Light Created from a Vacuum

reply to post by CLPrime


You just had to toss in Heisenberg, didn't you? Now how are the measurements in the OP's experiment affected by human observation? Could we duplicate the experiment by an autonomous method, say, computers with detectors, and let the experiment run for a few days with no humans present, and would the results be the same?

reply to post by Druid42


What does that have to do with getting photons from a vacuum?
You can't possibly discuss this experiment without "tossing in" Heisenberg. Quantum Uncertainty is exactly what allows the experiment to happen in the first place. Heisenberg Uncertainty allows the existence of virtual particles. Without "tossing in" Heisenberg, the nature of the experiment can't possible be understood - and that, obviously, leads to the (wrong) assumption that it creates energy from nothing.

Originally posted by Druid42

Originally posted by Lifthrasir

Anyway, this experiment is fascinating and I am very glad that this vacuum fluctuation phenomena has been, at least, observed and measured. Some say that this phenomena violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics, but I would hypothesize that these particles arise from either quantum reactions, the kind we haven't yet observed, or come from interactions that occur between universes on a quantum level. Personally, I hypothesize that matter and energy are transferred between universes all the time.

I'll agree with your hypothesis, and raise you one Multiverse. People seem to forget that we are all made up of quantum particles, cohesively bonded into what we describe as Reality. We are simply trying to "Backwards Engineer" our understanding of reality, from what we can observe, to the way things actually work.

Here's a simple thought problem:

We have bodies; which are made up of cells, which are made up of molecules, which are made up of atoms, which are made up of quarks, which are made up of?

We use the photon as the standard unit, and have for years. Why are all observations based on light? If there is no photonic activity, does that mean there are no quantum interactions going on? Hardly. In our attempts to see things backwards, I'd like to think that there will be new units introduced, outside of the ones used by classical physics, and I think we are only on the verge of understanding the true nature of the Multiverse around us. I think the new paradigm, once discovered, would lead to all sorts of whimsical devices, from teleportation to warp drives, or maybe perhaps we'll discover that we are "energy beings", and the need for such devices are quite frivolous indeed. Time will tell.

Strange synchronicity, I was talking about this only yesterday with my work colleagues and I also stated that we are observing something and saying it is so, just because we can't see something doesn't mean its there (by see I also mean measure).

I believe we will eventually come to a realisation that we can in fact manipulate our existence with mere thoughts and who knows, one day we will be able to literally will ourselves from one place/universe/dimension to another (and discover there is life after the 'material death').

soon what has become modern material science will have have no choice to finally merge with spiritual / metaphysical concepts (not talking about the New Age Fluffery but What those who have studied and experienced first hand via Esoteric Studies know to be)

Those doing the tests on physics / quantum physics actually have more of an impact than they realize on the outcome of the experiments / findings because of how our consciousness affects the things around us


Einstein knew this years ago, but then again many things have been kept hidden

reply to post by Maxmars


Are photons considered matter? If they are not considered matter than this is definitely plausible.

I was just commenting on the fact that people are looking at the OP from a frame of reference in which particles could be created from "nothing". Heisenberg postulated his early theories in the late 20's and they have become a cornerstone in our modern understanding of how Quantum Physics work. Without Heisenberg, Schrodinger, Planck, and many of the other early pioneers, talking about quantum mechanics is like eating a hot dog without ketchup or mustard. (Forgive the poor analogy!)

There actually no such thing as "nothing", just a frame of reference that we currently don't completely understand.

I love this story. It shows that the people who think they know everything, really know nothing at all.

Thanks for posting Max, it will be interesting to see where this research extends to.

Yes thank you for posting this OP. I picked up about 10 hours of new videos to watch, the site you got the article from to add to my daily reading library, and good conversation.

Cheers

Thank you to the OP and an additional thanks to everyone for their differing perspectives on this subject. I wonder how many people have actually read through all the replies and really sat back with an open mind and considered what has been said in this topic.

This experiment opens the door to new advances in the way the universe is perceived. What we believe to be true (our perception) has a direct influence on how we interact with our reality.

All the sciences and religions that mankind has produced are a way for us to try and define our existence. We come up with scientific laws and religious beliefs to try and explain why things happen and how.

Newton's Third Law of Motion states that " To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions." What I get out of this law is that the universe is trying to maintain a balance and that this law is a basic universal truth and applies to everything and is also expressed in the Asian philosophy of Yin and Yang.

What does this have to do with the original post you may ask? When the photons appear they do so in pairs.

Magnets have a positive pole and negative, normal matter perceived within the visible light spectrum and dark matter or matter and anti-matter, and the list just keeps growing.

Occasionally we get a gifted individual who thinks outside the box like Nikola Tesla who make extraordinary discoveries well beyond their time and are basically crushed by what at the time is accepted because the ideas they present cannot be quantified or measured.

This tells me that for everything we think we know or understand because we can measure/quantify it, that something else is out there that we do not understand for the same basic reason and that the things we cannot always quantify/measure have an effect on those that we can.

Things once only imagined in science fiction become science fact as humanities perspective of the reality we live in advances. How many Star Trek or Star Wars references are there so far in this topic? Is it possible to believe that the individuals who write these television shows or books are actually tapping into something greater that we do not yet understand in an attempt to prepare us for a possible inevitability.

Anyway I have strayed way off the OP's original topic and do not wish to inadvertently hijack it (so to speak). Just wanted to say thank you to the OP and everyone for giving me different perspectives on the possible revelations of this subject.

reply to post by Agwolf


Unfortunately, Tesla's ideas were crushed because there was no way to make money from them. He was researching free energy transmission, and his funding was withdrawn when they realized that. Welcome to the present, where we have to pay a monthly "Electric Bill". It makes me sad to think we could have free energy, but the world runs on making money and greed.

You've presented some pretty deep thoughts. I can remember the original Star Trek episodes, when Kirk and Spock would teleport to a planet, and to stay in contact with the USS Enterprise, they'd pull a device from their belt, flip it open, and communicate. When in reality they came out with the flip phone, I can remember thinking, this is just like a Star Trek episode.

However, the flip style cell phone is outdated. Smartphones and touch screens are the current standard. Technology is increasing at an exponential rate, and we've surpassed most of what fiction had envisioned.

Are quantum computers around the corner, that use photons instead of circuit boards? I believe so.

It's possible that we are reaching the end of the scientific method since the simple act of observation changes the results of our experiment. (i.e. the double slit experiment)

So experiments like this are just more wading into the quicksand possibly.

Maybe the only think we know at this point is that we influence reality just by looking at it.

Maybe at this point all future experiments are just showing us how far we have progressed in our influence over the observed nature of things.

Originally posted by Maxmars



In a universe where something can come from nothing... is it really safe to say that we "know" anything for certain?



www.sciencedaily.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 18-11-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

I've tried to make this point over and over to people.

It's very important to understand this!

We don't know the WHOLE, so we can't act like the parts we think we know are a set fact!

Originally posted by Druid42
Unfortunately, Tesla's ideas were crushed because there was no way to make money from them. He was researching free energy transmission, and his funding was withdrawn when they realized that. Welcome to the present, where we have to pay a monthly "Electric Bill". It makes me sad to think we could have free energy, but the world runs on making money and greed.

You are forgetting a few small details...

In order for Tesla to transmit this 'free energy' it had to be generated first. Who will build such generators for free? Who will build the devices that use this energy for free?

This was Tesla's first transmitter


No imagine HUNDREDS of these around the world transmitting this power through the air... you don't think that might cause some emf issues? More Cancer? And those towers don't come cheap.

Its easy to talk about free energy but the electricity produced at a hydro electric dam is also free, its the collectors and devices to get it to your home that costs the money

Besides 'free energy' is a misused term anyway. I heat my home on free energy I put in a wood burning stove and my three threes produce enough wood for the short winters we get. THAT is free energy, even though some work is required to collect the fuel. The other end of the free energy spectrum is zero point and over unity...something from nothing...

But you still need the devices to collect it store it and make use of it. Here in Nevada they built a huge solar collector... but the cost of construction means it costs more to collect the sun to convert to electricity than it does the old way so our rates went up

Originally posted by Maxmars

In fact, the vacuum is full of various particles that are continuously fluctuating in and out of existence. They appear, exist for a brief moment and then disappear again. Since their existence is so fleeting, they are usually referred to as virtual particles.

Chalmers scientist, Christopher Wilson and his co-workers have succeeded in getting photons to leave their virtual state and become real photons, i.e. measurable light.

To call this experiment "brilliant" is more than a clever pun!

The reality long clung to by past metaphysical thinkers often included the concept that there was no such thing as a vacuum; there was no space that wasn't somehow imbued with an ethereal substance.

Of course, that was not scientific, and since science up until recently seemed unwilling to accept anything it could not directly measure as real; the notion of virtual particles was a real head scratcher for some traditionalists.

Here they have managed to actually detect these particles popping into reality.... from nothing.

In a universe where something can come from nothing... is it really safe to say that we "know" anything for certain?

The scientists find the photons that appear in pairs in the experiment interesting to study in closer detail. They can perhaps be of use in the research field of quantum information, which includes the development of quantum computers.

However, the main value of the experiment is that it increases our understanding of basic physical concepts, such as vacuum fluctuations -- the constant appearance and disappearance of virtual particles in vacuum. It is believed that vacuum fluctuations may have a connection with "dark energy" which drives the accelerated expansion of the universe. The discovery of this acceleration was recognised this year with the awarding of the Nobel Prize in Physics.

Well worth considering ... and expounding on the possibilities...

www.sciencedaily.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 18-11-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

Instead of particles from nothing how about particles created from the collision of 2 sub plank length particles colliding at high energy. This would give the illusion of virtual particles, simples.

reply to post by zorgon


Nevada has devised the vicest method and devices for collecting "free energy" like nowhere in the world

this is a test and only an avatar test. thankyou

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Nevada has devised the vicest method and devices for collecting "free energy" like nowhere in the world

Well the 'free' stuff is collected on Nellis AFB but they don't share

mypowerlight.com...

Biggest array in America but it's still not enough..

Greedy little buggers, those military dudes

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Nevada has devised the vicest method and devices for collecting "free energy" like nowhere in the world

Well the 'free' stuff is collected on Nellis AFB

but they don't share

mypowerlight.com...

Biggest array in America but it's still not enough..

Greedy little buggers, those military dudes

edit on 20-11-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)

Yep. It seems, when we say "society", we should know that benefits of society are not really meant for all

We exist in the zone of middle dimensions where matter is not solid and space is not empty. "What has been thought of as a particle will have to be thought of as a series of spacetime events. The series of events that replaces the particle has no more substantiality than any other series of events that we might arbitrarily single out but has certain important physical properties and therefore demands our attention.


Thus 'MATTER' is not a part of the ultimate material of this world but merely a convenient way of collecting events into bundes." tell me that this is not a hint at know E.T. matter back in 1947
Rosewell NM that E.T. collected our matter into a convenient bundle for the bigbang tell me how that some one who died in 1970 already knew this?

I found the article linked below and thought I would post it so everyone could draw their own conclusions.

______beforeitsnews/story/1372/608/Marines_Test_New_Energy_Weapon_On_War_On_Trash,_Produces_More_Energy_Than_It_Consumes.html

The Title is misleading, but it is worth reading in my opinion.