Scottish Independence Good or Bad?

Scottish Independence

Scottish independence is "more likely than it has ever been", according to the new leader of the Scottish National Party (SNP) Alex Salmond.

So would Independence be good for Scotland? Britain?

Would it collapse Britain or would England, Wales and Northern Ireland be
better off without Scotland?

Opinions Please

EDIT:

I thought links to each of the Countries National Party would be useful:

SNP - Scotland

English Democrats - England

Plaid Cymru - Wales




[edit on 5-9-2004 by UK Wizard]

[edit on 5-9-2004 by UK Wizard]

It would be bad for the entire UK.

We're a Union. We work together in partnership so the sum of our four nations are better than the alternative.


The English seem to think they're the only people who did any work in this Union and that is a very naieve assessment.

In the times of the Industrial Revolution it was Scotland firmly in the driving seat, with a huge range of natural resources to mine, towns would spring up overnight. A massive exodus from farms into the cities made the population swell into millions. We were the industrial centre for shipbuilding, coal, steel, peat, gas, oil. You name it and we did it. With an independent Scotland you'd be deprived of north sea oil and gas fields and other natural resources that lay in our land.


Yes we could make it alone, but we work better as a team.

As you said Nerdling, 'We're a Union' each country needs each other, no matter how much we argue
The idea's behind Scotland and Wales getting their own mini-Government was honourable at the time, but there is simply no need. England gets along fine without one.

[edit on 5-9-2004 by UK Wizard]

We need eachother too much, Scotland is a strong part on the Union and without them, it would prove bad in the long run. Same with Wales and Northen Ireland, we need them to rebuild the glory years

I'm with nerdling....though as Lancastrian, I'd probably argue that we started the whole Industrial Revolution with our spinning jennys and our water frames! I'll concede though that Scotland always did turn out far more than it's fair share of great engineers, architects, and inventors and the like, and came to dominate many of these industries.

Yup, we work better as a team, and a break-up would have massive implications, both practically and in terms of public opinion. It could easily become another NI-like situation.

Originally posted by muppet
It could easily become another NI-like situation.

Thats a worrying thought

Unity is the way forward for Britain

Division is the way back

Originally posted by infinite
We need eachother too much, Scotland is a strong part on the Union and without them, it would prove bad in the long run. Same with Wales and Northen Ireland, we need them to rebuild the glory years

That is a key Point Infinate IMHO. Could Scotland stand on its own? Quebec every decade or so gets all worked up and tries to leave Canada, but they would not be really viable as a stand alone country. Very few of the states here could pull it off. California and Texas for sure. Alaska has the oil to buy what they need. None other that I can think of after that

Doesn't the U.K. have a federal system of sorts? As in, doesn't England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland (and even the Isle of Man, I think?) all have their own autonomous governments, while working together as the U.K. at the same time?


Well, as an outsider looking in from the U.S., I hope the U.K. stays together, but since I'm not British, I'm obviously not part of the decision (which is the way it should be, of course). Hopefully Scotland will iron out its differences with the rest of the U.K...

Originally posted by infinite
We need eachother too much, Scotland is a strong part on the Union and without them, it would prove bad in the long run. Same with Wales and Northen Ireland, we need them to rebuild the glory years

Very true, but there's no reason that Scotland should not have Independance. The same goes for Wales and N.I. Just because they are separate entities doesn't preclude them being part of the UK (but not controlled by Whitehall).

Personally I despite centralisation - its just another step towards One World Government.

Originally posted by Pisky
Personally I despite centralisation - its just another step towards One World Government.

Centralization is an extreme, but so is Balkanization. Both are on seperate ends of a spectrum; the best option lies somewhere in the middle.

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
Doesn't the U.K. have a federal system of sorts? As in, doesn't England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland (and even the Isle of Man, I think?) all have their own autonomous governments, while working together as the U.K. at the same time?

Not really. Scotland, Wales and (when the politicians can behave themselves) Northern Ireland have their own "regional assemblies" of sorts.. but they're not really autonomous governments. More like sub-committees really which have some autonomy to deal with local issues, but not much... to be honest they are a new idea, having only been around for a couple of years or so...

The cynic in me thinks they are a backhanded attempt to divide the UK to make it more easy to assimilate into the EU piece by piece, but that's another story entirely!!. England doesn't have one, and it's not missed. (though we do make up 83% of the UK anyway so maybe that's not surprising)

All UK MPs sit in the same Parliament at Westminster, and to all intents and purposes act as a single country.

EDIT : the Isle of Man is a bit different. It's not part of the UK, but falls into the category of "Crown Dependent Territories". They are pretty much autonomous.

Well, as an outsider looking in from the U.S., I hope the U.K. stays together, but since I'm not British, I'm obviously not part of the decision (which is the way it should be, of course). Hopefully Scotland will iron out its differences with the rest of the U.K...

Me too. thankfully it looks like most in the UK feel the same way!



[edit on 5/9/04 by muppet]

Perfectly correct, Thundercloud. That's why I said that just because they are separate entities doesn't preclude them being part of the UK.

Question...

In the age of the European Union, what would the difference be if Scotland was independent or part of the U.K. ?

When I see France and Germany vying for supremacy of the E.U., I wonder if those countries see the E.U. more as a singular Empire dominated by one region rather than the United States of Europe. I'd be even MORE concerned about national soverignty right now.

As for Scotland, being and American with a profound love of Scotland,
I think they have it as good as they can get now. With an independent country comes all sort of problems they just don't need.

[edit on 9/8/2004 by soulforge]

Originally posted by soulforge
When I see France and Germany vying for supremacy of the E.U.

UK, France and Germany are the main supreme countries in the EU. If any of these countries reject the constitution, it doesnt go ahead. All the other chances go by what the main three say

[EDIT]

EU not UK

[edit on 8-9-2004 by infinite]

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by soulforge
When I see France and Germany vying for supremacy of the E.U.

UK, France and Germany are the main supreme countries in the UK. If any of these countries reject the constitution, it doesnt go ahead. All the other chances go by what the main three say

(you put UK instead of EU: see bold inside quote)

that one of the main reason why i hate the EU, too much power to so few countries

see link for details Alternative European Alliances

Originally posted by UK Wizard
that one of the main reason why i hate the EU, too much power to so few countries

see link for details Alternative European Alliances

Why else do you think Tony wants the UK to Join up to the United States Of Europe, for the power we will have over the smaller countries

Originally posted by infinite
Why else do you think Tony wants the UK to Join up to the United States Of Europe, for the power we will have over the smaller countries

I hate Blair and his nasty little politically correct ideals
I'd be happy if there was just Tory's and Lib Dems arguing with each other
(i still don't like the Lib Dems though)
The Labour Party is a joke, they don't know what they stand for as long as the opposistion party's don't like it.

My dads scottish. I wasnt aware they still wanted independence, i thought great britain (Or UK if you include nth ireland) was perfectly happy with their current arrangement.... keep it as is (except for blair, he can be his own country.)

Originally posted by FredT
Could Scotland stand on its own? Quebec every decade or so gets all worked up and tries to leave Canada, but they would not be really viable as a stand alone country. Very few of the states here could pull it off. California and Texas for sure. Alaska has the oil to buy what they need. None other that I can think of after that

But Quebec is a province of Canada. Scotland is a stand alone country which is united within the Kingdom. Sure they are very dependent on Britain through decades of amalgamation, but Scotland is a country not a state. I believe that Scotland could prosper independently of Britain given time, but don't see any immediate benefit in doing so. Perhaps they should concentrate on patching the reliance on Britian before pursuing outright independence. The biggest dependence I see is the consolidation of military forces which Britain obviously supplies the bulk of. That said, Scotland has an extremely experienced and professional force with a deep history.

I am a UK citizen through descent (Father is Scottish), born in Australia.

I think that the UK is a Union very much worth preserving. Far too many English people are dismissive on this issue, saying "let them go, we'd be better off without them". As earlier pointed out by Nerdling and Muppet, neither party would be better off.

One could argue that if the Scottish people vote for devolution, then it should happen. This is fair enough - after all, we are a democracy. The problem here lies with the fact that the case for devolution is being pushed by parties that resemble pressure groups, pushing an almost one policy agenda. They will play on peoples nationalistic side, creating division, and corralling people into voting for independance, just as our government is trying to corral us into taking the European currency.