Income Disparity in America - Shocking!

I was reading about the OWS Movement in New York and all of the recent drama with the Police, Mayor Bloomberg and the Judge who allowed the Movement to continue to camp in the Park when someone in the comments section had suggested googling "graph of income disparity" to get an idea of how serious the problems OWS are protesting about.

Being the Deny Ignorance kind of guy I am, I decided to do so. I have to say that right now, I am quite shocked. The data I'm about to link and some of the charts here are just...well...they speak for themselves.
Also, for the skeptical, the data represented on the following charts have PDF links to the original study by the source on the website if you want to dig in deeper and see how they computed these charts.

*Note some of the images are very large so I put their thumbnail in place. Didn't have time to resize everything.

Source on MotherJones.com

First, I thought this was the most shocking:

How Rich Are the Superrich? A huge share of the nation's economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244. Note: The 2007 data (the most current) doesn't reflect the impact of the housing market crash. In 2007, the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes. The top 1%, in contrast, had just 10%. The housing crisis has no doubt further swelled the share of total net worth held by the superrich.

Winners Take All - The superrich have grabbed the bulk of the past three decades' gains.

Capitol Gain - Why Washington is closer to Wall Street than Main Street.

This right here really shocked me. They are supposed to be public servants! Who's really serving who here?

And last but not least:

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR GAINS - Productivity has surged, but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans. If the median household income had kept pace with the economy since 1970, it would now be nearly $92,000, not $50,000.

The question I find myself asking is - "What happened to the Middle Class?"
It's shocking to me to find that the Income Disparity of Americans is so wide. There really is a 1% and then the rest of us. As an active duty service member, United States Navy for 12 years now, I can't believe it is this awful!
I have served my country faithfully for over a decade, and if I choose to enjoy the freedoms I have fought to defend this is what I have to look forward to? This isn't the American Dream I was told about.

I'm not asking for Handouts - I'm asking for a fair shot. A medium ground were hardwork and determination would set you up nice. Now, if you don't make atleast 163k a year, your STILL considered in the bottom 90%. UNREAL.
Something needs to be done!

Solutions? Discuss.

start your own company if you dont like the wages.

Well, I'm not shocked. Since our government allowed our jobs to go overseas, and allowed illegal workers in to force wages down, it's a wonder any of us can afford anything. I see young people and wonder how the hell they make it. My wife and I make just over $100k, and we don't have alot to spare. With taxes, a house payment, utilities and groceries, there ain't much left over. And I am not in debt other than my house. Credit cards carry $0 balance, only used in an emergency. Yet some months it's hard to stretch paychecks. For those of us "lucky" enough to have a job, we are getting killed.

Taxes are about $30%
Health insurance $25%
that's 55% of my pay before I even get my check. And people wonder why I despise government welfare programs. When the biggest portion of my check goes to them, I really have a hard time having sympathy!

reply to post by zeeon


ideas? Uh.. Kerosene?

Originally posted by camaro68ss
start your own company if you dont like the wages.

Way to miss the point entirely!!

It is no secret that our Politicians are in bed with the Corporations, our Corporations are in bed with Wall Street. Everywhere you turn it is all about lining your pockets and making more money. Just look at the net wealth of our elected Officials. It does not seem odd to anyone that during the financial crisis the networth of Congress increased by over 20%?

I agree that is seems shocking how much money those top earners are making.

HOWEVER, I don't think that there is any way to make everything "fair". It's impossible. "Fair" does not exist.

Solutions SEEM easy, but they ALL have consequences:

*How about raise the minimum wage so everyone has a chance to earn more?
Sounds great in theory, but if that were to happen, we would all have to pay more for things. So we are making more money, but now things cost more. That's not helpful.

*Let's set income caps. No one can earn above X amount.
Also sounds more "fair", doesn't it? But who is going to decide how much is too much? The government? Do you want the government telling you how much you can earn?

*Let's tax the top earners a LOT more...they don't "need" that much money.
Again, who is going to decide how much someone "needs"? I don't want the government deciding that.

These solutions all lead down the road toward Communism, and we see from history that road is NOT one we want to be on.

I don't want to take ANY path that involves "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". What happens is that the top producers stop producing so much. That's not good for anyone. Without the possibility of a big reward, what's the point in taking a big risk? Innovation is stagnated.

This story illustrates what I'm talking about. I know it is of the "urban legend" variety, but it really makes sense to me based upon what I know of human nature:

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single
student, but had once failed an entire class.

The class (students) insisted that socialism worked since no one would be
poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said,
"OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism."

"All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so
no one will fail and no one will receive an A."

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The
students who had studied hard were upset while the students who had
studied very little were happy.

But, as the second test rolled around, the students who had studied little
studied even less and the ones who had studied hard decided that since
they couldn't make an A, they also studied less. The second Test average
was a D.

No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average grade was an
F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling, all resulted
in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else.

To their great surprise all failed. The professor told them that socialism
would ultimately fail because the harder people try to succeed the greater
their reward (capitalism) but when a government takes all the reward
away (socialism) no one will try or succeed.

message.snopes.com...

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by camaro68ss
start your own company if you dont like the wages.

Way to miss the point entirely!!

It is no secret that our Politicians are in bed with the Corporations, our Corporations are in bed with Wall Street. Everywhere you turn it is all about lining your pockets and making more money. Just look at the net wealth of our elected Officials. It does not seem odd to anyone that during the financial crisis the networth of Congress increased by over 20%?

well fire then, get new people in there.

But here's the problem.

The sheeple are so dumb in america, this will never happen. We need a paradime change, a collapse of the markets and systems to restart EVERYTHING.

The point here is the disparity between the Super Rich and the average joe. Sure, there is ALWAYS going to be disparity between the Upper limit and the Lower Limit - there should be something in between, but now it's basically gone. Thats all there is - the Max and the Min. There is no more Middle Class where if you work hard, you can live comfortably.

Yeah, we can live decent on 50k a year. But comparetively speaking, why do we have to scrape by when the top 1% enjoy's ALL the luxuries of life. It's crazy! Furthermore, if you are determined, hard working and want to succeed good luck to you breaking through the rest of the 99% to get to that 1%. Because the odds are stacked against you and opportunity is almost non-existant!

Most of citizens are more then content living a middle class lifestyle. I firmly believe that. Right now, to be considered middle class, I'm guessing you'd have to make somewhere around the 500k annual range given the disparity charts. Think about what you could do with that kind of money!

Except practically nobody has it.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by camaro68ss
start your own company if you dont like the wages.

Way to miss the point entirely!!

It is no secret that our Politicians are in bed with the Corporations, our Corporations are in bed with Wall Street. Everywhere you turn it is all about lining your pockets and making more money. Just look at the net wealth of our elected Officials. It does not seem odd to anyone that during the financial crisis the networth of Congress increased by over 20%?

Occupy the Voting Booth

reply to post by MrWendal


No surprise. The guy in charge of trying to stave off the recession was buying options that bet against the economy. Several officials bought these options. They got rich off of our misery.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
start your own company if you dont like the wages.

What, so he can employ his own team of slaves and keep most of the profit for himself? Capitalistic business is stupid, it's the whole problem imo. The people at the top (shareholders) take everything and hand out the minimum possible amount they can to their employees (the people actually doing all the work). Yes, capitalism does offer the opportunity for some people to be mega-rich...but do you know what the consequence of that is? In order for a small amount of people to enjoy exceptionally high wages, the majority of people must accept exceptionally meager earnings.

This picture nicely shows global income disparities. As you can see, disparity in the US is similar to those in China or Argentina, and is somewhere on the higher end of a spectrum:

reply to post by Maslo


I wouldn't use that image. It states 2009, but most of the GINI numbers are from 2000 (average ranging from 1994 to 2006).

The situation is actually worse in most countries than that image would imply.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by camaro68ss
start your own company if you dont like the wages.

What, so he can employ his own team of slaves and keep most of the profit for himself? Capitalistic business is stupid, it's the whole problem imo. The people at the top (shareholders) take everything and hand out the minimum possible amount they can to their employees (the people actually doing all the work). Yes, capitalism does offer the opportunity for some people to be mega-rich...but do you know what the consequence of that is? In order for a small amount of people to enjoy exceptionally high wages, the majority of people must accept exceptionally meager earnings.

your so ignorant of business it’s not even funny. haha, his own team of slaves. Those slaves you are referring to have a choice to work for him or not. your view of capitalism is wrong. We have not had capitalism in this country since FDR raped this country of its freedoms and over stepped the powers of government. Everything wrong today can be traced back to him.

Shareholders gamble and dump there money into a company to get a return. Yes they should make out on the winnings. its there money. if your "slaves" dont want to work for the wages then leave.

If you want fair wages, move to china, i hear Communism is a gas

As of 2006, the United States had one of the highest levels of income inequality, as measured through the Gini index, among high income countries, comparable to that of some middle income countries such as Russia or Turkey,[8] being one of only a few developed countries where inequality has increased since 1980.[9] A CBO study in 2011 found that the top 1% gained the most (about 275%) in the period between 1979 and 2007, and all lower quintiles lost their share of national income.[10]
--
The distribution of income in the United States is becoming increasingly unequal. In 2010, the top 20% of Americans earned 49.4% of the nation’s income, compared with the 3.4% earned by Americans living below the poverty line (roughly 15% of the population). This earnings ratio of 14.5 to 1 was an increase from the 13.6 to 1 ratio in 2008 and a significant rise from the historic low of 7.69 to 1 in 1968.[14] Looking back even further to 1915, an era in which the Rockefellers and Carnegies dominated American industry, the richest 1% of Americans earned roughly 18% of all income. Today, the top 1% account for 24% of all income.[15]

Income inequality in the United States

Various sociological statistics suggest the severity of wealth inequality "with the top 10% possessing 80% of all financial assets [and] the bottom 90% holding only 20% of all financial wealth."[3] Although different from income inequality, the two are often interrelated.

Wealth inequality in the United States

the trouble is:

whatever you do in changing the situation...
once it has changed, those people you tend to call the elite will no more get that much profite from their investments and invest their money in a different country.
Investments in this case means industry/companies/business.

once the factory works on foreign soil, you are no more the one being on their payroll, cause they relocated the factory and not you.

jobs gone and thats it .. and if its not you, than its your neighbour.

theres no known mechanism which would stop this income issue from what i know of in an elegant, fast and ultimate way, except a full scale civil war, but thats not within the options.

the only chance for you as to be the one on the lower end of the food chain is, to be smarter and develop a specific conciousness where the money goes you're spending.

if an article in the supermarket is labeled 'made in china' you can guess it'll not improve the situation.
have you considered rejecting to buy it ?
have you ever done that ?

if everybody would do that and think twice before buying, you do something which is more powerful than your vote for the next election.

You actually vote inside your supermarket !,
..and with doing so, you are a powerful figure in this disaster, because YOU decide, with YOUR money.

think about



so whatever 'occupy-This-And-That' cause, they might get smiled at.
once you all gain a specific conciousness where all your small ammounts of money end, YOU are the one who smiles about THEM.

word !

reply to post by camaro68ss
oh that is a good one, 2 years with out steady work now I make 7.25 per Hour @ 16 hours a week, still look for full time work, no such luck, now How Am I to Start Up A Company???????? I Cant Even Afford The Rent

Originally posted by zeeon
...there should be something in between, but now it's basically gone. Thats all there is - the Max and the Min. There is no more Middle Class...

This is what struck me the most from the OP's presented data. For years we have been hearing that the middle class would be lost. The realization, presented in cold hard data, that it has actually happened hits me hard. When did it happen?

reply to post by camaro68ss

Shareholders gamble and dump there money into a company to get a return. Yes they should make out on the winnings. its there money. if your "slaves" dont want to work for the wages then leave.

See that's the exact problem, people think that just because they initially 'gambled' on the success of the business, they have the right to deal with the profit however they like. And perhaps they should have that right, but maybe they should be more concerned about the health of all their employees and the business as a whole, rather than their own personal income. It's all about maximizing profit to shareholders, and employees are nothing but business assets, and businesses like to minimize costs. The less they can pay employees, the happier the business is.

There are very few businesses who take pride in treating their employees as truly equal members of the business. Even if I risk my own personal wealth to start my own company, I would pay my employees fairly based on the complexity of their work and how well they do it. It's not communism, it's called fairness. That concept may seem completely foreign to you because it doesn't revolve around greed. But here is a thread I wrote on this concept of fair wages according to employee contributions: Contribution Factor Theory.

reply to post by zeeon
The real issue should be how many make less the $30,000 a year and have kids have fun with that one the only thing i found was this , and then it says.. well just take a look this makes me sick www.good.is... from the link

New data released by the U.S. Census today found that 14 percent of Americans live below the poverty line. This is the highest percentage of poor people in America since 1994. But as the chart above shows, that 14 percent represents 43.6 million Americans, the largest total number of Americans living below the poverty line ever.

my Girl Friend makes $10 per Hour @ 20 hours a week min together we barely get by, but we do i make $7.25 per Hour @ 16 hours a week you do the math, oh no paid holidays sick leave, health plans. no kids.