PIRACY - Should not be a crime... here is why:

reply to post by AlertInMi

"Bands just do it for the music" BS they do it for the money and fame!

I am a musician. If it was all about the money, i would have quit playing years ago. I enjoy it when somebody listens to my music, and if they want to download it, and pass it along to someone else, GOOD!!!! All the better to get known.

reply to post by AlertInMi


I'm never going to buy a CD, I will only ever pirate music, movies, and video games. Not because I don't care for the artist, but because I despise publishers. EA is a good example of this, and I will never in my life pay for a Sims game.

However, if content providers want my money, I would gladly pay to them directly through Paypal, for their content. I just never want to see a dime go to their publishers.

Isn't piracy the loop hole and side effect to file sharing? People found out a way to distribute copies of their own property and share it to other people through a searchable data base for free. If I want to make a copy of a music CD and email it to my friend for free, is it illegal?(Seriously, is it?) So what is wrong with being able to do this on a massive scale, automatically? The controversy lies in whether the seeder actually owns that material or if it is merely a copy from someone else.

People should have to pay for art, but people shouldn't be punished for accepting giveaways. It's not entirely free also, don't forget you need a computer with internet access.

The thing is, the artists don't care if people download their music. From what I understand, bands hardly make any money at all from record sales, they make their money from touring. The record industry takes all the money from record sales. CD's/DVD's are overpriced and inflated to ridiculous amounts when production costs are considered, so who are the real thieves here?

I don't know, I just don't see the parallel between breaking into someone's house and stealing property to downloading a song or video off of youtube, for example. The stuff is in the public domain for anyone to see for free. Again, I don't make a habit of downloading copyrighted things and if I do and I like it, I'll buy it. With prices the way they are now, I don't want to waste money on something that sucks. I want to make sure I'll like it first, kind of like test driving a car before you buy it. The quality of music in general has dropped off significantly over the last decade. It's all about the singles. So, since the artists (or anyone really who would have a reason to be mad over this) aren't complaining and don't seem to think this is a big deal, what's the problem? If they don't care that people download their works, how is it stealing?

I would never steal from anyone, friend, family or stranger and I don't see the comparison between that and downloading something that someone else made and doesn't care if fans download it. Seems like a big exaggeration, especially when people attempt to equate it to breaking and entering into someone's home. Huge difference.

I agree with you.
and just look at how much Money Battlefield 3 if making.
its braking records.

so much for pirating!
if its good they will pay for it.

Originally posted by buddha
I agree with you.
and just look at how much Money Battlefield 3 if making.
its braking records.

so much for pirating!
if its good they will pay for it.

exactly its reallly interesting how these companies are staying in business and having record profits (if these games are worth the material they are printed on) but yet all this rampant piracy is affecting them so much...

If everybody pirated Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion, then Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim would have never been developed.
Pirating is unfair to people who pay for the game as it diminishes the quality of future products.
As long as pirates are in the minority it's not a huge deal but that doesn't make it right.
I agree that downloading music is fine as it is free advertising for live performances.
Also something like Skyrim takes a massive amount of time to develop and is easily worth $60, unlike most video games these days.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by byteshertz

 

The idea that created art should be free is silly, in any form art takes effort, in the example of say a movie, it takes thousands of people sometimes to make, they should be compensated fairly.

Music is the same, the artist should be paid.

So should video game designers and Authors.

They earn their living off their work and deserve some compensation.

Now what NEEDS to happen, is Everyone with a Copyright needs to get on the ball with Digital distribution and make it easy to PAY for their goods online and virtual.

Its one thing ITUNES proved, people will pay for music, you just have to make it cheap and easy to get to, the problem is Companies sticking to Archaic Business practices in a digital age.


Im gonna admit to something here, Yes I have pirated, but Ill give you an example, I Pre-ordered Skyrim on the PC, I really love elder scrolls game, I Found it online though downloaded it early and played it, I STILL BOUGHT it as got the Special edition with all the cool # with it.

I downloaded it because it was faster than going to pick it up at the store and I could play it instantly before it was even out technically, BUT I STILL Bought the product I preordered because of the added value that came with it.

THats what companies need to do is provide more value with their products, its seems only the Young unemployed OWS Generation has a problem with paying for goods and services rendered.

edit on 16-11-2011 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Skyrim is available as a torrent download??!!?
Ahem,... i just remembered there is something i , er forgot, umm, left the oven on, i gotta go.....

Originally posted by AlertInMi
I think you and I have had a conversation about this before.....


If you make piracy legal, the quality of product and or services will go down hill fast.
If software was free, do you think we would have windows 7?

"Bands just do it for the music" BS they do it for the money and fame!

Anyone who thinks that piracy should be legal is obviously not well versed in business.

Inventor$ - 90% invent for profit, Mu$ician$ - like the money .... Only to have some grubby little POS, steal it on the net...

FACT: anyone that believes in "legal piracy" DOES NOT have something on the internet for sale.

While that's all well and good, there's just one hangup.

You can't really own or control information. Music, images, text... these sort of things aren't like objects that you can put in a box and keep just to yourself and people who buy 'em. By their very nature, informational mediums travel person to person.

Imagine if someone way back when had tried to patent the idea of "sharp rock." In today's world, you could theoretically do this.. .and sue everyione who ever makes a sharp rock.

The very idea of patenting itself is ridiculous, because of this problem - information is impossible to monopolize. Trying to do so is a waste of effort and money on your part.

Some companies out there - such as hasbro, owners of the magical horsie-things I've adorned myself with - have openly stated that they support the use of their intellectual property... because widespread use of images, sound, even entire videos of their product acts as free advertising, that in turn translates directly into higher sales for their toy lines.

The problem with industries like the RIAA, is that their entire business model hinges on patenting the unpatentable. Their best bet is reorganizing that business model, and realize that these songs being taken on the intenret serve as advertising for concerts, merchandise, and "special features" sets. I suppose that such a reorrganization will see a reduction in profit... but it can't really be any larger a loss than what happens when you make headlines by suing a family of four because their 12 year old girl downloaded a Miley Cyrus track.

reply to post by dc4lifeskater


Every single person I know who is involved in any variety of artistic medium - from the base levels of lolcats, all the way to the pinnacles of glorious digital masterpieces - has Adobe photoshop installed on their computer. All of them.

Know what i've never seen?

Anyone who has the box for Adobe photoshop... which by the way, costs over seven hundred dollars, when you add in S&H and taxes.

The same can be said of the myriads of people who produce music, or videos... These programs are, in all honesty, priced for professional, industrial use (would YOU pay seven hundred bucks for Photoshop?)

Now the question is... if kept under lock and key, do you think the world would be better-off without so much photoshop? So many sound and video editors? For that matter, without all the advertising these "stolen" goods do for their companies - you know damn well that Adobe is making a killing off people legitimately buying Photoshop after they see what the program is capable of - would they still be making ANY money from 'em? I remember back in ye olden day when people were like "pffft, photoshop? I have MS paint!"

Originally posted by musicalmirrors
If everybody pirated Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion, then Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim would have never been developed.
Pirating is unfair to people who pay for the game as it diminishes the quality of future products.
As long as pirates are in the minority it's not a huge deal but that doesn't make it right.
I agree that downloading music is fine as it is free advertising for live performances.
Also something like Skyrim takes a massive amount of time to develop and is easily worth $60, unlike most video games these days.

let me crack an egg of knowledge all over you...

I bought oblivion (after I illegally downloaded it and tried it out) I bought it for PC, and PS3 (something I don't think i should do because its the same game why should I buy 2 copies because the company uses different formats)

Skyrim has been available to me illegally for a while now and I don't think its even out yet to buy (not sure when) I downloaded and played it for 30 min and I deleted it and I will not be buying skyrim...

Why will I not be buying skyrim you ask? Because the game is crap compared to oblivion, they are just spinning off the popularity of the previous game and people are buying it because they THINK its going to be a better game when in fact it is not...

So if I would have bought the game, and I did not like it... guess what??? I cannot return it once its been opened so now I have a piece of software I have wasted money on that is crap and I wont be playing. So how is that fair to the consumer?

If you go to a store and buy a shirt you can return it, why not a game or a movie if you don't like it? Because it could be copied? Well I could copy the shirt also once I have one to use as a source then return it... I could do that with allot of things but why would I... It is already available for downloaded and pirated so why would I go to the store and try to pirate it myself when I could just skip that part and download it from my home?

Answer: because they do not care if you like it that is your problem if you don't like it not their problem, they already have your money why would they give it back. Example if you buy a shirt and its cheap and the threads rip you can't return it... Does not matter if the product is crap because you bought it thats your problem...

So if you are not going to allow me to demo a game/software I will download a pirated version and test it, if I like it I'll buy it...

Good luck going to adobe and buying photoshop then trying to return it because you don't like using it or it doesn't do what you want it to do, and who has the huge amount of money to buy something like this and other expensive software jsut to test it and find out its not what you need?

Example... I use Gimp for windows, its just like photoshop and they have it for linux and windows so I can use it on both... I downloaded a pirated photoshop and tested it out... I do not like it... I deleted it... yet most would say I deserve jailtime or a huge fine for this when I simply wanted to see why I should pay thousands for a software when one (gimp) is free and works just as good if not better then the paid one.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by dc4lifeskater

 

Every single person I know who is involved in any variety of artistic medium - from the base levels of lolcats, all the way to the pinnacles of glorious digital masterpieces - has Adobe photoshop installed on their computer. All of them.

Know what i've never seen?

Anyone who has the box for Adobe photoshop... which by the way, costs over seven hundred dollars, when you add in S&H and taxes.

The same can be said of the myriads of people who produce music, or videos... These programs are, in all honesty, priced for professional, industrial use (would YOU pay seven hundred bucks for Photoshop?)

Now the question is... if kept under lock and key, do you think the world would be better-off without so much photoshop? So many sound and video editors? For that matter, without all the advertising these "stolen" goods do for their companies - you know damn well that Adobe is making a killing off people legitimately buying Photoshop after they see what the program is capable of - would they still be making ANY money from 'em? I remember back in ye olden day when people were like "pffft, photoshop? I have MS paint!"

I use gimp its better then photoshop and free...

but you are correct i myself know plenty of people who use software and make money using it but have never bought it which is funny because some of them are the most straight edge people you would meet. I know plenty of Law enforcement who have huge collections of movies/music/software that they did not pay for... you would be surprised... I was told by one that most lower law enforcement dont care they have more important things to worry with like killers and rapists and drug dealers and that all their friends download stuff all the time too.

For the most part there will always be people who will buy the products taht are worth buying and you will also have people that will download whatever they want because they don't want to pay for it or they don't have the money to pay for it... so when you people that wont pay or cant pay you cant say that if you stopped all forms of piracy they would buy it because they wouldn't...

And you are correct plenty of people that use many pirated software are basically selling other people on these products... WOW YOU CAN DO THAT WITH PHOTOSHOP!!!! I will buy that program because I can afford it, I will take classes in school for it and learn it, ect, ect down the line...

The people who are going to buy will buy the poeple who arent wont putting them in jail solves nothing... put the people who SELL pirated things in jail these are the people who are doing wrong they are profiting from other people and stealing from them that is stealing 100%

What people don't understand, is a movie, game or piece of music is intertainment, it's not the actual physical cd you are buying/ pirating, its the intertainment in the above categories, you are getting.
If you watch a movie, you are intertaint, it dosent matter if you didn't like it, you should still pay for the intertaintment and the hard work of those who made that intertainment.

reply to post by Kratos1220


You are dead wrong about touring. Not every band ever GOES on a tour. Costs are phenomonal-hotels, gas, buses, flights, no shows at clubs, venues, etc, etc...and insurance for all band memebers and crew. Food. You really have no clue.

Guess what? The money goes to the Copyright-writer-owner, some goes to the publisher, some goes to band members but very, very, very little

Here is a sample of royalty payments last year for a friend I have. These are for SOLD units. Either song for song, or album (CD)

1st quarter-Asia, Us, Uk and Europe - 161 units $ 370.00 (aprox) TOTAL for everyone with rights by contract.

2nd quarter-Australia, Netherlands (Iceland, Greenland, Holland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden)
over 1500 units $11,000 aprox (total) mostly for copyright owner and publisher.

To be used in one movie we've all seen -1 song $20,000 (ACTUAL AMOUNT) for the owner and publisher only.

To be in a TV series we all watch and now on DVD-$5,600 (ACTUAL) and NOTHING from the DVD sales. Owner and publisher only again.

Anything not sold, and youre screwing the band for any money they could get. Forget touring. Costs are astronmical, and the average 1-hit wonder bands usually lose more than they make even if they tour...and soemtimes thats never or once....and youre stealing their songs without paying.

And they may never again have another "hit"...so they go the Starbucks to work.

Look up the definition of PIRACY. There you go.

Originally posted by AlertInMi
I think you and I have had a conversation about this before.....


If you make piracy legal, the quality of product and or services will go down hill fast.

If software was free, do you think we would have windows 7?

"Bands just do it for the music" BS they do it for the money and fame!

Anyone who thinks that piracy should be legal is obviously not well versed in business.

Inventor$ - 90% invent for profit, Mu$ician$ - like the money .... Only to have some grubby little POS, steal it on the net...

FACT: anyone that believes in "legal piracy" DOES NOT have something on the internet for sale.

The fact that I was only the 2nd person to star this post tells me SO much about the amount of intelligence circling these boards.

If you want to know what it would do to all industries to remove payment, go check out some self-published books. That's what everything would look like - music, software, publishing - it would look and sound like someone's untalented ten year old did it.

No thanks. I'm happy to pay for the result of someone else's hard work & talent. And if I am talented and do something really great, I want to be rewarded for it, too.

reply to post by byteshertz


I think they need to treat intellectual property like patents. That way there is direct incentive to create new and different content.

reply to post by byteshertz


This is typical communist thought; Assuming humans selfishly do things communally with no incentive. Nobody would pay for your creation, they'd just view it for free and/or steal it and claim it as their own.

You expect that film-makers, artists and musicians will blindly create (not to mention the cost of creating) with no benefit or means of income?

The first time i started freelancing i just couldn't afford Photoshop. I couldn't even understand how anyone in their right mind would pay that much for a piece of software. When i started making enough money i bought it.
I think its only fair to pay for what you use in your business.

Nowadays I'm doing some music production with Ableton live and im having much fun doing it. But since im not making any money from music i won't buy the software (which is pretty expensive). Same thing with VST's (virtual instruments). Some of them cost a fortune.

I'm a professional DJ as well. Most of my friends leech all kinds of music from the net for free. All of the DJ's i know buy music. Because we're making money because of that music. And of course because you usualy can't get the latest music for free.

I hope you get my point.

Madness, Piracy is piracy, by the term its illegal.

I myself have to admit that back in the early 80's I was by work deeply in the computer software business, I hacked and cracked games willy nilly but I had no mental misconceptions that I was doing anything else than wrong, I was just caught up in the 'look what I've learned' phase.

I've seen hundreds of arguments about piracy but at the end none of them help the poor game developer at the very end of the chain, the big old days of the 80's and 90's where obscene amounts of cash were wasted on parties, drugs, booze and jaunts for the jurno's are gone, the dev at the bottom of the pile either makes some money or crashes out of the market.

Film wise, yes you would wipe that smug grin off Michael Bay's face BUT all the people he employs to make those hits would be affected seriously.

Sorry, but if you want to affect the seriously out of the world prices then just don't buy the games / films, that hits the greedy marketing people and trust me, the price would drop, the core of people who buy would still buy but get a better deal and it all trundles along.

Just copying the stuff and never buying affects the whole tree in the end, quality fades, big blockbusters spend less, a serious trim on action fests etc etc.

I don't use the cinema theatres, I simply by depression cannot stand the mass of people and some of their habits (I could write a book on those) BUT I buy films I like and watch them at home on home cinema.

In the end if you don't pay there maybe nothing to buy at some point...Or certainly of much poorer quality...