Senators Demand the Military Lock Up American Citizens in a “Battlefield” They Define as Being R

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by LightsideAssassin

 

Just a quick thought.

When are YOU going to get that the US government doesn't give a # if it legally applies to the american people? they don't care about legality..THEY CARE ABOUT CONTROL. and, you know what? they WILL SHOOT. So, my question is valid. also..try decaf

Edit: if anyone, at this point, still doubts how far congress is willing to go to shut the american people down, read about ANOTHER provision of NDAA that was narrowly defeated because of Sen. Rand Paul that would have allowed americans to be held indefinitely, EVEN AFTER BEING FOUND INNOCENT AFTER A TRIAL.

It seems from this that you believe both:

1.) The government will do what it wants whether the law is valid, or even if the law is there.

2.) Congress is trying to pass laws to hurt Americans, and that's bad.

If you believe that the law doesn't matter, then why do you care if Congress is passing laws?

I didn't say I believed the law doesn't matter. I said CONGRESS doesn't care. Of course I care..that's the whole point of this. They don't care because they are lawless traitors. I care because, if this passes, they'll be coming for anyone who dissents..and I dissent

reply to post by LightsideAssassin

Dear LightsideAssassin,

Forgive me, I didn't write anywhere nearly as clearly as I should have. I know you strongly care about this issue, and I didn't mean to imply that you didn't. Again, my apologies.

I suppose I was just reacting to the impression I get from certain posters who seem to believe that the government will do what it wants to, whether there is a law allowing it or not. I think they believe that our laws no longer matter.

I put you into that camp without thinking enough about it apparently. But I think you can see that if someone believes the laws don't limit or control government, then passing them is just a meaningless show.

With respect,
Charles1952

some seem to not know what 1031 1032 does, it makes this

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

easier to use against you if your protesting, keeping and defending your 1st and 2nd and 5th rights, or saying anything bad against the US GOV or its alphabet soup organizations TSA DHS FBI DoD DOJ FEMA CIA as seen here

by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force

by force could be interpreted as blocking an entrance way with you body or this "put down" could be "I do not like what the TSA officer did i will sue..." yelling this in an airport could have you listed as Hostile. thus giving up your rights as a US citizen now are you seeing who this could go? if not ,w ell the next time your at the air port and TSA says "DO"... you better "DO as your told" as in you Do need a full body search, now strip. a simple version is here www.law.cornell.edu... from the link

§ 2383. Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

add this in with 1031 and 1032 and it will read like this my version keep this in mind
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof on US soil or Against US force's or it allies anywhere, or commits the following: in aid of or comfort too hostile or the Belligerent shall, by the above listed acts, Give up US citizenship and will be held until time of trial, or until the US and its Allies say the hostility's(war) has ended.
Now how clear is that?

^^^

that's scary clear right there. i have to say i'm very uncomfortable with how some people look at this as no big deal or "it wont happen to US citizens" well it can and more than likely will happen to a lot of citizens.

This is a nightmare come true. I have an infowars.com bumper sticker on my car and have noticed strange behavior from the local police. I passed three cops in a row consecutively driving in a line late after work one night. One followed me for a few seconds then abruptly turned. This reminds me of traveling in a pack behavior. Nobody in my town including me would ever be a threat to any officer of the law. We all hold great respect for them and honor them for protecting us.

They are tricking our good police into becoming monsters. I hope this was just coincidence and has nothing do to with the passage of this bill though my gut tells me otherwise. I may disappear or be beaten or killed I hope our country is not coming to this but it is real enough that they have cops scared of certain demographics. Simply supporting the truth is viewed as a threat now.

Even my own kin an Iraq war veteran has forgotten his oath and violates constitutional rights daily.

The Constitution no longer applies we now have no rights. America was great while it lasted now all that remains are the patriots which have been turned into institutionalized zombies. The few that are left are alone like a mouse in a field surrounded by vultures.

I hope this is not true but I fear freedom is lost and the people have been turned into Constitution hating fear-mongers who think terrorists are in their own back yard.

Get ready to give up your guns and any other "rights" you think you have. Bow down to the government or they may blackbag you. I am taking the bumper sticker off. Nobody will help me if they decided to do something other than intimidate then id be as good as dead.

When i started to read this thread i thought "yeah, just another law passed" just the patriot act, the TSA etc etc etc.
But then, i sat and started to think of the tremendous scope of the issue, not only for Americans but for the world and we that inhabit the planet alongside of you.

Since 9/11 the government of the U.S.A ( or certain fractions within that government under pressure from outside interests) has implemented security measures so absured, so orwellian, so draconian and all in the name of your well being, your national security and not to forget to protect the freedom and liberties that apparantly Al-Qaeda and the Taliban hated so much according to George Bush Jnr.

The scope and reach of these laws (martial laws) are so immense, so far reaching, so onmipotent that your constitution, the very angular stone on which the laws, rights and freedom of America are based, now has no meaning and no place in America, except in its history books, where one day your children and grand children will look back in awe at what you are now giving away freely, not losing, giving away, without a struggle.

These laws,which are exactly the same laws that the USA has condemned in the rest of the world, arrest without warrant, without due cause, without having to explain why and to be detained indefinately without trial.
Now a person can ring the police, say your a terrorist, and they can arrest you without evidence, detain you indefinately and that person never has to be named as the informant because of the law of secret charges under the patriot act.

Im sure that somewhere, Joseph Stalin is smiling and thinking..."and you Americans were SO critical of me and my gulags and the KGB".

America has become everything it has fought against and hated since its conception.

The new laws now give the military industrial complex the power to wage war without consent of congress, and without the need for a reason to go to war, other than that of profit for a few, thus condeming your sons to a death not to a death worthy of a hero, defending his homeland, his family and the values that would make his death WORTH something.
His death will serve only to fill the coffers of the great business that profit from his blod shed and the thousands of young lives tragically and needlessly lost to his right and to his left, sent to their deaths by a US foreign policy fuelled by profit.

It has become,or is becoming, a military dictatorship, like nazi Germany or Chile or communist Russia in the 40's and 50's where people will be taken away at night, never to be seen again,their families told they are enemies of the state.

Now, just like the all seeing, far reaching "eye of Sauron", in the Lord of The Rings, America has the all seeing far reaching eye the patriot act and this new law which gives the American military the right to arrest ANYONE, ANYWHERE at ANYTIME, be they a US national or free citizen of a sovereign nation, thus threating the free world with US domination, the sword and the flame.

The USA is now a dictatorship,where the miltary regime govern under the cover of the pariot act and homeland security.
Gone are your freedoms and your liberties.
Gone are your constitution and your amendments.
The military industrial complex forces laws through with or without the blessing of congress by paying its senators to close their eyes, forget their principles and vote in favor of agression.
More and more are the laws which need no presidencial ye or ney.

Only Americans can save America.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Does not the above give every American the right to change his world, and in the same motion change the fate of the world we all share and all love, because if Americans stay seated and accept what is happening to their once great nation, not only is your future is black indeed, but that of the world, as the black hand of the military industrial complex casts its shadow over every land that does'nt support its tyranny, and all in the name of protecting freedom.

Originally posted by ShaolinTemple
I have an infowars.com bumper sticker on my car and have noticed strange behavior from the local police.

Years ago, I was pulled over for running a stop sign. I don't remember running the stop sign. I had a bumper sticker, "I Love Mother", with The Earth in the "o" of mother. The cop made some remark about me loving my mother as he handed me my warning. That sticker, and all the Grateful Dead stickers I'd collected, "accidentally" came off while my dad was cleaning my car. I got him back with a strategically placed Dead sticker that he didn't notice for months.

My dad was all about keeping up appearances. He was a Mason. He told me that if I at least didn't look like I was conforming, those in control would make life difficult for me. Someone is scaring the sheeple.

I did manage to get out of a ticket once for speeding in an unmarked school zone on the highway. The cop said he should get his shears out of the trunk to cut off my long hair. I showed him my seminary ID. He changed his tune real quick and let me go. Someone is scaring the sheeple.

What was I doing at seminary? Tis a long otello.

Treating you with respect requires that I act as though you believe what you posted. Since you believe so strongly, I will ask you a question instead of the dozens of others who have posted similar sentiments. First, though I'd like to recall some lines from your post.

Originally posted by andy1972

The scope and reach of these laws (martial laws) are so immense, so far reaching, so onmipotent that your constitution . . . now has no meaning and no place in America, . . .

These laws,which are exactly the same laws that the USA has condemned in the rest of the world, arrest without warrant, without due cause, without having to explain why and to be detained indefinately without trial.
Now a person can ring the police, say your a terrorist, and they can arrest you without evidence, detain you indefinately and that person never has to be named as the informant because of the law of secret charges under the patriot act.

It has become,or is becoming, a military dictatorship, . . .where people will be taken away at night, never to be seen again,their families told they are enemies of the state.

. . .this new law which gives the American military the right to arrest ANYONE, ANYWHERE at ANYTIME,. . .

The USA is now a dictatorship,where the miltary regime govern . . . .
Gone are your freedoms and your liberties.
Gone are your constitution and your amendments.

I assume you believe all those things, and I'm willing to accept that dozens of other ATSers believe them as well. My question to you is WHY? Why do you believe these things?

I am 100% morally certain that you did not reach these conclusions from a scholarly, well-informed, trained, analysis of the law. There is no room for argument on this point.

So then, why do you believe as you do? Were you persuaded by other ATSers? Was it the source documents in the OPs? Do you believe that the US is being taken over, and this happens to look like the most likely way to do it?

Believe me, I am not attacking. Besides, your view seems to be in the majority. I am really curious about the process you went through to arrive at the conclusions above. Please respond.

reply to post by andy1972

Well i couldn`t have put it better.
What a great post !

I can`t believe the American people aren`t converging on Washington right now.
Instead of the few, who are in the Occupy movement.
Everyone should be joining them in the fight to get back their Country.

And while we in the UK get no coverage of this at all.
We should be worried along with the rest of the world because there`s certainly a Cabal who are pulling the strings and no-one is safe.

We all need to let our governments know that we wont put up with this false war on terror which started in the US and has now spread throughout the Western world, taking away our freedom and rights.

But the American people must lead the way and occupy every government building to let them know that we, The People aren`t going to take any more.

I listened to Fox News this morning and Peter King (didn't ``watch`` Fox, was doing something else) was talking about how congress needed to expand the definition of ``terrorism`` in the US to include theft and other crimes.

He also told the epic lie that terrorism in the US had gone up 70% in the last few years so this legislation needed passing...

reply to post by Vitchilo
yes it has just ask the TSA , how many have they had to take off flights for or had to detain passengers for, playing Video games , taking too long in the bathroom, or fake guns that do nothing more than look shiny, or 5 year old's that need a good pat down, granny's that need full strip search, add in DHS for people taking pictures, asking the wrong question ,or peeking around a corner or the traveler that does not feel safe and tries to take a side arm on the plane, in check in baggage. the toy left at the curb , the box sitting at the door step empty , the left behind bag full of books and home work, oh the attacks just come and come what to do? see something shoot to kill? The USA is a Battlefield now anything can go. I haven't even gotten to the TSA DHS road side check points.

From 2009... soon to be used in the US.

Originally posted by Pervius
To silence those voices and attempt to keep the US Federal Government in existence.......they'll have to resort to Fascism x1000.

The Nation exists because of Titles of Land. Citizens rights to own land. They've been robbed. Very Very few hold titles to Land now....eventually the fine thread will snap and everyone will demand their Rights back.

They lost their Right to be a Human because of the prior Generation giving themselves lavish Retirements. +70 million Baby Boomers all getting Federal Retirements, Military Retirements, Social Security, Medicare.......


Somebody's gotta lose to fund all that.

Obama can "try" to do things to shift this around. The IQ of the nation dropped under Boomer president (Dubya) about 30 points. And during bad times now it has dropped about 40 points under Mabus (Obama). Cannibalism the cutting of pensions and social security. But we can afford wars. Still feeling warm and nice?

Moral corrupt luciferians in office now and we are worried about debates like Mit Romney being a mormon, c'Mon. The world was not designed for us smart thinkers, who can sniff out the BS. We're strugglers in a world of degenerate robbers. America needs a new continental army — A new battle for bunker hill painting.

The Marsupial government needs to stop cesspooling on Spaceborg (predominately in a coma), reestablish its existence (and not get processed out). Drug dealers, hounding for dope and a tank of gas, people in government getting high and snicker deals that will kill most of us humans.

Like to knock them all down that impenetrable corrupt circle, with a large swinging solid iron ball — During when distributing (pitiful rubles) handout checks at Mass.

Maddow slamming Obama for S.1867 :


And if you watched The Daily Show, EVEN John Stewart slammed Obama for this unconstitutional fascist crap.

When EVEN Obama shills turn against him for this, you know it's real and it's REAL BAD.

This is exactly why we have a 2nd Amendment guaranteeing the "right to bear arms."

That amendment was to allow Americans to protect themselves from their own government, not from criminals or outside invaders.

To quote Thomas Jefferson:

"all Men are...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...
to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted...
whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends,
it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it"

King Obama? Hell no! Have the American people fallen this much? I being a defender of this country can't believe I'm doing this for people who would give up they're freedom for security! It's a shame most people would rather watch stupid programming on ABC, CBS, NBC rather than pay attention to what's really going on! Sucks to know they will find out when they are in a detention camp ran by KBR.

Rand Paul knocks it out of the park.

apologies if this has been posted, but here's carl levin saying it was the obama admin who had the language struck that would have excluded american citizens from this bill. the original bill, according to him, did so:
sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com...

“The language which precluded the application of Section 1031 to American citizens was in the bill that we originally approved…and the administration asked us to remove the language which says that U.S. citizens and lawful residents would not be subject to this section,” said Levin, Chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

So this ain't the republicans ALONE doing this, it was coming directly from OBAMA...

Anyone still out there supporting this POS Obama?

House and Senate agree on sweeping defense bill

Congress is pressing ahead with a massive $662 billion defense bill that requires military custody for terrorism suspects linked to al-Qaida, including those captured within the U.S. Lawmakers hope their last-minute revisions will satisfy President Barack Obama and erase a veto threat.

The lawmakers said they hoped the House and Senate could vote on the final bill by Thursday and send it to the president.

The legislation would deny suspected terrorists, even U.S. citizens seized within the nation's borders, the right to trial and subject them to indefinite detention. The lawmakers made no changes to that language.

Clear as day, admitted that it's clearly indefinite detention of US citizens if they are called ``terrorists``... and the definition of ``terrorist`` is everyone basically. Protester? Terrorist. Hold more than 7 days of food? Terrorist. Etc...