Bird Flu Research Rattles Bioterrorism Field

Bird Flu Research Rattles Bioterrorism Field

www.npr.org

Scientists and security specialists are in the midst of a fierce debate over recent experiments on a strain of bird flu virus that made it more contagious.

The big question: Should the results be made public?

Critics say doing so could potentially reveal how to make powerful new bioweapons.

……one scientist made a stunning announcement. At a flu conference..., he said he'd done a lab experiment that resulted in bird flu virus becoming highly contagious between ferrets

(visit the link for the full news article)

H5N1 bird flu is extremely lethal to humans - but not contagious. It doesn't spread easily at all. This scientist created a strain that is both lethal AND highly contagious. He gave a public lecture about his work, and submitted the research for publication in a scientific journal.

One critic, Dr. Thomas Inglesby, a bioterrorism expert and director of the Center for Biosecurity of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center says:

It's just a bad idea for scientists to turn a lethal virus into a lethal and highly contagious virus. And it's a second bad idea for them to publish how they did it so others can copy it.

A legitimate reason for experimenting with viruses is to stay ahead of mutations and be prepared with treatments for whatever might come along. Sharing scientific information helps keep everyone on the same page, so everybody gets to move forward - no one is duplicating work unnecessarily or wasting time and resources. This approach is cooperative instead of competitive, which is considered better when the main goal is protecting public health versus making profits.

In contrast, competitive drug companies and corporations keep their research findings secret, and protect information as intellectual property - even when their funding comes from governments and the public.

As far as H5N1 bird flu goes - many conspiracy theorists believe it was created purposefully by (a) Western corporation(s) to kill off competition from China and other eastern nations. If true, the strategy was very effective - the poultry industry in India, Vietnam, China and Cambodia was practically destroyed, while the Western poultry industry is flourishing.

As far as bioterrorism goes - anyone with the motivation and high-grade technology needed to develop a lethal strain has already done it. More importantly, even the fundamentalists aren't so stupid as to create a pandemic that will kill off their own people.

In fact, corporations are most likely to indulge in agricultural bioterrorism - they have the strongest motivation, best experts, highest quality labs and easiest access to needed materials.

Agricultural Biowarfare & Bioterrorism

"….the list of possible perpetrators includes corporations, which may have state-of-the-art technical expertise.

…corporations ...could benefit immensely from the economic impacts, market share changes, and financial market effects of a successful biological attack. ...The combination of motivation, expertise, and materials within a single, closed organization is worrisome. Of course, corporations, like countries, would run enormous legal risks if they perpetrated a biological attack, so if they were to choose to do this, it would be expertly designed to mimic a natural outbreak or to appear to be the work of others."

I have to wonder - what's Inglesby so worried about? Bioterrorism or pharmaceutical investments and stock value?

What do you think?

Should scientific research be controlled? Censored? Privately owned?




www.npr.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Here's a bit of what Scientific American said about Fouchier's research:

Ron Fouchier, also of Erasmus Medical Center, and his team "mutated the hell out of H5N1" and looked at how readily it would bind with cells in the respiratory tract. What they found is that with as few as five single mutations it gained the ability to latch onto cells in the nasal and tracheal passageways, which, Fouchier added as understated emphasis, "seemed to be very bad news."

The variety that they had created, however, when tested in ferrets (the best animal model for influenza research) still did not transmit very easily just through close contact. It wasn't until "someone finally convinced me to do something really, really stupid," Fouchier said, that they observed the deadly H5N1 become a viable aerosol virus. In the derided experiment, they let the virus itself evolve to gain that killer capacity. To do that, they put the mutated virus in the nose of one ferret; after that ferret got sick, they put infected material from the first ferret into the nose of a second. After repeating this 10 times, H5N1 became as easily transmissible as the seasonal flu.

The lesson from these admittedly high-risk experiments is that "the H5N1 virus can become airborne," Fouchier concluded -and that "re-assortment with mammalian viruses is not needed" for it to evolve to spread through the air. And each of these mutations has already been observed in animals. "The mutations are out there, but they have not gotten together yet," Osterhaus said.

I think that trying to stay ahead of mutations is pointless.
The big one will come eventually and probably soon, it will spread with in days and have the potential to end human life as we know it.

I think in the long run security through obscurity is a failed model. Eventually the data will leak somewhere or be rediscovered. When it does, watch out! Best to start terraforming and colonizing other planets ASAP.

reply to post by soficrow


Of topic, but I am curious. Soficrow you post mostly about disease and stuff. Any reason? If personal you don't have to tell. If it's just your interest I am curious.

Also I would like to suggest you read "The Hot Zone" if you haven't and are interested in that stuff.

On Topic: WTF is wrong with them? Have the already made a vaccine to sell us? This is the stuff that makes me very suspicious of big pharma companies. Make a contagious flu, it finds it's way and escapes, we have to buy vaccines. Why would the make it more contagious? They mutate fast enough on their own. If it mutates we will have a super contagious flu that mutated to the point that vaccines aren't effective..

Lame news.

What's the point of even doing this unless you want to create a bio-weapon?

Poor ferrets

I think that the results should be destroyed. There are just some things that man should not tinker in. At least in the way of making it worse for human kind. I also think that the persons, companies and sponsors should all be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

reply to post by LuxFestinus

security through obscurity is a failed model

This is not a case of security through obscurity, its information suppression, they share similarities but are not the same.

Information suppression in this case is a control scheme, and prevents nothing at all the resource is not innovative enough that only the creator knows how to replicate it, and so because others know the cat is already out of the bag. The best action available is to create a full spectrum flue virus vaccine in place of keeping the labs fat by creating a new vaccine each year...



(I gave you a star, since I'm with you in moving some eggs from the single basket)

Humanity sure likes to play with fire....

It's only a matter of time before the world burns now.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

Of topic, but I am curious. Soficrow you post mostly about disease and stuff. Any reason? If personal you don't have to tell. If it's just your interest I am curious.

I post mostly about disease because it's the topic I know best - and because we've changed our world in ways that create new diseases, accelerate evolution and do not support life as we know it. ...I think it's really important - more important than war and most everything else in the news.

...I've always been into science but got into this particular focus for personal reasons - have had flare-ups of horrific illness since childhood, but wasn't diagnosed until I was 38. I started researching to learn more about my own disease, and opened a can of worms. Discovered cover-up on top of cover-up - a huge story that's been suppressed, censored and misrepresented for almost a hundred years. We're at the biological tipping point now. ...As boring as the science and details are to most people, I think people have a right to know what's been done to them, and their world, and to know what's really on the table.

ED. to ADD: PS. The findings I started writing about 10 years ago are now being (re)validated by current scientific research. I feel vindicated, and inclined to press the point.

Also I would like to suggest you read "The Hot Zone" if you haven't and are interested in that stuff.

Thanks - definitely something I'd like - but my own interests and concerns go way beyond "normal" contagion.

On Topic: WTF is wrong with them? Have the already made a vaccine to sell us? This is the stuff that makes me very suspicious of big pharma companies. Make a contagious flu, it finds it's way and escapes, we have to buy vaccines. Why would the make it more contagious? They mutate fast enough on their own. If it mutates we will have a super contagious flu that mutated to the point that vaccines aren't effective..

The main point is - at this point - those mutations have already evolved naturally. Life is designed to mutate and evolve - we added new elements to the planetary petrie dish, and we cannot control the outcomes.

Lame news.

imho - what's lame is the focus on "biosecurity." It's a joke, given the big picture.

Does this mean I got the vaccine for nothing? Or does that only go for swineflu..

reply to post by Duckling

Does this mean I got the vaccine for nothing? Or does that only go for swineflu..

Vaccines have problems. Never mind the contaminants, which can be substantial, vaccines tend to short circuit our immune response and leave us more vulnerable than we would be without them. Turns out getting infected naturally is a good thing.

Annual Flu Vaccines Could Leave People Vulnerable to Novel Pandemics

With most countries and government recommending annual flu vaccinations for certain high-risk groups and healthy children against seasonal virus, the effect of the annual shot might not be all that favorable.

According to a new research paper published in the November Journal of Virology, vaccinating children annually against influenza virus could interfere with their development of cross-reactive killer T cells to flu viruses.

Lead author Rogier Bodewes of Erasmus Medical Center, Rotterdam, and his collaborators warn of potentially conflicting outcomes from annual flu shots.

"Annual flu vaccines are effective against seasonal flu, but could leave people more vulnerable to novel pandemics", said Bodewes. "Induction of virus-specific killer T cells caused by childhood flu infection may reduce morbidity and mortality rates from pandemic influenza viruses."

I don't understand why mankind has to play with fire like that.
But then again, the big pharma companies stand to benefit, don't they?
This stuff is like Stephen Kings 'The Stand', potentially very scary.
So you seem to think, Soficrow, that I am justified in my personal opinion that the annual 'flu shots' should be avoided? I have always felt it was some kind of conspiracy just because we don't know what it really contains.

To waste money, time and resources on finding ways to mutate germs into killers of mankind is, to me, a crime against humanity.

Imagine if these brilliant minds were researching ways to keep us healthy, and it wasn't a question of greed, warfare, or private intellectual property.

The US has been the biggest culprit in bio terrorism, and they have a list of crimes a mile long when it comes to experimenting on unknowing citizen of the US, Canada, and other countries. Just as they had no business digging up an Alaskan woman who died of the 1918 Spanish Influenza and harvested those flu germs from her frozen lung tissue, they have no business making a deadly virus more virulent and contagious.

All of humanity will pay for the folly of these scientists. They are like children with a chemistry set, and it is only a matter of time before we all get burned.

If in their infinite wisdom these Frankenstein Researchers can develop these viruses to such a point - then for God Sake, don't believe for one moment that they haven't also developed a sure antidote for those deemed worthy of life.

ie. The Government Puppets, Themselves and Families, Other useful Professions deemed necessary and those with Lots of Money and like minded people like those in Eugenics.

The world is fast becoming a very unsafe place for them - Protests in all key countries - do the Math - What comes next? It doesn't take Einstein to work it out - they're going to have to swot millions of flies when austerity measures really cut in - the impact of these measures are going to be so extensive and expanding that hunger and disease will be inevitable - so when they do release this Frankenstein Virus it will appear very natural under the conditions people will be living - and you know what - like the Aids Virus the population will really believe that it's perfectly natural and their Governments are doing their best to help them.

But hey, just in case Mr. Joe Blog catches on to their game (not everyone is on ATS) then they have their Trusty Bunkers and won't have to stay down there for long while the flies above ground simply die off - they won't even need ammo - just wait it out in luxury!

Nagh - THEY WOULDN'T DO THAT - WOULD THEY?

reply to post by horseplay

I don't understand why mankind has to play with fire like that.
But then again, the big pharma companies stand to benefit, don't they?

These guys want to understand how things work, to better protect people - AND -

They want to share their knowledge. Unlike private industry and the "biosecurity" guys - who want to privatize all knowledge.

This stuff is like Stephen Kings 'The Stand', potentially very scary.

I find the guys who DON'T talk about what they're doing much more scary.

So you seem to think, Soficrow, that I am justified in my personal opinion that the annual 'flu shots' should be avoided? I have always felt it was some kind of conspiracy just because we don't know what it really contains.

Like I said...

Vaccines have problems. Never mind the contaminants, which can be substantial, vaccines tend to short circuit our immune response and leave us more vulnerable than we would be without them. Turns out getting infected naturally is a good thing.

Annual Flu Vaccines Could Leave People Vulnerable to Novel Pandemics

With most countries and government recommending annual flu vaccinations for certain high-risk groups and healthy children against seasonal virus, the effect of the annual shot might not be all that favorable.

According to a new research paper published in the November Journal of Virology, vaccinating children annually against influenza virus could interfere with their development of cross-reactive killer T cells to flu viruses.

Lead author Rogier Bodewes of Erasmus Medical Center, Rotterdam, and his collaborators warn of potentially conflicting outcomes from annual flu shots.

"Annual flu vaccines are effective against seasonal flu, but could leave people more vulnerable to novel pandemics", said Bodewes. "Induction of virus-specific killer T cells caused by childhood flu infection may reduce morbidity and mortality rates from pandemic influenza viruses."

reply to post by FissionSurplus

To waste money, time and resources on finding ways to mutate germs into killers of mankind is, to me, a crime against humanity.

They need to know what they're dealing with and how mutation works in order to actually deal with it.

Imagine if these brilliant minds were researching ways to keep us healthy, and it wasn't a question of greed, warfare, or private intellectual property.

They are - and unlike private industry, they want to share their knowledge - not sell it to the highest bidder. Methinks that's the real problem here.

All of humanity will pay for the folly of these scientists. They are like children with a chemistry set, and it is only a matter of time before we all get burned.

In general, I agree with you. In general, this stuff happens, we're not told, and the research goes to whoever pays for it, to use however they want. In this case, the scientists want to publish, so everyone knows what they discovered. Not just the guys with the big bucks.

reply to post by quedup

If in their infinite wisdom these Frankenstein Researchers can develop these viruses to such a point - then for God Sake, don't believe for one moment that they haven't also developed a sure antidote for those deemed worthy of life.

....so when they do release this Frankenstein Virus it will appear very natural under the conditions people will be living - and you know what - like the Aids Virus the population will really believe that it's perfectly natural and their Governments are doing their best to help them.

Nagh - THEY WOULDN'T DO THAT - WOULD THEY?

Yes - "they" would do that. But these researchers aren't "they." These researchers want to share their findings with everyone - not just the Big Boyz with the Big Bucks.

.....Truth is, industry has created a world where everything is mutating out of control. The only solution is prevention - but that would cut profits. A few fools still think they can stop the train, and that vaccines actually work. They're still trying - for the good of all humankind, not just the bottom line. These scientists are good guys.

Sounds to me like most everyone here thinks only the Big Boyz in our corporate-government should have this kind of knowledge - AND - they should keep quiet about it too.

Creating/altering a virus as a bioweapon is a major crime against humanity and other living creatures on the planet and should be treated as such, no matter how these sociopaths rationalize it in their heads. These whores are doing this for money. Nothing more and nothing less.

We don't need bioweapons.

We don't want bioweapons.

No one should be creating bioweapons.

The reason they have to keep this kind of research secret is not to keep secrets from any "enemy." It's because they know the vast, vast majority of humanity would not fund and/or stand for this.