Christianity, REDEFINED.

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
This site seems to have been infiltrated by a group of christian commados recently.

this is not a church.

ATS may not be a church, but this sub-forum has been specifically designated the "Religion, Faith, and Theology" forum, designed to be a place for people to "discuss all things spiritual and share your own faith-based experiences", as it says at the top of each thread, including this one.

Why are you such a dog-in-the-manger that you want to discourage the discussion of religion even in the place which has been specifically set aside for the purpose?

reply to post by DISRAELI


its not the discussion of religion I have anything against.

Its more and more people declaring that the holy spirit has suddenly entered them and they feel that they have been chosen in some way to spread the word. this is getting very frequent with on some occasions several threads a day on this. maybe one bumper 'i found the holy spirit' thread would do.

i find many of these people tend to be born again christians. i have come across many of these people in life. they usually all follow the same pattern. they have tough upbringing , followed by criminal activity , followed by 'finding god'.

some people who find god are content in stopping their search there. They are content in sitting in ignorance and are happy to stop asking questions. they accept god. surrender to him. therefore there is no need for anymore questions.

what if they started asking questions again? what then? where would they be brought? do you know?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


its funny you know.

I am fully aware of the fact that there is nothing I can say to you that would make you question your current beliefs. you can only do that yourself. i don't need to leave you my email address and ask you to contact me if you ever find that something isn't right.

i will keep an eye out for your teachings. maybe you can save me.

reply to post by honestyblaze

Preaching in the Son's name, but never in God's... No church is from God.

That is weird.
Jesus is the name of God.
This is how we know God, through Jesus, as he said, he is the way, which means a few things, including how we know who God is.
God is the God of Jesus and Jesus' Father.
Jesus told the chief priests of the temple they did not know God.
Jesus in his own person is the revelation of the character of God, so he, Jesus is the name by which God is known.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Jesus is the name by which God is known.

Perhaps to you my friend, but by what name did Jesus call God?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

but by what name did Jesus call God?

Senior?

reply to post by boony

Point me in the direction of a Christian conspiracy site and I will leave.

Worthy Christian Forums

Here's betting you won't really leave.

reply to post by IAMIAM

by what name did Jesus call God?

God, and Father.
We call God, the God of Jesus, or, the Father of Jesus.
God has a new name and that name is Jesus.
Thomas called Jesus, My Lord and my God.
When you had the exodus, there was a new people of God, which was the original family of Jacob who traveled to Egypt,

And Joseph's bones, which the Israelites had brought up from Egypt, were buried at Shechem in the tract of land that Jacob bought for a hundred pieces of silver from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem. This became the inheritance of Joseph's descendants.

and all the people who came up with them, from Egypt, so there was a recombination of this merging of the two peoples, and with that there was a giving of a new name for God, where there was the name by which the Fathers knew God, which would be Elohim, to a new name, YHWH. Now with Jesus, there was the combining of the Greeks and the Jews to make a new nation of God, the Christians, so there is a giving of a new name for God, which is Jesus.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
God has a new name and that name is Jesus.

This is not what Christ taught my friend.

This is nothing that Christ taught.

He said if you love me, you will love the LEAST of these...

He said if you love me, you will keep my commandments...

He NEVER said if you love me, you will Idolise me.

He said if you have seen me, you have seen the father. This is because he is the life giving spirit within all of us.

To enter the Kingdom of Heaven, one must become like little children. Children are not those who have spent years researching. Children are those who empty their cups and view the world with innocence once more.

God does not need a name or our worship. He gave a Law written on our hearts at birth. Sadly, this cruel world we have created has caused us to forget or not trust that Law.

Time will remind us, and time is short.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by jmdewey60

Now with Jesus, there was the combining of the Greeks and the Jews to make a new nation of God, the Christians, so there is a giving of a new name for God, which is Jesus.

There are lots of verses in 2&3 Isaiah and Jeremiah and Ezekiel which state that YHWH alone is savior. According to Acts, Peter was proclaiming a different name:

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “You rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, 9 if we are examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed, 10 be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, in him does this man stand here before you whole. 11 He is ‘the stone which was regarded as worthless by you, the builders, which has become the head of the corner.’ 12 There is salvation in none other, for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, by which we must be saved!”

It would seem to me, that Yahwists and Jehovahists who continue to proclaim Yahweh or Jehovah as "The Name" are also rejecters of the stone, no matter how vehemently they claim to not reject.

Personally, I find that I don't have any concept of what "saved" may even mean. So I'm only a casual observer of this discussion.

reply to post by pthena

Personally, I find that I don't have any concept of what "saved" may even mean. So I'm only a casual observer of this discussion.

What I was saying yesterday was that the world is saved if we follow Jesus, to where the world does not need to be destroyed like in Noah's flood. Seems the Yawists want the world to be destroyed anyway, which makes me think they have not quite gotten the message.

reply to post by IAMIAM

He said if you have seen me, you have seen the father. This is because he is the life giving spirit within all of us.

That is one way to interpret it that we should see the god spirit in every person.
Now that being said, it should not detract from what he was claiming for himself which was his being sent from God to reveal God to us in his own person.

reply to post by jmdewey60

the world is saved if we follow Jesus

This is a post-modern world we live in. I was hoping the OP would address that fact in re-defining Christianity. Evidently he's quite self centered, "I was abused. I sinned. I got saved. I'm still a sinner. I will tell you how to be saved too!"

A little disappointing.

IAMIAM at least seems to grapple with the post-modern situation:

Originally posted by IAMIAM

He said if you have seen me, you have seen the father. This is because he is the life giving spirit within all of us.

To enter the Kingdom of Heaven, one must become like little children. Children are not those who have spent years researching. Children are those who empty their cups and view the world with innocence once more.

God does not need a name or our worship. He gave a Law written on our hearts at birth. Sadly, this cruel world we have created has caused us to forget or not trust that Law.

Depending on how John 1:9 is translated, that may also be the message of John.

Edit to add:

I wrote the above before seeing that you and IAMIAM have a history of discussion. I'll step out.

Seems the Yawists want the world to be destroyed anyway, which makes me think they have not quite gotten the message.

Which is what I see as the main problem of Christianity today, which really needs serious addressing.

reply to post by pthena

Depending on how John 1:9 is translated, that may also be the message of John.

The Greek allows it to be understood either way. It is normally translated to mean the light is coming into the world but the reasoning is based on the idea that the coming was what was referred to in the next verse. I would reject that in favor of the idea that the light had been around previously but was not effectively picked up on, so the light came again, this time in a more tangible form to where it did get picked up on at least by some, enough to create a movement based on that understanding.
So using that reasoning, you can interpret the verse like you say, in IAMIAM's favor, that the light is the true light which enlightens people, where the term everyone who comes into the world, just means, everyone.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by boony

 

Point me in the direction of a CHRISTIAN CONSPIRACY SITE and I will leave.

Worthy Christian Forums

Here's betting you won't really leave.

Well I win the bet, mine was you would fail on delivering what I requested. You did
Cheers ears.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Jesus in his own person is the revelation of the character of God, so he, Jesus is the name by which God is known.

There's the rub.... Jesus in his own person is the REVELATION of the Character of God.... He reveals God's character. Christ embodies his character because God taught Jesus, but that cannot logically be construed as Jesus BEING God.. Jesus cannot BE his own Father. He has a creator, as we do. God said 'This is my Son, listen to him', & Jesus said 'Those who have seen me have seen the father also'. He is saying they are separate entities, but He closely resembles God, because he has been taught by God. Jesus also said 'No man may come to the father,except through me', & 'I do nothing of my own accord, only the will of him that sent me'. They are definitely not the same entity by what Jesus & God have both said.. one way to look t things is:We all think we are creations of the state, because the state gives us birth certs & social security numbers, but we are not.Now, on the 'is this person nuts' front, Jesus represents God. We REPRESENT a legal fiction, created by government as money-cows, & they hold a flesh & blood person liable for something that doesn't really exist, ie MAX E MILLION. Capitalized name is NOT a man. It is a slave, & they take money off slaves. (judges are just administrators for the state) God didn't enslave us because we have a choice...Take a judge, take off his clothes, & He is just a man.. A naked man, but a man, none the more, with NO God-given authority over you. If we go to court dressed up, we can pretend to be anything we want too! They do, because the Judge is not created by God, he is a judge in our minds due to systemic conditioning & the clothes he wears. But if you don't OWE the judge/man behind the judge, He has no business in your business..He cannot claim anything from you. The man must have a claim.. More fool us, but the bible makes the law, so I use that... It is very successful.! The system is very bad & deceptive. It is an affront to mankind. Sorry, that's another thread, i think. Worth looking into though. None of us can know the whole truth, but this is a fun way to find out who you(as in, 'we')!! are.

reply to post by jmdewey60

It is not the World that needs destroying. The planet has done nothing wrong. It is the system that is all around us that IS being destroyed more & more every day. Secretive government is not trustworthy government. Man's government is an abysmal failure. People are dying of starvation in a world of plenty, & the people are meant to change it because of guilt-inducing commercials SHOWING us what Government is ALLOWING TO HAPPEN! when the governments have the means to change it with everything they have stolen from the people... but they consider war much more important!! People are homeless. They have fewer rights every day that doesn't kill them... The right to grow our own food has been taken & outlawed. That is a right given by God, to every man on earth. It is un-alienable. NOBODY can take that, but government thinks it can. 'The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one'. Governments are the Beast in revelation. They will be destroyed for their wickedness to man.

reply to post by pthena

"I was abused. I sinned. I got saved. I'm still a sinner. I will tell you how to be saved too!"

Does someone convicted of murder stop being a "murderer" when they've been on death row for a few years?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I think so, by man's laws. what will God's judgement be based on though..?. They will always be a murderer to those who condemned them. whatever the intention or motivation was that lead to the murder (murder does suggest intention), God will judge on what was in the heart at the time. human's judge others on behalf of themselves, not on behalf of God. Only God can know the intention, so any judgement on earth will be passing.. If God deems you a murderer, then it's probably game over, but He doesn't Judge the event, he judges what is in your heart at the time. If it was with malicious intent, & no repentance was sought, then you may have to pay as a malicious sinner. If there is regret, & not just because you got caught, then God can forgive...The motive can be to protect someone else, but the intention could still be murder, not killing.. eg. I knew someone who killed a person for attacking a woman & child . He stabbed him 1 time, straight through the heart. He was dead before he hit the ground. Is he a murderer or a killer? I often wonder, because that was my 13 year old son protecting his 2 year old sister from her father. He wasn't charged with any crime by man, but would God judge him a murderer? I think man's judgement on things is irrelevant..Only God can judge & forgive..God forgives, where people do not... Or maybe 'You don't stop being a murderer until your figurative heart forgives you.'.??I like the last one better...

reply to post by honestyblaze


It's an allegory man.