Is Civil Unrest the New Norm?

With all the anger and frustration demonstrated by OWS and other groups around the world, it’s obvious to everyone that times are changing. People are beginning to awaken to the fact that we’ve allowed a select FEW to gain far too much control in this world. People are starting to realize that, if left unchallenged, we will truly be oppressed in the near future. We are quickly running out of time. We will soon reach a point of no return….a breaking point.

Some will call me ignorant or naïve but I still hold out hope that here in America our democratic republic still works. 2012 is going to be the year that we find out if that’s true.

You see, between now and the end of 2012, several hundred national and provincial elections are scheduled around the world– from this past weekend’s parliamentary elections in Spain to presidential elections in Russia, France, the United States, Mexico, Finland, Iceland, India, Switzerland, South Korea, Yemen, Egypt, and more.

Consequently, people have an outlet to invest their anger and hostility. Emotions are running high, but people at least have a shred of hope that if ‘their guy’ gets elected, everything will get better.

I hope that I am right and the will of the people can be channeled in a productive way. I hope everyone will get out and vote next year and we see a complete turnover in the white house and congress – a fresh start with new, honest representatives! Many of you don’t share my optimism that voting still works.

It won’t work. And, next year once the election-cycle has disappeared, there will be no more peaceful outlet for all of the anger that has been building up. That’s when emotions will spill into the streets. And it won’t be peaceful protests being met with violence… it will be violent riots being met with even worse violence.

Politicians are cunning. They can see the writing on the wall, they know that social unrest is a foregone conclusion, and they’re preparing to defend the status quo at all costs. As such, it’s no wonder why we’ve been seeing a militarization of police forces and more violent tactics to quell any measure of dissent. And we’re only going to see more. This is the real ‘new normal.’ The state is taking steps to protect its interests. What about you?

Sovereign Man

Is there still a chance we can vote out the crooks and undo the mess we’ve allowed our countries to get into? Do we all even agree who the crooks are? In America, are there any people we can trust to represent our interests in DC who won’t be bought? If the election comes and goes without big change, and people’s hopes fade, what will our country look like?

reply to post by seabag

Civil Unrest isn't the new norm, it's a NOW kind of thing.
As soon as things take a turn for the better.
We will be ok again.
IMO, it's going to take more than voting out the crooks.
The whole system is a sham.
We need a completely new approach.

reply to post by GmoS719


So what happens when the elections come and go and nothing changes?

Does the anger and frustration people have now just die? I can’t see that happening. I think things could get a lot uglier.

Until the economy improves, yes.

Then the new norm will be to occupy jobs, buy things and live the American dream, again.

May take several years to get there, so prepare to weather the storms of unrest between now and then.

History shows real change is possible; governments all over the world have long responded to things like this and changed proactively to remove injustice, etc.

However, history also shows many cases (perhaps many more cases) in which governments and societies have failed to address the problem. I believe both the European and the American elites are woefully out of touch with their peoples (in slightly different ways). American leadership strikes me as complacent and self-interested. Which is understandable because the corrupted system rewards extreme self-interest and punishes altruism in politicians and business leaders alike.

I think the real issues are not being addressed. Until they are, the anger that fuels populist upsurges (whether from the left, the right, or non-ideological expressions of generalized frustratuion) is not going away. The longer TPTB wait to implement REAL, sweeping reform, the more violent and chaotic things well get, and the more the system will be at risk of serious disruption.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by GmoS719

 

So what happens when the elections come and go and nothing changes?

Does the anger and frustration people have now just die? I can’t see that happening. I think things could get a lot uglier.

I don't think Americans are going to give up until things are right. Things might get ugly, but sometimes it's necessary. Things will be a lot uglier in the long run if nothing changes.

reply to post by GmoS719


During the civil unrest America experienced in the 60’s, the catalyst was civil rights and the Vietnam War. Once progress was made in civil rights and the war ended, so did the protests.

In our current situation, the catalyst is wide spread corruption throughout our entire political system (and our financial institutions). This is not something we can fix quickly, and the damage done to our economy over the past decade will surely take a long time to repair.

People struggling now will be struggling for a while, regardless who is in control. Their reason for anger will not go away as quickly as it did for those protesting in the 60’s. So, that means we will be in for a long, bumpy ride. I’m just wondering what everyone's opinion is about how much worse it will get before it gets better.

reply to post by seabag

I think this will be the ugliest protest in US history. So there is not telling how ugly it is going to get.

S+F This is the kind of dialogue that americans and, honestly, citizens of the world need to be having with eachother. It's my firm belief that nothing will change and things will only get progressively worse if we let ourselves believe that voting new people into office will change anything. Our freedom is a fallacy and we have become brainwashed slaves to a system we thought was in our best interest.

Nothing will change until we demand that policies change and there a few things we can do immediately before the next election that will begin to bring honesty back into our government. Repeal Citizens United alone would go a long way but we need to balance the other side and introduce campaign contribution caps from all any source. Ending the fed. Cutting any and all ties between tax payer money and Banks/Corporations. If you as billion dollar entity fail, then you fail. As these "Bigs" constantly love to shove in our faces personal responsibility and not wanting support the dregs of society with their hard earned dollars, we need to say we don't wish to support you either with Bailouts with our tax dollars. Ranting sorry. Term Limits.

This will take work and it will take protests. Most Americans don't understand our political system, I know it sounds harsh but it's true. All they know is that their belts are getting tighter and tighter. Our politicians speak in our dual idealogy with honey tongues on why this group is destroying our economy or why we need to preserve this and never placing the blame on themselves or their pimps.

Civil unrest is the new norm. And will become more so.

Why?

Because governmental and corporate corruption is our current reality.

How else should people react?

Look at Egypt. See the future.

Human nature... apparently it trumps everything.

I feel we the people need to push for change in congress. and the senate.

First and foremost there need to be term limits on these houses my personal belief is 12 years is long enough to hold a seat anything more than that is a guarrantee that the people elected to represent us are corrupted. They are already to the point where all they care about is being re elected.


Secound I want to see full disclosure on who and who much has been donated as a campain contribution.

Three I iwould like to see caps on how much any single person or entity can donate to a campain.

Four repeal the law granting corperations the same rights as people.

Five Politicians should not be allowed to become lobbyists after there term.

Six Once someone takes office there finances should be put into blind trusts so they can not proffit on the bills they pass. Insider tradeing.

Seven once someone takes office that is there job, Taking on paid speaking engagements or any outside manner of making money. There job is to serve us doing anything else is just like takeing on a secound job.

Eight Anyone that is going to run for office should have to take some sort of competency test that at the very least shows they know what is in the constitution.

The one thing politicians are afraid of is change especialy change that effects them. If people pushed for these changes I gaurantee you they would get to work on the real issues at hand just to apease the masses.

I have a thread here for those who wish to talk about the proplems we face and try to find some solutions that can be presented to OWS in hopes of creating a clear set of demands to our Govt.
OWS ideas

reply to post by Kali74


Kali, I never thought I would say this but…..I agree with a lot of what you said. I’ll break it down this way:

Repeal Citizens United alone would go a long way but we need to balance the other side and introduce campaign contribution caps from all any sources.

I absolutely agree we must introduce SERIOUS campaign finance reform; that should be first on the list of things to do. I want corporate money out of DC immediately. However, I disagree about repealing Citizens United and I’ll tell you why. It is the only way conservative ideas can compete with the big money democrat machine (and other political distractions). Citizens United doesn’t fund campaigns, they merely put out info (or you might call it propaganda) but it’s no different than what Michael Moore or the MSM does daily. There is no outrage around here about what they do! Until we get serious campaign finance reform and limit the amount both sides can receive and spend on campaigning, Citizens United must be allowed to do what it does. I don’t mind if it’s overturned, but only AFTER the system is cleaned up through real reform. Even then, it will be a tough fight because of the first amendment…but…we’ll see!


I’m a little confused when you said:

It's my firm belief that nothing will change and things will only get progressively worse if we let ourselves believe that voting new people into office will change anything. Our freedom is a fallacy and we have become brainwashed slaves to a system we thought was in our best interest.

Then you said

Nothing will change until we demand that policies change and there a few things we can do immediately before the next election that will begin to bring honesty back into our government.

First you said voting people into office won’t change anything, then you say nothing will change until we demand that policies change. Uhm…..only congress can change law, so we have to cast our votes and send the right people to DC to MAKE these policy changes, do we not? Protesting and complaining won't change the law. It hasn't worked yet!

Ending the fed. Cutting any and all ties between tax payer money and Banks/Corporations. If you as billion dollar entity fail, then you fail. As these "Bigs" constantly love to shove in our faces personal responsibility and not wanting support the dregs of society with their hard earned dollars, we need to say we don't wish to support you either with Bailouts with our tax dollars. Ranting sorry. Term Limits.

Absolutely!!!
End the fed – YES
Too Big To Fail – BS…let’em fail. Happens all the time to the little guys!

This will take work and it will take protests. Most Americans don't understand our political system, I know it sounds harsh but it's true. All they know is that their belts are getting tighter and tighter. Our politicians speak in our dual idealogy with honey tongues on why this group is destroying our economy or why we need to preserve this and never placing the blame on themselves or their pimps.

All protests do is raise awareness to the issues important to the protesters. You must send people to DC to do your actual bidding. Those crooks aren’t going to have a change of heart just because OWS is making noise. On the flip side, when you vote someone else in and those crooks lose their damn jobs they won’t be able to ply their evil trade! We’ve got to vote them out!

What say you, Kali?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I feel we the people need to push for change in congress. and the senate.

First and foremost there need to be term limits on these houses my personal belief is 12 years is long enough to hold a seat anything more than that is a guarrantee that the people elected to represent us are corrupted. They are already to the point where all they care about is being re elected.

edit on 24-11-2011 by Grimpachi because: spelling

Secound I want to see full disclosure on who and who much has been donated as a campain contribution.

Three I iwould like to see caps on how much any single person or entity can donate to a campain.

Four repeal the law granting corperations the same rights as people.

Five Politicians should not be allowed to become lobbyists after there term.

Six Once someone takes office there finances should be put into blind trusts so they can not proffit on the bills they pass. Insider tradeing.

Seven once someone takes office that is there job, Taking on paid speaking engagements or any outside manner of making money. There job is to serve us doing anything else is just like takeing on a secound job.

Eight Anyone that is going to run for office should have to take some sort of competency test that at the very least shows they know what is in the constitution.

edit on 24-11-2011 by Grimpachi because: had more to say

Grimpachi, when are you running for office???

I like your platform so far. You have my vote as of now!!

Excellent ideas!

reply to post by seabag


Let me clarify. The policies won't change regardless if vote in new people or not. We know that once the coffers start filling a person succumbs. We the people need to demand policy changes now, en masse. That way we know the next batch will be more honest than the last and the next batch will also know that the people are aware and watching and holding them accountable. That makes us responsible, we can't let ourselves be distracted ever again. Yes enjoy life, enjoy our toys but not to the point they become our pacifiers. That third TV is only going to keep you warm if you burn it.

The media is no longer liberal, it's corporate and it's candy. Media now does little to let us know anything beyond whether Justin Bieber fathered a child or not.

reply to post by Kali74


OK, I got you!

Hey, you might be right!

I will remain optimistic though and carry on with my work to get the right people in (people I consider RIGHT)! You guys can do your part by continuing to pressure them with OWS.

Maybe if we both work hard we’ll get the things we discussed and get on track (fingers crossed)

As far as the media…..well….that depends which lens you are looking through. In 2008, Obama got a completely free ride. Nobody pointed out his complete lack of experience, his ties to radical terrorists Bill Ayer and Bernadine Dohrn, his ties to ACORN and the implications of that, his lack of college transcripts (you know that NOT ONE person has ever come forward and said Barry was my professor), his 20 year relationship with Rev Write and Black liberation theology, etc, etc.

Boy, the MSM is sure going after Herman Cain for a few accusations though. They sure want to talk about Newt’s infidelity. They sure want to limit Ron Paul’s air time! There’s no doubt in my mind who they’re pulling for. The MSM carries the water for the democrats. I think that is as obvious as the fact that FOX News swings right.

I will agree that they are both controlled by corporate interests and none of them serve the agenda that you and I seek with regard to breaking up this corruption.

Great thread S&F.

I think one of the reasons that people feel such anger lies in the fact that they feel a sense of political impotence. It seems like no matter who you vote for, or who gets elected nothing ever changes. Funny how they all run on change, because they know it sucks, then when they get in there it's they do the exact same thing that they said they were going to change.

The basic constitutional republic framework of our government is sound, a framework designed to be self regulating through the general election of representatives, unfortunately the system has been hijacked. The power that the people have in elections has been usurped by the stranglehold that the two-party system has on our government. There's the incredible levels of corruption, and the gerrymandering of districts, creating an artificial stalemate in which nothing seems to get done. Some would say good, that's the way the system is designed to function, it's good that nothing gets done, unfortunately things do still get done, and the kinds of things that are getting done attest to the feelings that most of us in this country have towards our elected officials.

Will civil unrest be the new norm? I think we're at a major turning point where we'll see how this all plays out.

With the shape that our economy is in if our government introduces austerity measures (which they won't call it that if they do) it could get really ugly.

reply to post by jlv70


Star!

We are more agreeable when I don’t mention George Soros' connection to OWS!

I think one of the reasons that people feel such anger lies in the fact that they feel a sense of political impotence. It seems like no matter who you vote for, or who gets elected nothing ever changes. Funny how they all run on change, because they know it sucks, then when they get in there it's they do the exact same thing that they said they were going to change.

100% agreed! Believe me, the sense of political impotence is felt on both sides of the isle. George Bush was a complete disgrace for Republicans…just more of the same! I don’t consider myself a republican though. I am a conservative….bordering on Libertarian-Lite.

The basic constitutional republic framework of our government is sound, a framework designed to be self regulating through the general election of representatives, unfortunately the system has been hijacked. The power that the people have in elections has been usurped by the stranglehold that the two-party system has on our government. There's the incredible levels of corruption, and the gerrymandering of districts, creating an artificial stalemate in which nothing seems to get done. Some would say good, that's the way the system is designed to function, it's good that nothing gets done, unfortunately things do still get done, and the kinds of things that are getting done attest to the feelings that most of us in this country have towards our elected officials

I agree with everything except the “two-party system” part. I think its been hijacked by bankers (the FED and the giants) as well as larger corporate interests (GE et al). I’d like to hear your take on why you consider the two-party system to be the problem, and how you believe the two parties have hijacked the system. My take is that there is room for libertarians and maybe a fourth party but if you add more than that you simply flood the system and achieve nothing but gridlock. With 2 parties, one party always has a majority; it’s never exactly even, so someone gets their agenda through, though they have to compromise a bit.

Will civil unrest be the new norm? I think we're at a major turning point where we'll see how this all plays out. With the shape that our economy is in if our government introduces austerity measures (which they won't call it that if they do) it could get really ugly.

Agreed! I think things will get ugly regardless because the decisions being made by the FED coupled with the weakness of our economy and the economic problems in Europe will likely collapse our economy. Regardless who is in charge in 2013, the system will likely be so broken that things will get REALLY bad before they get better. I don’t think we’ve seen anything yet.

Nothing will change until congress is forced to change thenselfves.I don't care which party it is. Theonlything that will get themmoving is a push fro the people to change there houses, the very way they do bissness,