplements. Have you not tried supplements?

I am not the guy you are looking for. It came to me naturally and most of the time I do it on accident, and personally I think a lot of the info out there isn't too bad. I will say that you can't force them to happen, my problem, ironically, is trying too hard. My other problem is getting excited right when it starts which ends it right away. Remain calm and don't think too hard about it. Sorry if that is just more of the same vague advice you've been getting.

Edit- Guaranteed LDs! Unfortunately it's prescription so you can't buy it. But when I went to Africa I was on this med to prevent malaria called malarone and literally one of the side effects is lucid dreaming and nightmares (I had one really really messed up nightmare on it and now I regret bringing this up lol because it is grossing me out just thinking about it, I only had one bad dream though). It gave me LDs every night, no OBEs though. It makes the dream kick in before sleep paralysis, actually can be hard to go to sleep on it, really weird. If you really want to have LDs, take a trip to somewhere with a malaria problem lol

reply to post by Morgenstern89


When I was 16 years old, I had my first out-of-body experience. It was intense, I woke up thinking something was strange and odd. I stood up and walked over to the light switch to turn on the light. I remember the room being lit by the moonlight, it was dark. When I reached the first time for the switch, the light didn't turn on. I was still a little tired so thought that maybe I missed it and took a bit more care to turn the light on.

The second time, I noticed my fingers passing through the light-switch, and it remained in the off position. Not knowing what was going on, I frantically hit the switch several times watching as my hand passed through. I pulled my hand back and looked at it. It was completely transparent with a thin light-blue outline.

Then I turned and looked at my bed. I saw my body lying there and suddenly fear gripped me. Was I dead? What the hell was going on? I was completely awake and aware. It was like a lucid dream, but far more attuned to my normal waking self.

Fear took over and I froze, only to then feel myself shoot back into my body and wake up. That would be the first over over 4,000 OBE and lucid-dream related experiences that I would have.

I'm better for having them. Fear has long since been abandoned for freedom that very few know they could ever posses.

I've always been interested in the occult, supernatural, or what have you but I take everything I hear on message boards like this with a grain of salt. That's just my personal approach. I will say this is a great topic, the OP comes off as very sincere. Although I will admit to taking paranormal experiences with a grain of salt, as I mentioned, there are certain experiences I've had that defy a conventionally "rational" explanation.

I personally have had 2 Out of Body Experiences in my life. That's not including the Near Death Experience I had. My first Out of Body Experience was a willful attempt. Lucky for me, I was able to achieve the results I wanted on my second try. I was only a kid at the time, and the results were a little too real. I ended up not leaving the room, while in my etheric body. In fact I was afraid to go back to sleep. There was nothing dream like about the experience. It was as real as myself writing to you on this keyboard right now.

My second OBE was by accident after taking a nap. Once I was out of my body this time I moved around freely without fear. I ended up following my dad around and being able to recall things that happened to him while my consciousness was free. Things I couldn't have known given the proximity of my physical "sleeping" body.

I have only had one out of body experience many years ago. I wasn't trying to have one, it just happened. At first I thought I died. I have to say that I have never attempted to have one since. I guess because I fear I may not return. In any case, it has left me open minded to other things that we cannot easily dismiss.

You can only do it when you're in a certain state of mind (easier said than done).
This certain state of mind comes after the body is dead, totally and I mean totally relaxed.
You could be playing football all day, then come back and lie down on the sofa watching tv. You're not really paying attention to what's on tv as your whole body is relaxed. By the time you realize it, your body is paralized.
You're stuck in sleep paralysis.
So the conclusion for me is simple, to get to that state of mind you need to relax your body.
So meditation is good, but if you don't burn steam, it's useless.

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. So far so good.

El1jah: What were your more subtle experiences like? Every once in a while I have woken up with sleep paralysis yet I've been too "out of it", so to speak, to attempt an exit. There were odd hypnagogic hallucinations, which were weird enough to have probably resulted in a bad experience, so I'm kind of glad I didn't attempt anything those times.

Shadowfax: You are speaking of kundalini energy, correct? I've done a bit of reading on the subject in the past, and while very interesting, it was way above my head. I'll definitely check out your blog.

SadbutTrue: "Supplements" whether something legal like over the counter melatonin or borderline/illegal like many "other" substances, probably aren't that great of an idea. I'm sure if one just wants to experience it, it probably works fine. But if one's intention is to become proficient at it, it would probably be much better to learn to do it naturally, with no dependance on an outside influence.

Cream: I'd definitely be interested to hear from someone who it comes to naturally. If it comes to you frequently and accidentally, have you noticed any patterns as far as what you had done that day, your level of tiredness, what time you went to bed, etc?

YouAreDreaming: Wow, that is quite impressive. Over how many years did all of those experiences take place? It sounds like your first experience was an accident, I'm assuming that with a massive number like 4000 you must have taught yourself to do it afterwards. What was your learning experience like?

Rhamavatha: Very interesting, thank you for sharing. My experience was very real too. I tend to question individuals who feel that their experience was dream like, thinking perhaps it was a vivid lucid dream that just happened to take the "shape" of an OBE. I'm like you, mine was as real as my regular waking life. The experience where you followed your father around is impressive. Did you discuss the experience with him, telling him things about what he was doing? How far away was he from you? Another room, or a greater distance?

Night Star: My experience opened my mind to a lot too. I wouldn't be too worried about not being able to get back in though. Sometimes people have problems "sticking" in their body once they go back, but they get it quickly. Usually any kind of fear will jolt you back anyway. You should give it another shot!

Dr. Cosma: Amen, easier said than done. I think one of the hardest parts of this is that we kind of trick ourselves into thinking we are relaxed, when really we are nowhere close. We know the difference between simply laying still, and being completely relaxed. And those of us who have trouble inducing sleep paralysis, probably if we thought about it, would realize we are nowhere near relaxed when we go about attempting this. Usually, I'm flat on my back, hands at my side when I'm attempting to induce paralysis. I can't get relaxed that way, I'm constantly tensing up, but that's the proper position, so to speak. When I'm truly relaxed I'm usually in some strange position, I find myself breathing naturally as if I were asleep, etc.

I can't recall where I read this, but it suggested that one should attempt to fall into true relaxation on their side or stomach, and then slowly flip over to their back, trying to maintain that relaxation. Again, easier said than done, but I need to experiment with it more.

Last night I was forcing myself to lay still, for about two hours. The closest I usually get to sleep paralysis is what I would call a squeezing sensation, which feels like you are about ready to pop out. But the paralysis sensation is more of a downward pressure, whereas this feels like it's from all sides. I attempted to take it further by continuing to try and relax, but nothing came of it. As I've said before, I'm very aware of being inside my own head, and body. I'm pretty dug in to this flesh suit. I'll give it another shot tonight and play around with it.

As far as Day Vs. Night, what does everyone think about the best time to attempt this? In my years of trying, I've never managed to slip back into paralysis when I wake up in the morning, as many suggest to try. Afternoon naps, and nighttime attempts make the most sense to me. But people swear by doing it in the morning or setting aside time during the day. Thoughts?

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
YouAreDreaming: Wow, that is quite impressive. Over how many years did all of those experiences take place? It sounds like your first experience was an accident, I'm assuming that with a massive number like 4000 you must have taught yourself to do it afterwards. What was your learning experience like?

Yes, I learned how to induce them by focusing my intent and attention during sleep. The learning expeirence was beyond my expectations as it in many ways was like peeling away the layers of reality like an Onion. There was a tremendous amount of discovery that I had no idea of; until such point that having these expeirences exposed me too.

Being conscious during sleep is merely the tip of a vast ice-burg of oneself. Personally, I think this skill and ability is vital for growth in human consciousness, it should be made public, taught in schools and everyone should practice being awake during sleep. I feel guilty knowing what I take to my grave really. That said, one can only gain from these expeirences, they are a vital insight into the deeper nature of human experience and it's relationship with what reality is.

A most excellent journey.

The Problem I have with the "common" literature on OBEs/Astral Projection is that like someone said: There's enough "techniques" out there but none of the "how to" out there. Seeing as you mentioned the Monroe Institute, it's actually a good thing you found them in my opinion - The reason I liked the Gateway Experience discs was it didn't focus on techniques, but to get you in the right mindset.

I have experienced my fair share of astral projections, and can tell you that you don't need all the "fancy" gadgets to do this - you do NOT need to "raise your chakras", you don't even have to meditate. You don't need binaural beats, frequency tones, hypnosis, subliminal messages tapes (Although these can sometimes help). There isn't any "spells" or magick that can do this instantly.

The reason everyone goes for the "fancier" items (such as what I mentioned above), is because it gives you something to "focus" on while going to sleep. Assuming you follow the "mind awake, body asleep" methodology, when you go to "sleep", if you are not focused on something, then your "mind" will also go into dreaming instead of staying awake.

The only things you really need are:
1. Relaxed state of mind & body
2. Intention
3. Good Visualization (optional).

Ironically, I am a scientific-oriented person, and yet have experienced psychic moments in the past. I also did an experiment a while back (long time), in which I attempted to have one astral projection a night.

Here's my basic method:
1. Relax yourself physically (do stretches, read, meditate, etc...)

2. Use a CD Player, MP3 Player, or Stereo (if headphones bother you) and play your favorite music (note: try not to pick something loud - I use classical at a low volume).

3. While laying in bed, try to focus on the music - do not get tense, just relax and focus on it.

4. If you start getting "weird effects" (such as increased heartbeat, body vibrating, or hearing/seeing images or voices in your head), you are getting close, and continue to relax.

5. When you think you are ready, try a "technique" (ie rolling out, flying, etc).

This technique gained me a couple projections - it stopped working because my body started to consider the music as "background noise", and filtered it out (same reason people can sleep through trains if they live next to the railroad tracks).

As for other information out on the web, I have a few resources you may be interested in. These deal with a methodology called "Phasing", which I consider to be "closer" to the best way (Think about it - Robert Monroe was a salesperson if I remember correctly; as plain and ordinary as any one of us. He wasn't using chakras or anything of the like at the time. Instead, he was doing it spontaneously, and eventually found a way to make it work without all the "aids" that are now on the market)

Links for consideration:
Phasing Ebook: Free Ebook

This is a simple guide that might benefit some - the ebook is free, and they also offer a hardcover edition for a price.

Frank Kepple Resource: Frank Kepple Resource

Finally, I will say that the reason I read up on the subject was because it has happened enough times to me before I found the literature. And as a final note (for now) - the easiest way to experience this is to have the intention to. What all these guides and videos did get right is that it will take time to do it (I've been at it for about 10 years, and still only have a handful to boot).

-fossilera

reply to post by Morgenstern89

Usually, I'm flat on my back, hands at my side when I'm attempting to induce paralysis. I can't get relaxed that way, I'm constantly tensing up, but that's the proper position, so to speak. When I'm truly relaxed I'm usually in some strange position, I find myself breathing naturally as if I were asleep, etc. I can't recall where I read this, but it suggested that one should attempt to fall into true relaxation on their side or stomach, and then slowly flip over to their back, trying to maintain that relaxation. Again, easier said than done, but I need to experiment with it more.

It's weird because the times that it's happend to me I've been laying down on my side.
I have done it before with my back flat on the bed, but like you said I'm more comfortable in some weird position.
It's not easy to enter that state of mind and body and that's where most people fail.
They think they're relaxed enough but they're not.
How can we?
When we're being bombarded with tv commercials all day and stuff that will turn your mind into mash.
I tried to visualise once myself standing a metre away from my bed looking at myself.
I went to sleep with this thought. I suddenly woke up standing a metre away and saw myself sleeping, but that time I got scared, I was afraid. I don't know why, but I was.
Next thing I was back in bed but it worked, so I was happy that at least it worked.

So besides our own realm, I read where others have gone to different dimensions. What do you people see and experience there????

Thanks for the post, fossilera.

I see your point about many of the techniques just being something to focus on. But, focus and intent only go so far. Sleep paralysis, it seems, is still a requirement. That's the door to all of it. If I lay still for long enough, I go numb, to the point where I can't quite remember where my arms and legs are positioned, and I get some vibrations. But, that is very different from being paralyzed, which seems to be something a lot of techniques don't take into account.

Most sites describing wake induced OBEs describe how to 'trick' your body into going into sleep paralysis by learning to recognize, and then ignore, the test signals your brain sends to see if you are asleep. And supposedly, after doing that for a while, paralysis eventually falls over you. This has never happened for me, unfortunately. I know exactly what the sensation feels like, and I never get anywhere close to it when practicing. Feels like it's just beyond reach, you know?

Spending hours upon hours forcing myself to lay still over the years, and having no results, leaves me very disappointed with most techniques. I think we put too much stock in them, even the good ones, as they are all written to be overly simplistic and optimistic. I think it really says something about Monroe that he was able to do it without any kind of direction. How many times did you experience it randomly before you began to research and try to induce it yourself?

reply to post by Morgenstern89


Your problem, is simple. You must let go of the ego. In other words, stop thinking. Learn how to clear your mind when trying to enter paralysis. Breathe deeply, for several breaths, and while doing this, count 1 on each breath out. If you can count to 10, without letting your mind stray too other thoughts, you should start to feel yourself slipping away. Count to 20, in the same manner, and you should have entered sleep paralysis. Once you get good enough at this, you can do it fairly quickly, at any time, as long as theres no distractions around you.

Is that the method you personally use? Can you personally induce sleep paralysis that quickly? If so, then that's fascinating, and very lucky. Clearing the mind, relaxing, deep breathing, all those actions are helpful in the process, but they are very common knowledge. Common knowledge which, for most people practicing this, has proven to be ineffective. It's a very vague, optimistic technique. One of those that has, as I've mentioned before, become an undeserving pillar of OBE lore. Sleep paralysis will not come that easily for most people using that method.

If one watches the Lucidology series on Youtube, it becomes clear that falling into sleep paralysis while maintaining consciousness is really counter intuitive for your body, that's why the videos attempt to teach you to recognize those signs and signals and work around them to progress to sleep paralysis without your mind falling asleep. Because of that, I can't help but believe that deep breathing and relaxation alone aren't enough to break a biological process that the body performs on a nightly basis.

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
Thanks for the post, fossilera.

I see your point about many of the techniques just being something to focus on. But, focus and intent only go so far. Sleep paralysis, it seems, is still a requirement. That's the door to all of it. If I lay still for long enough, I go numb, to the point where I can't quite remember where my arms and legs are positioned, and I get some vibrations. But, that is very different from being paralyzed, which seems to be something a lot of techniques don't take into account.

Most sites describing wake induced OBEs describe how to 'trick' your body into going into sleep paralysis by learning to recognize, and then ignore, the test signals your brain sends to see if you are asleep. And supposedly, after doing that for a while, paralysis eventually falls over you. This has never happened for me, unfortunately. I know exactly what the sensation feels like, and I never get anywhere close to it when practicing. Feels like it's just beyond reach, you know?

Spending hours upon hours forcing myself to lay still over the years, and having no results, leaves me very disappointed with most techniques. I think we put too much stock in them, even the good ones, as they are all written to be overly simplistic and optimistic. I think it really says something about Monroe that he was able to do it without any kind of direction. How many times did you experience it randomly before you began to research and try to induce it yourself?

Well, if my memory serves it right - before researching it (remember, I started when I was an early teen), I used to have a lot of "uncontrolled" projections, in that I wasn't even aware it was happening until I came "crashing" back into my bed (That one was crazy - I remember "feeling" the impact of "hitting" the bed - and instantly thought I woke everyone up).

After my researching phase, the amount of uncontrolled experiences (and the few I was able to control) also dropped. The difference I noticed was that when an occasional projection had occurred, I was now more aware that it was happening (and I remembered more details after it was over).

Ah, so you're having the same problem with the sleep paralysis? Even though most literature out there puts emphasis on it, I still don't view it as the most important step; Staying focused on achieving the projection would still be my #1.

If you cannot feel where your body or body parts are, I would say you are actually relaxed enough to try a technique (all paralysis does is make it impossible for you to move - I'm sure you've already heard the theory it's there to keep you from acting out your dreams). Also, it is quite possible to have SP and not be able to project - happened to me yesterday morning (I had the intention, and SP, but still didn't achieve anything this time).

As for Monroe, he was probably the closest to making a "scientific" approach to the topic - His goal when the Monroe Institute was created, was to make astral projection easier for everyone, and most of the methods I'm aware of originated with him. What I can fault him for is that the methods were meant for what work with the individuals that studied the phenomenon, and not for "everyone" (for example, one person may get sleep paralysis and have a projection, whereas another would go into a "trance" and have a projection).

In short, my best experiences have always started out "at random" (meaning I wasn't intending to have them that night). I was able to control some of these, when I realized I was having them. Also, they never lasted as long as some authors claim - most of the ones I tracked only occurred for about 10 minutes or less. As for tricking your body to go to sleep, the easiest one is to get into a comfy position in bed (I sleep on my side), and count something - It's easy because when the body wants to go to sleep, it will; no trick will shorten that process.

-fossilera

That's what I thought at first too, that perhaps that state would be enough to get out of body. It's definitely a strange state. A slight squeezing feeling, the semi-numb sensation, a pressure on the ears that feels like I'm on an airplane (which I experienced during my only OBE), tinnitus, and "waves" or slight vibrations. Several sensations that, to me, are indicative of some kind of altered state, and readiness to attempt an exit. But, even though I've been able to get to that state a few times, my awareness stays firmly planted within the body, and I can still move easily if I want to. While I agree that staying focused on the goal of an OBE is important, you still need a "vehicle", if you will, into achieving your goal, which is usually sleep paralysis.

In another thread I mentioned something about OBEs probably getting easier with each success. It sounds like kind of an obvious idea, but it holds true for a lot of stuff, and probably this as well. The only problem is that it is difficult to have one, let alone a bunch of repeatable successes. Sleep paralysis is like a bike. If we only had access to a bike once every few years when we were kids, we probably wouldn't be able to ride it so well now. Definitely wouldn't be able to jump right on and go. I think once someone has mastered sleep paralysis, it becomes less and less necessary to use, or perhaps even happens so quickly that one doesn't even think they are entering it, because they know how to "just do it", just like how we can just get on a bike and not think about each individual action which makes the thing go. Trying to exit, even when in an altered state, will be difficult if we have too much awareness of our body. Not impossible, but nearly.

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
That's what I thought at first too, that perhaps that state would be enough to get out of body. It's definitely a strange state. A slight squeezing feeling, the semi-numb sensation, a pressure on the ears that feels like I'm on an airplane (which I experienced during my only OBE), tinnitus, and "waves" or slight vibrations. Several sensations that, to me, are indicative of some kind of altered state, and readiness to attempt an exit. But, even though I've been able to get to that state a few times, my awareness stays firmly planted within the body, and I can still move easily if I want to. While I agree that staying focused on the goal of an OBE is important, you still need a "vehicle", if you will, into achieving your goal, which is usually sleep paralysis.

In another thread I mentioned something about OBEs probably getting easier with each success. It sounds like kind of an obvious idea, but it holds true for a lot of stuff, and probably this as well. The only problem is that it is difficult to have one, let alone a bunch of repeatable successes. Sleep paralysis is like a bike. If we only had access to a bike once every few years when we were kids, we probably wouldn't be able to ride it so well now. Definitely wouldn't be able to jump right on and go. I think once someone has mastered sleep paralysis, it becomes less and less necessary to use, or perhaps even happens so quickly that one doesn't even think they are entering it, because they know how to "just do it", just like how we can just get on a bike and not think about each individual action which makes the thing go. Trying to exit, even when in an altered state, will be difficult if we have too much awareness of our body. Not impossible, but nearly.

I won't argue that you do need "something" to get the projection attempt started; in my case, the intention is probably the most successful, as I still have not found a definite method of inducing sleep paralysis alone. I have also heard that you can try to induce a lucid dream, and project from that (again, it's more common knowledge - I've found it in all the major authors out there).

Maybe it would be easier to attempt a lucid dream and try from there? I ask because it seems the difference between lucid dreaming & astral projection attempts is becoming aware that you are dreaming, rather than "forgetting" about the body and trying to attempt. I've never tried this (as my lucid dreaming experiences are only slightly more than astral projections - plus, knowing you are in a dream can lead to distractions, and I got caught up in all the fun), but it might be a different area to experiment with. Have you tried something similar in the past? (just asking out of curiosity).

And I see your point on the sleep paralysis - technically, once you learn something, it just "clicks" in (like breathing).

You know, there may be something psychological also getting in the way (not saying your are scared, or deep down not believing it is possible) - because a friend of mine once described the reason she enjoyed "the bottle" a little too much.

I enjoy doing it because it makes me feel all humming and buzzing on the inside; sometimes I can hear an engine going, or feel electricity racing through my pores...I also feel like I sometimes am hovering over everyone and no where near my body... - Female A

(NOTE: I do not encourage excessive alcohol use, but included this as an example to further support my point.).

To me, she gave a pretty good description of an astral projection (with the typical vibrations). She also said (when sober), that feelings & sensations like that don't normally happen - but only at that time. I've gotten similar elements said from other people - which means that there might be something to that theory. It could be that everyone is a skeptic on the inside, which is causing the problem.

Imagine being scared or a skeptic as a "barrier" everyone has - when they are running on a lack of sleep, or not thinking about it, or a similar state of mind, it could be that the portion of the brain "creating" the barrier has reduced functionality, and thus allowing different emotions.

(Sorry if some of this seems vague or cut off - I've only had about 5 hours of sleep total over the past few days. Hopefully, the lack of sleep put my mind in the right mood to project later on tonight

-fossilera