Obesity Pandemic - Infectious, or Personal Responsibility?

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by soficrow

 

But obesity IS a common symptom of now-pandemic diseases

Perhaps it is the cause and not a symptom.

You're right - the associations, relationships and impacts involved are not clear cut and straightforward - or linear. Most likely obesity is part of a disease cascade, occurring as disease moves through the body and affects different cells and systems.

There is NO doubt that environmental factors influence -and determine- gene expression, or that obesity is epigenetic. …Exposure to environmental toxins and contaminants obviously play a huge role in gene regulation. Eg.:

Obesity, Epigenetics, and Gene Regulation

....this epigenetic mechanism clearly demonstrates how profoundly environment can affect gene expression and phenotype in a long-lasting way.

The majority of the time, it's personal responsibility. As a child, it's usually your parents responsiblilty. As an adult, it's your responsibility.

Yes there are certain thyroid issues that some have, but they are few and far between. The majority of the time, it's a lifestyle issue. Americans eat more, and exercise less then just about any other country out there.

I do worry about the kids though. Whether or not your parents contribute in some way to the obesity of a child, pulling that child from a home can have long term effects. Just wish parents acted more responsibly. Parenting in this country has rapidly gone down hill.

Various studies have shown that our brain activity slows when we are watching TV (something to do with the frequency of the picture) and after 30 mins we go into a subdued and suggestible state. Just think of how many TV food ads would be seen in a few hours of viewing per day.

Put this together with internet browsing and advertisements we might see out and about and you can see we are bombarded with messages about eating in order to feel good.

The trouble is the food that is marketed to us as 'feel good' is actually useless in terms of nutrition and actually addictive in terms of sugar and carbohydrate content. Therefore large corporations have developed a strategy to get people and their children hooked. There was less TV and internet years ago so obviously this correlates to obesity today. The sugar addiction factor is important as many don't realise they're hooked. They have to consume more to feel ok.

A kind of brainwashed mentality has developed amongst parents where they think that by giving their children instantaneous pleasure in the form of junk food, that they are nurturing them, they aren't. From the same brainwashing sources they also have an idea that another product will fix the damage they've done...it won't. People must stop blindly consuming what is offered and switch off the TV.

I also have no problem believing an 8/9 year old could be 200 lbs with no medical condition. Today many people are consuming 3 or 4 thousand calories when they only need 1/2 or 1/3 of that and many do very little physical activity.

reply to post by MysticPearl

reply to post by DrHammondStoat


GAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

I spend HOURS researching this stuff and half the members don't read the posts nevermind click on the linkies - do they think "opinions" are genetic or what?!? No research, education -or godforbid!- actual informed thought required?

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


I suspect you might misunderstand my thesis here. My concern is that the impacts of industrial pollution and contamination are being dismissed outright, and individuals are being made solely responsible for all that ails them, under the banner of "personal responsibility in health" even though many, if not most exposures are beyond individual control.

I'm focusing on prions and misfolded proteins not because I think they're the only culprit, but because they are a common mechanism linking the disparate impacts on human health from different environmental contaminations.

....I confess I do not understand your agenda, although you clearly have one. Are you simply arguing to support the legitimacy of 'alternative health' solutions, or are you trying to defend corporate industry from liability charges?

reply to post by Domo1


NCDs are pandemic. The four main NCDs are cancer, heart disease, diabetes and lung disease. Obesity is common in NCD patients, but everyone with NCDs is not obese - so we know obesity is not inherent to acquired and sporadic NCDs. NCD-related obesity seems to appear only after the disease agent infects victims' neurons. NCDs are not genetic, but can be passed on epigenetically without affecting DNA. Recent epidemics of NCDs with obesity in children suggest epigenetically inherited NCDs involve the nervous systems from the get-go.

Originally called "diseases of civilization," then "chronic disease," NCDs appeared and spread along with industry. Scientific research from the 1960's to the present absolutely links NCDs to industrial pollution and contaminations. There is NO doubt pollution and industrial contaminations cause cancer, heart disease and lung disease, as well as various systemic disruptions and disorders affecting the hormonal, immune and nervous systems - the "controversies" are distract and deflect strategies involving percentages, and a misplaced demand to describe single contaminants' linear cause-and-effect.

Industry's strategy involves covering up the NCD Pandemic to avoid liability. From about 2000-2010, the main cover story was that NCDs are "age-related," backed up by the ongoing campaign to establish the idea that "health is a personal responsibility" firmly in the public mind. When young adults and children started dropping like flies, our corporate leaders shifted the focus from the four major NCDs to obesity - arguably, just a symptom and side-effect - to distract the public's attention from the Big Four NCDs, back to the "health is a personal responsibility" campaign, and away from industry's role in creating the NCD Pandemic.

At September's emergency NCD Pandemic summit, the World Economic Forum (WEF) said the NCD Pandemic: 1) will cost $47 Trillion by 2020; and 2) is an economic issue, not a health issue. The WEF represents global corporate and industrial interests. Corporate industry's goal is to protect profits and evade liability, NOT protect public health; industry's standard legal defence against pollution-related lawsuits is to blame the victims, claiming victims' health problems result from "bad diet, irresponsible lifestyle, or genetics - not industrial pollution or contaminations."

The WEF's tactics were successful. The NCD Pandemic is now defined as "an economic issue, not a health issue" - corporate industry's legal ruse to "blame the victims" is now global public health policy - the focus is on obesity, not the Big Four pandemic NCDs - and nobody's talking about industry's role in creating the NCD Pandemic. Even alternative health practioners have jumped on the bandwagon, saying "health is a personal responsibility."

From a self-help perspective, absolutely - a healthy diet, daily exercise and clean living go a long way to delay disease progression and preserve "quality of life." But like obesity, even cancer is just a symptom of the underlying disease - treating the symptoms, however effectively, does NOT cure the underlying disease or remove the underlying cause.

reply to post by soficrow


I still don't understand what you hope to accomplish. I mean, industry is a very broad term, and contamination is absolutely unavoidable in the 21st century. As long as industrialized civilization stays afloat, the pollution will stack up against our favor. What would you have us do?

If "industry" was liable for all these potential claims, they would be out of business. If "industry" is out of business, say goodbye to advanced civilization. If we do nothing, but what we can with our personal lifestyle choices, the exact same thing happens. The environment gets too mucked up, and advanced civilization collapses under the mass of various pressures.

So it's the same damned thing. Either way, lots of people die out. They die out if we take away industry, or if it takes out our social structures. So what's the point? Shouldn't we be focusing on what we can take care of? I have the choice on whether or not I stick plastic IV in my veins, or place a cell phone to my ear. I have a choice on what I want to eat, and where it comes from. I have a choice to live with the ups and downs of a city life (increased EM smog, bad air quality, high tension...), or move out to the rural areas. I don't have an option to shutdown industry and make them responsible. All I can realize is that there's a ton of ignorant fools who choose to do stupid things, and they will pay the consequences in time. Let them be the guinea pigs. I'll choose to have as healthy of a lifestyle as I choose to invest energies.

reply to post by unityemissions

I still don't understand what you hope to accomplish.

Neither do I, but as I learn, little steps appear.

.....For starters, I hate to see people get screwed - and that's what's happening. I'd like to see it stopped. I'd like to see people NOT be blamed for over-feeding their children when the child obviously suffers from epigenetically inherited NCD-related obesity. I'd like every damned police officer in every police force in the world educated to understand that crib-death and shaken-baby syndrome are NOT de facto evidence of murder - that epigenetically inherited NCDs with vascular effects are becoming increasingly common, and sometimes they're deadly.

I'd like the world to give my parents, and everyones' parents, credit for doing an incredible job in the face of incredible odds. I'd like the world to recognize that our children are inheriting not just a polluted planet, but a contaminated body. I'd like the world to acknowledge that our parents were lied to, we are lied to, our children are lied to - and it matters.




....Sorry. I was all set for a major rant, but the phone rang. Gotta go. bbl

reply to post by unityemissions

...contamination is absolutely unavoidable in the 21st century. As long as industrialized civilization stays afloat, the pollution will stack up against our favor. What would you have us do?

Clean up the mess; make it clear further pollution will not be tolerated; ground habitual vandals until they stop contaminating our home.

If "industry" was liable for all these potential claims, they would be out of business.

Fine. Let them off the hook for past crimes; nail them if they persist.

If "industry" is out of business, say goodbye to advanced civilization. If we do nothing, but what we can with our personal lifestyle choices, the exact same thing happens.

I suggest you rethink your definition of "advanced civilization."

The environment gets too mucked up, and advanced civilization collapses under the mass of various pressures.

Take a look around. Never mind global social chaos, we're facing the 6th Mass Extinction. And that includes the human species. Nobody is immune.

So what's the point? Shouldn't we be focusing on what we can take care of?

No kidding.

I have the choice on whether or not I stick plastic IV in my veins, or place a cell phone to my ear. I have a choice on what I want to eat, and where it comes from. I have a choice to live with the ups and downs of a city life (increased EM smog, bad air quality, high tension...), or move out to the rural areas.

Divide et impera; divide et regna. Maybe move on from the I and me, towards the conceptual "we."

I don't have an option to shutdown industry and make them responsible.

No, but "we" does.

All I can realize is that there's a ton of ignorant fools who choose to do stupid things, and they will pay the consequences in time. Let them be the guinea pigs. I'll choose to have as healthy of a lifestyle as I choose to invest energies.

Hate ta be the one to break it to ya guy, but no man is an island. You are not immune, and you WILL pay for others' mistakes if you're not already.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

....I confess I do not understand your agenda, although you clearly have one. Are you simply arguing to support the legitimacy of 'alternative health' solutions, or are you trying to defend corporate industry from liability charges?

Haha...come on, now. You know better. Corporate industry is a huge part of the misinformation being slung around about obesity, heart-disease, diabetes and other "diseases of civilization".

My point, or agenda as you've stated, is for you to please tell me how misfolded proteins contribute so heavily to obesity, diabetes and heart disease as you suggested in the OP. In fact, to clear up any confusion, Sofi, I'll go ahead and bullet point your quotes and my arguments against them.

Obesity is linked to high cholesterol, and contrary to popular myth, high cholesterol does NOT result primarily from a bad diet and too much dietary fat.

Obesity is certainly linked to hypercholesterolemia. But, in the general population (those without genetic propensities to have high cholesterol), dietary intervention absolutely corrects most cases of dyslipidemia. So...if diet isn't causing this, in most cases, why does dietary intervention correct the problem?

In fact, cholesterol is created in the body by disease-causing prions and other infectious misfolded proteins, which need cholesterol to propagate - infectious misfolded proteins hijack infected cells' metabolic machinery, and force them to create cholesterol and other fats. The connection between high cholesterol and prion disease was established by 1995.

Two points: (1) Why does dietary intervention seem to correct dyslipidemia if prions are the cause? And Sure there may be a connection between high cholesterol and prion disease, but what you don't know is if (a) Prion diseases cause high cholesterol, (b) high cholesterol alllows Prion formation and prion disease, (c) Prion disease AND high cholesterol are caused by another endogenous/exogenous factor or (d) if both are simply unrelated.

(2) High cholesterol is almost always a problem with...lipoprotein partitioning and receptor signaling, not the cholesterol itself. So, if prions are hijacking cells and increasing cholesterol syntehsis, the body does a good job at adjusting to over-production or over-intake.

Prions cause Mad Cow disease - not just obesity - and are just one strain of disease-causing infectious misfolded proteins. Other infectious misfolded proteins are associated with a wide range of now-pandemic diseases including diabetes, heart disease, cancer, asthma and other lung diseases as well as mental illnesses like autism, Alzheimer's and other dementias. And they're all pandemic. …..But are they connected? Duh. Do ya think?

Fine. They're connected. What the hell does that tell us? Unless you can describe the mechanisms involved that clearly show HOW prions cause obesity, hypercholesterolemia, heart-disease, diabetes, etc., then your argument makes as much sense as saying:

Morning radio shows come on just before the sun comes up. These two are connected, or associated. Based on these observations, I theorize morning radio shows cause the sunrise.

While you're trying to explain all of that...then try and explain how all of the aforementioned maladies are observed, often levels approaching those in the US, in populations WITHOUT industrial dietary influence.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Wotta guy. 3 posts of narrative bs, not one single link to back up your claims - yet you have the gall to lay out a HUGE list of demands, expecting me to drop my own priorities to play your silly games. Get a grip. I'm not here to do your research for you. Oh yeah, you did post an inaccessible 2005 op-ed piece for another member. ..........BLEEP.............Educate yourself! ...Here, let me help you get started. ..............BLEEP............

Obesity, Epigenetics, and Gene Regulation

…….Picture a network of molecules that are intimately intertwined with nuclear DNA and that have the power to silence genes. The behavior of this entourage of molecules can be altered by the environment (or "nurture," to use the terminology of the classic "nature versus nurture" debate) and can have a profound effect on an individual's phenotype. ….

Environmental Triggers
A number of environmental triggers have been shown to affect the behavior of an organism's epigenome, tipping the balance between methylation or lack thereof, and thus between genes that are "off" and those that are "on." ….

The implications of this discovery are staggering. With the rise of obesity in Americans coinciding with the widespread use of bisphenol A in everything from water bottles to dental sealants, one can't help wondering whether there is a causal connection. ….

But exactly how does exposure to bisphenol A affect both skin cells and brain cells? Through careful study, Jirtle found that the amount of DNA methylation was fairly consistent through an individual mouse's body. This result suggested that the demethylation that led to yellowness and obesity occurred in early development. ….bisphenol exposure didn't guarantee obesity in mice; rather, it simply increased the risk of developing obesity.

Environmental Protection
When gene expression goes awry during development, as in bisphenol-exposed mouse pups, the consequences can cause changes in adult mice that were not seen at birth. This phenomenon, called fetal programming, may play a role in many health conditions, including heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and cancer. ….

Recently, it has also been used to show that dietary factors can prevent the agouti gene from being turned on.

More specifically, not only did Jirtle's group find an increased risk of disease with maternal chemical exposure in mice, but they also noted that certain nutrients were protective. In particular, supplementing the mothers' diets with methyl-donating substances, such as folic acid and vitamin B12, was shown to counteract the reduction in DNA methylation caused by bisphenol A. In addition, a constituent of soy products called genistein prevented an increased number of unhealthy offspring. Whether a similar diet might reverse epigenetic effects once they appear, however, is unknown and awaits experimental testing. Despite such uncertainties, this epigenetic mechanism clearly demonstrates how profoundly environment can affect gene expression and phenotype in a long-lasting way.

reply to post by soficrow


Sofi, I'm not the one making outrageous claims in need of citing. I don't see what's so hard about even briefly describing how misfolded proteins heavily contribute to the obesity epidemic (or diabetes, heart disease). You're saying there's an association and that they're connected and then you're jumping straight to cause without providing any methods by which the process occurs. And now you want me to do my own research? That's not the way it works, Sofi.

Do I really need to cite studies every time I reference fairly well known biochemical facts? I mean, all ya gotta do is point out my "incredible claims" and I'll gladly cite them for you.

And did you even care to read my entire post with the only source I've provided in this thread? The first 100 words, which are there when you click through the link, are more than enough to support my claim, which was that there are overweight women mothering semi-starved children.

And I'm really not sure how that link even comes close to describing how misfolded proteins cause obesity, or even how prions cause high-cholesterol. The only thing that link is good for is describing how genetics play a role, but that genetic expressions are heavily influenced by environmental factors. In other words, one can have a genetic predisposition to develop certain diseases...but it's the environment that triggers the expression of the genes. This is nothing new to me

...but how does this describe the methods by which Prions cause obesity?

reply to post by soficrow


We now have growth hormones in our "meat"..............I grew up on a farm and our tomatoes, cows, chickens, milk, sheep, potatoes, all our food tasted completely different than the frap you get now.

Growth hormones, GMO, the birth control (estrogen in our water they can't totally remove), fluoride, plus the fact that now more than 45% of children live in one parent house holds.

It now takes two people working full time (or more) if they are lucky to have a job, to put food on the table and a roof over their head. One medical incident that insurance is good at wiggling out of and any family can go from having a home to homeless.

Most children, and I know because I stayed home with mine and baby sat other people's children to bring in money so I could safeguard what my kids eat.............most children from the age of 9 on are home alone from 3:00 PM to 6:00 PM.

TV pushes and pushes and pushes fatty crap food constantly..........also booze.

I'm not excusing the parents but there is a lot more going on here than just "bad bad parents".

State taking the kids away.....................good luck, many kids are raped, abused and passed around in the system - I've talked to some.

One last thought, In our suburb you don't see kids out playing any more, they stay home behind locked doors because of bullies, druggies, crazy idiots and not many wide play areas.

Our three sons were all skinny, until they hit around 25 and than two of the three that took after me had to start watching their weight. I could live on air..............if there was a nuclear war and I survived, I could live on 1/2 the food I see other woman my age consume and maintain my body weight. My parents were the same way.

My husband is thin and snacks all night long. I eat 3 well balance, measured meals (using CalorieKing Weight Manager Log) and exercise and still it's a constant battle to remain normal weight).

Don't judge..................everyone wants to judge everyone else, yet we all have our own problems.

I feel sorry for this child.

Infectious or personal responsibility?

I think a little of both, but think that our current lifestyle is a big factor.

Kids now are also under a lot of stress.

We have gone away from living the way we are suppose too.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by unityemissions

 

...contamination is absolutely unavoidable in the 21st century. As long as industrialized civilization stays afloat, the pollution will stack up against our favor. What would you have us do?

Clean up the mess; make it clear further pollution will not be tolerated; ground habitual vandals until they stop contaminating our home.

When I clean my house, the vacuum cleaner bag gets filled up. I proceed to dump the bag into the trash. The trash gets thrown into a landfill, and the whole world stays polluted. It's waste, that needs to be stored somewhere. Clean up, and store where? In space, perhaps? I'm not sure this is a viable solution..at least right this moment. Saying further pollution needs to be stopped, is like saying we have to take the humanity out of humanity. We poo, it reeks, and it's got to be flushed somewhere. That somewhere is still on this shiny blue pebble.

Fine. Let them off the hook for past crimes; nail them if they persist.

Well, I think it would take a ton of resources for each case to be called out, legally and scientifically. We'd exchange one burden for another. The system would become so backed up, and constrained by these regulations that the same would happen...collapse.

I suggest you rethink your definition of "advanced civilization."

I'll keep it simple and just say all that comes with the emergence of the information age. Pollution is an unavoidable biggie there.

Take a look around. Never mind global social chaos, we're facing the 6th Mass Extinction. And that includes the human species. Nobody is immune.

We've discussed this in detail over the years. I really don't think human beings are going to become extinct, and if they do..it's really just going to be an evolutionary step into at least one new species. Many, perhaps most will perish throughout the transitional process..many will suffer, many will live with sub-clinical ailments, but some will adapt, and some will perhaps have abilities which right now seem like magic! Think: x-men first class. I left the theater in awe by the connections that I was making between the fantasy film, and what's really going on.

Divide et impera; divide et regna. Maybe move on from the I and me, towards the conceptual "we."

Sofi, I love the "we". Do my best to think of the collective at all times. I've been using this "we" terminology for a long time to speak universally to the people. You know what? It's a farce. "we" don't really exist, but as a concept in our deluded minds. There are individuals who think, feel, and emote differently to each other. We all experience these qualitative differences. We have our own beliefs, and values. What I've come to the conclusion of, is that this "we" is no longer possible in the 21st century, as a power to promote social change. We are too divided, period. This collapse is inevitable, sofi. I don't much like it..hell, will be living through it, eventually. It's going to be very rough, and I don't welcome it...but see it as inevitable.

No, but "we" does.

Continued from above..no, I don't think we do. We have some people who are doing their own thing, some who care about social causes, some who can't comprehend what's going on, and everyone thinks a bit differently towards this. Shutting down industry would mean the death of hundreds of millions worldwide. You're not going to get the majority, who are guardians of the social order, to comply with this kind of change. It's only going to happen when it absolutely must, and I mean that as in after a collapse is inevitable...soon.

Hate ta be the one to break it to ya guy, but no man is an island. You are not immune, and you WILL pay for others' mistakes if you're not already.

I pay for them every day. I realize the nature of our existence is interdependent, but my above stance is still valid. I can't control the fools. I can't influence them enough, to avoid the inevitable. Neither can you, or anyone else in the 21st century. Obviously, if things were going to be set straight, they would have started shortly after our scientists confirmed that big mess we're in, and continuing to cause. That was decades ago.

What I don't understand about the 'personal responsibility' argument is who makes the rules for what a DECENT person is supposed to be responsible about?

Like, who decides you are supposed to be xyz exact weight or you are supposed to eat xyz calories?
You're supposed to go to bed at 8pm and get up at 6 or you are not a responsible person.
You are supposed to wash your car once a week or you are not a responsible person.
You are supposed to NEVER engage in sports or you are not a responsible person.
You ARE supposed to engage in sports and encourage your children to do so as a responsible parent.

I could go on and on and on. I just don't get it, especially when there is absolutely no direct cause-effect established, but merely a tipping of odds.

Things happen all the time that go against the odds. Sometimes you have something 'bad' happen that actually turns out to be very good in the long run in some way.

So I just don't get that argument.

Originally posted by hadriana
What I don't understand about the 'personal responsibility' argument is who makes the rules for what a DECENT person is supposed to be responsible about?

Society and culture.

Like, who decides you are supposed to be xyz exact weight or you are supposed to eat xyz calories?

Doctors and scientific researchers within the medical community. Thing is the better ones realize this is just a general guideline. If you hear a doctor speaking in absurd absolutes like this, ditch them for a better one.

You're supposed to go to bed at 8pm and get up at 6 or you are not a responsible person.
You are supposed to wash your car once a week or you are not a responsible person.
You are supposed to NEVER engage in sports or you are not a responsible person.
You ARE supposed to engage in sports and encourage your children to do so as a responsible parent.

People who naturally feel like this are called guardians from an MBTI standpoint. They are the majority in our society. Their focus is to keep the established order flowing. Chaos scares them poo-less. Many others end up adopting a lot of these types of these, just out of convenience. They don't necessarily believe in this, but learn to talk as if they do.

I could go on and on and on. I just don't get it, especially when there is absolutely no direct cause-effect established, but merely a tipping of odds.

I don't need to know a direct relationship between cause and effect to see sometimes things are interrelated, and general guidlines are best followed until better information is present. Seems like common sense to me, but meh...everyone's got their own version of what that words means..

Things happen all the time that go against the odds. Sometimes you have something 'bad' happen that actually turns out to be very good in the long run in some way.

So I just don't get that argument.

Well this I will definitely agree. What seems bad is a matter of perspective. Once you change the scope of context revolving around an issue, the value judgment can change as well. I have serious issues with being paralyzed deep in thought, and not knowing what is best because I can change scope and consider new information so easily. It sucks, tbh.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


My thesis is that protein misfolding represents an epigenetic adaptive response, and may be a primary evolutionary mechanism. As you know, the pathways are not fully elucidated - I caution everyone against buying any snake oil from any snake oil salesman who claims to "know the answers." *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

You challenge my every statement, consistently spout off the top of your head, claim your statements are "accepted science," never cite any references at all, then try to use your so-called "argument" to intimidate and bully me into doing a SHTpile of work combing thru old refs and more. Not amused. Not playing. PU. Go get someone else to chase their own tail for your personal entertainment. I'm busy. In that light, I also caution everyone here against getting sucked in by professional writers who attempt to intimidate and bully posters into doing their research for them so they can meet their deadlines and get paid lots of $$$ for others peoples' sweat and blood. *nudge, nudge, wink, wink* You can take what I bloody well choose to give you but how DARE you demand more of my time, energy or anything!

The links are there: prion -> cholereserol. As posted earlier:

…The prion-infected cell changes its gene expression and produces increased quantities of cholesterol. Prions need this for their propagation.
…………….
…prion propagation not only depends on the availability of cholesterol but …neuronal cells themselves respond to prions with specific up-regulation of cholesterol biosynthesis.
…………
……compared the amounts of protein and cholesterol in prion-infected neuronal cell lines and primary cortical neurons with uninfected controls. Protein levels were similar but the amount of total cholesterol (a mixture of free and esterified cholesterol) was significantly higher in the infected cell lines.
…………….
Cholesterol, Alzheimer's disease, prion disorders: a ménage à trois?

….misfolded proteins heavily contribute to the obesity epidemic (or diabetes, heart disease). You're saying there's an association and that they're connected

Yep. Misfolded proteins are now known to underlie a huge variety of "different" diseases. Accepted science. And many of those diseases often, but not always, involve obesity as a symptom. Well known. However, I do acknowledge that the current "blame the victim" campaign says people make themselves fat and then get sick because they're fat - but I don't buy it.

A huge variety of previously unrelated diseases, such as prion diseases, diabetes and cancer, share the pathological feature of aggregated misfolded protein deposits. This suggests the exciting possibility that these 'protein-misfolding diseases' are linked by common principles

It is now known that several major human diseases are associated with abnormal protein conformations and associations which inhibit normal biochemical function (protein misfolding). Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, some forms of heart disease, type II diabetes and the infectious prion diseases such as Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) are significant diseases that are associated with misfolded proteins1,2,3,4,5,6.

2002: Atherosclerosis: another protein misfolding disease?

2004: Convergence of atherosclerosis and Alzheimer’s disease: inflammation, cholesterol, and misfolded proteins

Cholesterol
The causal link between elevated serum cholesterol and atherosclerosis is well established.16 Prompted largely by results of epidemiological studies,17 the concept of altered cholesterol homoeostasis as an important factor in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer’s disease has emerged.

The crap we call food today is just garbage for our bodies. Myself, I am addicted to coke or pepsi soda. I know it is fortified with caffiene and high fructose corn syrup which is just crap for the body but it is harder to kick tan crack or powder coc aine..... from experience!. I don't see how all of the toxic food additives help our bodies. I see hormone simulators and growth hormones in our meats along with GMO corn and other genetic modifed food as the end of a process which hurts people in the long run.

a few days ago I was reading an article at naturalnews.com about how many food additives are not even approved but the companies just started using them....... that sounds right to me .....

reply to post by ofhumandescent

We have gone away from living the way we are suppose too.

We certainly have. And all those changes and exposures stress our systems - from the hormonal to immune and nervous systems. ...The natural world already throughs enough 'natural' stressors our way - it seems downright stupid to put even more crud on our plate.

.....Not to mention those atmospheric winds and hurricanes and whatnot that blow everything everywhere - nothing's left "clean" anymore.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

My thesis is that protein misfolding represents an epigenetic adaptive response, and may be a primary evolutionary mechanism.

Just so I understand....You're saying Prions are changing gene expression which results in factors that increase disease susceptibility indirectly (such as increasing cholesterol biosynthesis)?

If so, you have some holes in your thesis. For instance, the links you provided above addressing the link between cholesterol is clearly discussing an increase in intracellular cholesterol in neuronal cells (that's the brain), which doesn't affect serum cholesterol, LDL, HDL or VLDL in the periphery (that's the rest of the body). Regarding cholesterol synthesis in the cell, it's quite endogenous.

For some reason, you're mistakingly applying an intracellular, localized occurrence to one that is located in the serum throughout the body. That's quite the stretch, sofi. And, if you're doing it wittingly, it's exceptionally misleading.

Increased intracellular cholesterol is NOT the same as hypercholesterolemia, or what the general public calls high-cholesterol.

There could possibly be a way for your theory to work if Prions were infecting liver cells and affecting gene expression and down-regulating LDL receptor activity. Of course, if this were the case, then dietary intervention would not be an affective tool to restore serum cholesterol homeostasis; and since you're claiming that this is an epidemic that is affecting a large percentage of the popularity, and also seeing how dietary intervention does indeed work for MOST individuals (when done the right way, which is avoiding the foods that increase LDL receptor activity, etc.), it's not very probably to conclude that liver cells are being affected in such a way by Prions.

Your link about misfolding proteins and atherosclerosis actually has ties to a discussion we had in another thread regarding advanced glycation end-products. To say that the misfolding of the protein membrane surrounding a lipooprotein is caused by prions is a stretch. Even the authors of that op-ed didn't go that far. If I remember correctly, its that precise folding that happens to lipoproteins (LDL) that leads to small, dense lipoprotein, which is atherosclerotic. All of these processes are controlled by diet. That's an interesting article, to say the least. I, personally, subscribe to the idea that atherosclerosis is a disease of molecular degeneration and cellular miscommunication...as described by Chris Masterjohn.

You challenge my every statement, consistently spout off the top of your head, claim your statements are "accepted science," never cite any references at all, then try to use your so-called "argument" to intimidate and bully me into doing a SHTpile of work combing thru old refs and more. Not amused. Not playing. PU. Go get someone else to chase their own tail for your personal entertainment. I'm busy. In that light, I also caution everyone here against getting sucked in by professional writers who attempt to intimidate and bully posters into doing their research for them so they can meet their deadlines and get paid lots of $$$ for others peoples' sweat and blood. *nudge, nudge, wink, wink* You can take what I bloody well choose to give you but how DARE you demand more of my time, energy or anything!

I'm not even going to address this other than to say that it's a sad attempt to derail the topic, attack me personally and ignore my concerns with your incredible claims because you simply can't explain how or why Prions cause obesity or heart disease or hypercholesterolemia other than to say they co-exist and are correlated in some form or fashion. I truly hope that's not the case as I genuinely think you're smarter than that (it happens to the smartest scientists in love with their theory. See Confirmation Bias). You're simply making huge claims with ambiguous science and extremely ambiguous descriptions of HOW THE THEORY WORKS.

Correlation does not equal causation. Just because Prion diseases may be associated with or share features with other diseases of civilization it doesn't mean Protein misfolding is causing them. That's what epidemiologists call a logical fallacy. As I've pointed out multiple times, there is no arrow of causation.