The Presence of Jews in Europe Will End

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

If I was born in 1938 I would have been against Nazism
I was born in this time frame and I am against Zionism. This has nothing to do with "jews". Most of the prominent zionists aren't even Jewish themselves.

That is something everyone of us loves to imagine about ourselves. Unfortunately we can't really, truly say because we are basing our views on what we have been taught in this time frame.

Really, we need to address the roots of the perceived Zionist conspiracies. We have to address whether or not literature such as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is real or not. And that literature is the basis from Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism.

When one ascribes to the Anti-Zionism philosophy, they are indeed Anti-Semitic.

Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti- Semitism in our time, through its systematic delegitimization, defamation, and demonization of Israel. Although not a priori anti-Semitic, the calls to dismantle the Jewish state, whether they come from Muslims, the Left, or the radical Right, increasingly rely on an anti-Semitic stereotypization of classic themes, such as the manipulative "Jewish lobby," the Jewish/Zionist "world conspiracy," and Jewish/Israeli "warmongers." One major driving force of this anti-Zionism/anti-Semitism is the transformation of the Palestinian cause into a "holy war"; another source is anti-Americanism linked with fundamentalist Islamism. In the current context, classic conspiracy theories, such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, are enjoying a spectacular revival. The common denominator of the new anti-Zionism has been the systematic effort to criminalize Israeli and Jewish behavior, so as to place it beyond the pale of civilized and acceptable conduct.

When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews, You are talking anti-Semitism". - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in a speech at Harvard University shortly before his assassination in 1968, from "The Socialism of Fools" The Left, the Jews and Israel by Seymour Martin Lipset; in Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

Anti-Semitism is not dead. Although anti-Semitic incidents have declined and a multi-cultural acceptance has produced wider tolerance in many states including the US, a 2000-year-old virus has mutated, and lives on, often in a disguised form. And the existence and achievements of the Jewish state in an area of relative backwardness stimulate anti-Semitism and furnish a respectable cover. ...Hitler exploited anti-Semitism with deadly consequences for Jews and the world. But racial anti-Semitism has been tabooed after the Holocaust and the Nuremberg trials. Now the existence of the state of Israel permits anti-Semitism to assume a political form, safe from challenge as intolerance or racism. How many times one hears: "I like Jews but I can't stand Zionism," or "I have nothing against Jews, but I don't like Israel." The existence and achievements of Israel offer a visible and irresistible target for dormant anti-Semitic feelings aroused by a focus on Israel's mistakes and misdeeds, which are characteristic of every state including the US. - UN Watch, December 1997

There is no difference whatever between anti-Semitism and the denial of Israel's statehood. Classical anti-Semitism denies the equal right of Jews as citizens within society. Anti-Zionism denies the equal rights of the Jewish people its lawful sovereignty within the community of nations. The common principle in the two cases is discrimination - Abba Eban, New York Times, November 3, 1975

Anti-Zionism is a mask.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Do you not like Anne Frank?

This discussion has nothing to do with Anne frank, but we clearly see what you are implying, we're all holocaust denying Nazi lovers. Get bent that crap doesn't float in this bowl.

Anne Frank, her diary and her life, have nothing to do with this thread. And nothing to do with Zionism as Zionism was in response to the Nazi atrocities.

Only an idiot would deny the holocaust and the atrocities committed. The only thing in debate, reasonably, is the methods and numbers. the numbers are pure fiction and have been changed several times over the years.

This doesn't change the fact that the NAZI party rose to power brainwashing Germans into thinking they were a superior race and they must rule the entire globe and exterminate all those of "lesser blood". They built up a military, created racist anti-jew policies, attacked their neighbors, invaded, took land and settled it with civilians while claiming it to be a defensive measure.

They made pacts and deals with allies who later, they threw under the bus because they weren't of the right blood.

sound familiar? sure, Israel has stopped short of institutionalized mass murder, but that doesn't mean plenty of prominent Israelis and Rabbis aren't calling for it. In fact, you can go view dozens of images from Gaza and parts of Israel where Palestinians are actually allowed to live, and see some of the graffiti your friendly Israeli settlers leave on the door, usually along the lines of "GAS THE ARABS"

Maybe in your world, simply bringing up Anne Frank would work as a smear against us, but that's because you have a warped view of reality.

Of course that is a powerful story, of course it's a horrible event in human history. But it has nothing to do with anything right now and you know it.

Yes, Anne Frank has everything to do with the title of this thread. Anne Frank was a Jewish girl in Europe. She lived in a time when people shouted the very title of this thread. She has everything to do with this discussion. Have you forgotten what the title says? Or does it make you a little uncomfortable when a face is given to the discussion?

If we were talking about Native Americans and the title was "The Native American Presence in the United States Will End", would that be so wrong to do? It should be wrong, as much as the meaning of the title of the thread.

Yes, I think you are uncomfortable with being presented with an innocent person who lived and died simply because she was a Jew in Europe. Are you supportive of the concept of removing Jews from Europe? You don't seem to like the fact they want to go to Israel, as though they don't have a right to go there. So what is your solution to the problem? Is there a Jewish problem? If there is a Jewish problem, then maybe you should wonder how you got to that thought process.

Now what you will say is this..."I didn't mean that!" or "You are misconstruing what I said!" or even "You are so wrong, I can't begin to tell you how wrong you are!" But the problem is, if you agree with the title and then apply it to say you are supporting the Palenstenians, then perhaps you should search your own teachings to determine whether you do believe there is a Jewish problem.

Is there a Jewish problem?

Talk about a biased story.

I'm European, I hold no ill regard towards Jew's. (My ex is Jewish BTW) However, Zionists are a different matter entirely. In fact, many Jew's themselves are against Zionism.

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

Guess those Jew's against Zionists are just anti-Semites huh?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Only a Gentile will claim he's anti-Zionist but not anti-semitic.

And don't give me that crap that a small handful of ultra-orthodox Jews living in Israel are anti-Zionist because if that were true then why are they living in Israel?

Most Gentiles are not aware that Zionism has several meanings and it's political arm is only one facet of what true Zionism is all about, and even then, it's political arm does not only lead to one political group or organisation. In fact, most Gentiles don't even understand exactly what Zionism is at all let alone it's true meaning. Some of us have tried to explain exactly what Zionism truely is on ATS hundreds of times but Gentiles just don't get it or ignore it because it does'nt help their agenda against the Jews and Israel.

We all know the problems of the North African and Middle Eastern Muslims in Europe, more so Holland, Germany, France and the UK; thats nothing new but how dare a Jew speak of it! Right?

reply to post by Frontkjemper


Wrong. There are Jews against certain Zionist organisations but they are not anti-Zionist.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Wow, personally i am not aware of any problems in the UK with Muslims from the Middle East or North Africa. I am aware however with problems with Muslims (British born) of Pakistani descent and that is far more a reaction to social problems and poverty than anything else.

At the same time, i am not aware of any problems with Jews in this country either.

Fundamentalists are the same whatever denomination. We should be allowed to tar and feather them - it would give the rest of us some idea another idiot was coming!

HELLO ALL...

Are any of you going to discuss the issue that's been presented without resorting to commentary on the intellect of someone with whom you may disagree?

From this point on, posts will be deleted, and post bans could be applied if some civility doesn't appear post-haste.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I lived in Bradford for 5 years. For three of those years, myself and my partner were the only white people for around 5 streets in every direction - we were surrounded by Muslims from all over the world but predominantly from Indian subcontinent stock. I never once had issues in that area about anything other than poverty. By the way, this period included the so called race riots in 2000, when i was never targetted or attacked either, despite having to walk through the rioters (with a shaved head at the time) just to get the local shop.

Conflict based on race or religion is just daft IMO.

reply to post by bluemirage5

post removed by staff

I don't care what race or creed my neighbor is, I'll judge them on their actions, not their skin color and racist stereotypes, thank you.

And guess what? I have several families of "Middle Eastern Muslims" living in my building. Great people, talk to one of the fellows almost every day after asking him if it was offensive for me to talk to his wife (I opened the door for her and it seemed to upset her).

Seriously you can't honestly think your statement isn't racist.

anyways, at least your statement is on topic, even if I find it distasteful. I have a huge problem with statements like yours and that of the article in the OP. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying some of the immigrants moving into the UK aren't jerks. Jerks are everywhere on Earth. But it's completely racist to assume all "Africans" or any race or religion, would be a problem just because of their race or religion.

I judge people on their actions, not stereotypes. I see no reason why the presence of Jews in Europe would end because of an influx of any race or religion. There has been a Jewish presence in Europe forever, and if you believe the bible, even before recorded "time". They have endured antisemitism, racism, wars, famine, communism, socialism, death camps..... Yet they continue on, as strong as ever.

I don't see that changing at all. If having "Africans" next door makes you, or them, uneasy, that says more about them than it does the "Africans".

Time will tell I guess.

reply to post by bluemirage5


That's fine and if you didn't like them you should have moved. But to attempt to disparage an entire race of people because of your experience with a few, is indeed racism.

I've had similar problems with Caucasian neighbors, what is your point?

reply to post by WarminIndy

If we were talking about Native Americans and the title was "The Native American Presence in the United States Will End", would that be so wrong to do? It should be wrong, as much as the meaning of the title of the thread.

apples and potatoes. during Anne Franks life, and unfortunate death, Nazism was attempting to eradicate all jews, and many others, from the face of the earth.

This article is talking about an influx of immigration, sorry, I don't see the north Africans setting up death camps.

Kindly stop placing words in my mouth and continue debating the topic, not me.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Do you realize you are no different from members of KKK, no different from Skinheads, and no different
from anyone who supported the Apartheid government in South-Africa, racist, so full of hate and prejudice.

How can any loving, peaceful humans tolerate that ??

Temporarily closed for staff review.

While waiting:
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The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS

We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.

From this point forward:

Please discuss the topic:

The Presence of Jews in Europe Will End

Thread re-opened.

thanx for cleaning up the thread,
i can only hope participants will be a bit more civil.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

If we were talking about Native Americans and the title was "The Native American Presence in the United States Will End", would that be so wrong to do? It should be wrong, as much as the meaning of the title of the thread.

apples and potatoes. during Anne Franks life, and unfortunate death, Nazism was attempting to eradicate all jews, and many others, from the face of the earth.

This article is talking about an influx of immigration, sorry, I don't see the north Africans setting up death camps.

Kindly stop placing words in my mouth and continue debating the topic, not me.

The problem is this, it has become so easy in this day and time to be racist against anyone.Those same African immigrants in Europe that are Muslim are embraced and there is a denial that they could be racist themselves.

The persecution of Coptic Christians goes on unabated by those same North Africans. Yet, those Coptic Christians themselves are North African. Persecution of Coptic Christians

Racism needs to recognized and addressed, but it seems some groups get a free pass.

Egypt's Copts are an endangered minority. Exposed to continuous and subtle pressures, their numbers are dwindling. Thousands have emigrated; no official figures are available as to their numbers in the diaspora today, but reliable sources count two million living in the United States, Canada, Australia, United Kingdom, and other countries of Europe.1 Thousands of those who are left behind convert to Islam every year to escape persecution; for example, between 1988 and 1990, 50,000 Coptic university graduates did so.2 Those who stay faithful to their religion in Egypt find themselves increasingly marginalized and alienated in their own country.

This week 26 Coptic Christians in Egypt were killed for their faith, and new reports have emerged that “Egyptian soldiers drove over protesters with armored vehicles and fired live ammunition into a crowd of unarmed Coptic Christians.” These Christians assembled to peacefully protest the government’s failure to respond to the burning of a church by a Muslim militia.

Why not defend the Copts against persecution?

The reason why is no one really wants to admit that those who are persecuting others are playing continual victim. If we want to talk apples and oranges, let's really take a look at persecution and who is doing the persecuting. You can only say for so long that the Christians are guilty, but what that really means is that people believe only American and European Christians can be guilty.

Like the Muslim Brotherhood, the Salafis want to see Egypt ruled under Islamic law, and some are using violence to bring that about. According to the English-language Egyptian newspaper Al Masry Al Youm, 50,000 Salafis and Muslim Brotherhood supporters held a joint rally in Giza over the weekend at which protesters chanted slogans of unity and support for Islamic law. At the rally, prominent Salafi preacher Safwat Hegazy proclaimed, “The United Arab States and the United Islamic States are inevitably coming. . . . And soon we will have one caliph to rule us all.”

Which caliph should rule us all? They are using violence to bring this about and using Anti-Zionist rhetoric masked over Anti-Semitism to get people on their side to endorse it.

With the only Christian in Pakistan’s government murdered outside his mother’s home, Coptic Christian churches being burnt in Egypt, and Iraq’s Christian population reduced by about half of its 1.4 million total of 25 years ago, the future for many Christians in the Muslim world looks at best uncertain. Dr. Walid Phares wants the Chicago area to be aware of the ongoing persecution and Saturday stressed the unknowns of the political situation in many countries in the region. He is particularly anxious about what type of government might replace any overturned regimes. “Are they really going to be democratic?” Phares asked. “Will they give rights to minorities … will they be better or worse?” Phares was the keynote speaker at “The Persecuted Church: Christian Believers in Peril in the Middle East.”

Are they really going to be democratic? After they kill Jews, Christians, and everyone else, the only ones they have not killed are forcibly converted to Islam (those even of North African descent). Why not address that racism?