PIRACY - Should not be a crime... here is why:

Originally posted by AlertInMi
Everyone

Bottom line is this. Ending the law on Piracy WOULD MOST DEFINITELY increase the quality of product being put out there. Companies would have to work to stay ahead.... BUT, until the law is changed, you are stealing!!

until the law is changed, you are stealing!! and shame on you, IF you get caught lol

I have lurked on these boards for years, and finally something that has caused me to sign up and respond.

I am a filmmaker. And, piracy is a fact of life. For years, I have bitched, complained, and waged a war on 'pirates'. Obviously all my bitching does nothing to change it, or stop it.

What people don't consider when downloading is how is affects the 'artist'. They think - "screw the man" or "down with the suits" no one ever realizes how the creator is hurt in this process.

An example, I had a movie released in 5 theaters two months ago. Only 5. The only way the movie was to grow was through TICKET SALES, and POSITIVE WORD OF MOUTH.

The movie leaked on line 3 months before the release, it was pirated, and copied, and viewed. By the time the film was released into theaters, it had been on torrent sights for months. Hell, it even was on YOUTUBE.

We tried to have the movie pulled, but at that time it had spread so quickly, and so rapidly there was no removing it.

For a limited release film, every dollar is make, or break.

Your ticket sales is how I work. It's how I continue to make movies. It's how I continue to be hired to direct movies.

I am not judging those who do pirate, but it does hurt the artists personally who try to make this art.

At least for me it does!

Excited to have finally joined this community with my first post!

reply to post by GringoViejo


I completly agree with you, i have a cousin who writes and produces music, and he makes quite a bit performing gigs across Canada. Sure he might never get millions of dollars, but in the end his "producers" woulda got 90% of that money anyway. Theyre the real pirates. Hes even said so himself.

Besides, no one buys cd's anymore, no one i know, and theyre not all pirates so what does that tell you? Other than the fact that no one wants Justin Bieber's music, or most of the garbage being made now adays anyways.

And movies, dont get me started on that... Lets just say this, who hasnt rented a movie twice on vhs, then baught it on vhs, only to have to buy it again on dvd, then they make new tv's that make those dvd's obselte, so now you buy it again on blu ray, which we all know will be replaced in a under 10 years by 4k pixel medium...

Whos the real pirates there? Especially when most these movies being sold as "anniversary" or "collectors" editions for $24.99 were cheaply produced "B" movies from the 80's. And almost all your money just goes into the pockets of a few "producers" and not the writers and actors that made them good movies to begin with.

Then we have video games, like COD8 which is and always has been a clone of the last game on a slightly different engine, so theyre really just selling you a few new maps a year under the guise of a "new" title. I cant even think of how many Pc games ive baught latley that made me feel like some just stole $60 from me for there shotty coding and lack of quality control and inability to fix them with a simple patch only to turn around and try to sell downloadable content before fixing the game...

And they call us pirates. LMFAO.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by byteshertz

Originally posted by Resinveins
You might want to specify that it's internet piracy or intellectual property piracy.

You might get some excited responses from Somalia otherwise

Haha yeah, I should be more specific but I don't want people thinking this stops on the internet, I am attacking all patent law, because it doesnt stop in the virtual world. Thanks for reading

You're against ALL patents? Really? That makes no sense. Why in the world would any company ever invest time and money into developing a superior product if ANYONE could just replicate it?

Ending all patent protection would be a great start if your goal was stifling innovation.

The patent idee is bogus. It don't stop Microsoft from stealing everything it want's from the smaller companies but when they steal from microsofte the lawers come in. Face it it's only the big companies that win in the patent game and the use the law to parasite the smaller companies. And who know what stuff the oil companies have in their patent trunk that would have revolutionised the world if it was allowed. Dream on and listen to your masters.

reply to post by AlertInMi


Very True in my opinion. I am a Pearl Jam fan and Pearl Jam had a very open trading policy regarding live shows official and unofficial that were not for sale to be traded easily. However, the band changed it's tune when it launched it's online distribution of live shows in 2005. It became common behavior for retail bootleg content to be posted all over the net. The band went from being nice about it to cracking down on folks trading things. I have seen my favorite band flip the script because they love doing what they do and making a living at it. They also like making money and when they begin to see a trend where a good bit of money is not making it to there pocket then they notice quickly. The internet has changed everything. While Pearl Jam are still way more relaxed than any other band I have encountered about sharing official live shows online that are no longer for sale, they learned there lesson and no longer end sales on there live bootlegs to negate trading of there official bootlegs from 2008 to date.

Eddie Vedder has made some brief coments on such things as well which is the opposite of how he felt about stuff back in the day. He made it policy that no one can even trade his live shows in audience recording form.

You've got a point, creative industries haven't kept pace with technology and what they allow us to do, but just because you can do something, doesn't automatically mean you should, or that it's right. A new system is needed to ensure that creators are fairly rewarded for the present and future use of their original work. If no one pays for a book, DVD or CD/download, how do the writers/musicians/directors etc get paid? If they don't get paid, they can't make a living in creative industries and those works we obtain for free start to disappear.

Originally posted by AzureSky
I download TV shows. Because they show them for free anyways on television, i like having no commercials.

Really? You mean you get free cable or sattelite? Correct me if i'm wrong, but you pay for that connection (or someone does), so in what way is a TV show free?

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by byteshertz

Originally posted by Resinveins
You might want to specify that it's internet piracy or intellectual property piracy.

You might get some excited responses from Somalia otherwise

Haha yeah, I should be more specific but I don't want people thinking this stops on the internet, I am attacking all patent law, because it doesnt stop in the virtual world. Thanks for reading

You're against ALL patents? Really? That makes no sense. Why in the world would any company ever invest time and money into developing a superior product if ANYONE could just replicate it?

Ending all patent protection would be a great start if your goal was stifling innovation.

The patent idee is bogus. It don't stop Microsoft from stealing everything it want's from the smaller companies but when they steal from microsofte the lawers come in. Face it it's only the big companies that win in the patent game and the use the law to parasite the smaller companies. And who know what stuff the oil companies have in their patent trunk that would have revolutionised the world if it was allowed. Dream on and listen to your masters.

Why is it when anyone disagrees with this type of radical thinking, the go-to insult is accusing you of serving some sort of "masters"?

Can you people not understand that it is actually possible to THINK FOR OURSELVES that certain laws ACTUALLY ARE BENEFICIAL to our society as a whole? I don't need a "master" to tell me that. I happen to LIKE many of the innovative products that are developed because of patent protection.

I understand that here on ATS it is popular to blame everything on "the man" and TPTB" and "our masters" and "the evil corporations" , but believe it or not, not everyone thinks you are correct.

I'm sure you typed this while running the Ubuntu operating system on the computer you made yourself out of spare parts, right?

reply to post by Justaguy1976


Did you ever stop to think that its not our fault most feel the need to pirate, or that your movies dont make you rich because theyre not "produced" by mega rich corporations?

So whos to blame there, the majority of "poor" people who have to live check to check who have no choice but to pirate a movie if they want to see it, or the "suits" that didnt give your movies enough budget to get into more than 5 theaters or even a tv commercial.

I do feel sorry for anyone expecting to make it big in todays media industry, becasue in the end it doesnt matter how hard you work, if you dont have a budget to compete with the big movie companies, you dont have a chance. So you cant keep blaming the average guy who cant even afford every movie they want for $24.99. And unless the "CGI" and and or animatronics and or acting are on par with Universal pictures unprecedented budget quality, which person with a budget to buy 1 movie a month is gonna buy a movie they never heard about?

And what was the name of the movie you made? because i do actually OWN over 200 movies on blu ray. But unless you can afford to release it on blu ray at a price competative of the big companies but not to expensive compared to its production values... blah blah blah, i think you get my point, the average guy isnt keeping your movies from making it big, its just what the industry has turned into, and its left a bad taste in everyones mouths.

reply to post by kman420


Your logic is flawed.

Correct, producers do get 90% of the money, sometimes more. I, as the creator am lucky to see 2%. How I ever see my 2% is if the film does well.

How do we measure success? Through how many people buy the DVD, or how many tickets we sold. So every time you download my movie - or buy it from a burned copy. You are taking from my 2%.

Arguing pirating is like arguing religion, no one will ever really change an opinion.

First off, there are MANY different types of pirating. There is pirating movies, games, software. There is also pirating unfinished works.

But consider this. If you worked for months, and months on a presentation that was VERY important to you, and your career. This was a make or break presentation. You rehearsed for weeks standing in front of the mirror prepping, practicing, rewriting.

The day you were to do your presentation the WORD document leaked online. Your entire speech was there, hell, even the video of you practicing your speech was there.

Suddenly the entire group of people who were about to gather to hear you talk, to see your presentation no longer show up. Why? Because they already experienced it. Although they viewed in on their iphones, or lap tops.

We justify hitting the download button, as we think we are not physically TAKING anything. But you are. You are taking away the ability for us 'artists' to continue to create art. Again, our success is only measured by sales.

That all being said, I don't try to change your mind, only illuminate you to the other side.

Why is this so hard to understand? If you acquire something that is for sale without paying for it - that's stealing. Doesn't matter if it's easy and convenient. Doesn't matter that many people participate in it. Doesn't matter that it may not be a physical object. Stop trying to justify it.

reply to post by kman420


Saying that you steal because you can not afford to experience is an unfair excuse.

Where do we draw the line?

"Sorry officer I stole that car because I couldn't afford to actually buy it."

Originally posted by FreshNugget

Originally posted by AzureSky
I download TV shows. Because they show them for free anyways on television, i like having no commercials.

Really? You mean you get free cable or sattelite? Correct me if i'm wrong, but you pay for that connection (or someone does), so in what way is a TV show free?

Not to mention the commercials make the shows possible...nobody like commercials, but then again who likes paying for gas or food either?

reply to post by Flint2011


1) Eddie Vedder > Chris Cornell FTW!!!!!
2) Flint ----- I live 30 miles southwest of Flint you from the area?

Thank you for your input on my post. Have a great day!!!

reply to post by RedParrotHead

If you acquire something that is for sale without paying for it - that's stealing.

It's only stealing if the supposed "Victim" loses something in their possession.

Copying data is not theft, because there is no LOSS.



reply to post by Justaguy1976

So every time you download my movie - or buy it from a burned copy. You are taking from my 2%.

It was never your 2% in the first place.

It's not like you HAD the money, and then the act of copying the material TOOK it from you.... It was never yours to begin with.

reply to post by AlertInMi


Not from Flint or anywhere near it. It's inspired by A Marvel character in the G.I. Joe comic/cartoon series.

I am a fan of Chris Cornell and Eddie Vedder. Not sure what you were saying there but to each there own.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


Surely you don't believe this? Surely you can't be this naive?

If I came in and took a NOVEL you were writing, one you spent 10 years on. And I put it out there for the WORLD to freely copy and download.

Say this was your FIRST Novel, and everything counted on it being a success to guarantee your second novel would go to publishing.

You don't find this stealing?

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


That is such a mental midget argument.

The owner invented or produced a product.. They charge for the product. Your a new age "waaaa everything should be free, and all rich people should give me their stuff, so I can have that stuff" I want stuff........sniffle - mouth breathe

Sometimes people are lucky that this is not a face to face forum......

I am so sick of our entitled youth... Or, our highly ignorant elders....

Earn it, then buy it, you'll feel like you are contributing to society, because as a pirate, you are going against the principles of "love thy neighbor"

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


It was never my money to begin with? That would be like your boss telling you "yeah, I know you worked 40 hours this week, and we owe you a couple grand, but the bank decided not to pay you. And since the bank never wrote your check, the money isn't owed to you. EVEN THOUGH you did the work, I am just choosing not to pay you."

reply to post by Justaguy1976

Surely you don't believe this? Surely you can't be this naive?

We're about to find out how naive you are, actually.

If I came in...

Breaking and entering, Trespassing.

and took a NOVEL you were writing

Theft of paper.

And I put it out there for the WORLD to freely copy and download.

Say this was your FIRST Novel, and everything counted on it being a success to guarantee your second novel would go to publishing.

You don't find this stealing?

The part where you physically stole my Book, yes... But since you didn't profit from it..... the copying and distributing is not Theft.

That's just reproduction.

Copyright exists to provide a temporary monopoly on SELLING an intellectual item, it does not include copying, reproducing, and distributing something that is not for profit.

Only the SELLING part.

You broke into my house, Trespassed on my Property, and you stole my Physical Manuscript... that's enough to put you in jail.

Had I a copyright on that manuscript, No-one but me could SELL it.... or make MONEY off of it in any way.

Because THAT would violate the copyright.