Just as UFO sightings, Do you think 5-10% of Ufology is actually legitiment?

Whereas I do believe that the larger percentage of sightings can be explained there is always the smaller percentage that are open to question.
But what are they? ET's? Secret Military experiments? Time-travelling machines?
Until one is actually brought down they will remain speculative.

reply to post by game over man
I think everything is eventually explainable if we had the knowledge to do so. Scientists are content to accept that there are many things and phenomena in the Universe they can't explain.

In 'ufology,' it should also be the same - so we don't know all the answers? Keep looking and avoid jumping to conclusions.

Where people often go wrong is being uncomfortable with the unknown - they feel an urge to explain things as planet Venus or visiting Andromedans. Wild and complex nonsense is weaved from thin air to account for something non-repeatable and impossible (at this time) to test.

Over 60 years, the CIA, USAF, US Army, UK MOD, French CNES (space agency), international scientists and dozens of UFO organisations have failed in their attempts to identify the causes of a small residue of sightings reports. They've tried hard and continue to try hard; some are full of BS and others take a more conservative approach. The conclusions of most studies since 1947 have been that there are unknown phenomena that don't bear scientific study and pose no threat to National Security.

I think this indicates that some unknown percentage of sightings reports, radar cases and so forth are legitimately unidentified in accordance with our best knowledge at this time. We can speculate to our heart's content about what the 'unknowns' might be, but we just don't know and will have to live with it.

Roswell was explained.A good portion of an entire town saw aliens and an alien craft.I cant believe you havent heard about this.

Originally posted by DaveNorris
ok, i dont wanna trash your thread but,
Roswell
Ancient Aliens
Crop Circles etc
have not been debunked, some theories that dont involve ETs have been put forward but are no more proven/disproven than those theories that do.

i think that you gotten confused somewere in your research the '5-10% un-explained' statistic is only reprosentative of UFO pictures and videos. and not UFO encounters as a whole

Your post is not trashing my thread, the 10 or so off topic posts edited by the moderators and left there to scroll through, is annoying and ruined the thread. Your input is valued.

I put certain cult Ufology subjects in my OP to start up a debate, and left some out on purpose for others to contribute. Thank you for your positive participation.

Originally posted by game over man
I believe about 95% of Ufology can be explained. Possibly 100%.

Betty and Barney Hill Abduction

Watched the interview? There is no explanation other than the pseudoskeptical one making all sorts of excuses, dreams, hallucinations.. REMAINS UNKNOWN, DEBUNKING FAILED

Dulce Base Underground War

REMAINS UNKNOWN

Alien Implants

REMAINS UNKNOWN

Roswell

Declassified, firstly balloons, then the bodies were called chimp bodies, dummies, how many times we're gonna change it? REMAINS UNKNOWN, DEBUNKING FAILED

Ancient Aliens

Debunked really? Based on what makes PSEUDOskeptics think it could not be true? Because their supporters make the mistake to claim it as a fact, yet it is possible, you think it is not because Artists drawing, hallucination, dreams, myths folklore? REMAINS UNKNOWN, DEBUNKING FAILED

Crop Circles

While some could be man made, no one can explain who made them, that's why it is a commonly accepted mystery, REMAINS UNKNOWN, DEBUNKING FAILED

So I ask, if Ufology on a whole is complete rubbish, then how can you explain the 5-10% solid cases of UFO sightings?

REMAINS UNKNOWN, that's how.

Rubbish is only the ignorance of all that is existing to think that NOTHING is going all and all absolutely all is someone's idea of a joke

Originally posted by brindle
Roswell was explained.A good portion of an entire town saw aliens and an alien craft.I cant believe you havent heard about this.

What I stated in the OP was to encourage a debate. Actually if you follow along with the current investigation on Roswell, you will see overtime the alien story is just a tall tale.

But this does not mean people don't see UFO's. This is my point to the thread, 5-10% of UFO sightings remain unknown or unexplained, can the same be said for Ufology as a whole?

Yes, I am saying there is a difference between UFO sightings and cult cases from Ufology. For the sake of my thread, they are two separate subjects.

reply to post by Kandinsky


I agree some sightings remain unknown and we should speculate as to what these UFO's could be. Ufology seems to have the answers, but is 95% of Ufology made up? Is there a 5% truth to alien encounters as Ufology claims? Such as 54 different species of ET visiting Earth?

reply to post by Imtor


Betty and Barney Hill, debunked by Carl Sagan.

Dulce Base Underground War, provide some evidence or insight please, otherwise it's just a story.

Alien Implants, that would be the smoking gun of all time. But Dr Roger Leir is trying to swindle people for money. Look him up on ATS the guy is a joke.

Roswell, sorry but overtime it's going to be a joke too. Roswell is a great case, but where is the cold hard facts. Someone on ATS made a great a point recently, I believe in Ross54's thread, if the metal recovered at the site is indestructible, then why was it spread out for miles in tiny pieces? Supposedly a claim is the death ray by Telsa was being transported over to California, saw the UFO and shot it down. There were also other sightings at that time in the US. How come you didn't mention anything like that, you just wrote in CAPS LOCK, debunked.

Crop circles, send me a link to a legitimate crop circle please. Who in mainstream science respects Crop Circle cases? Please no "scientists" in Ufology either, I'm talking real scientists. Most Ufology investigators make up their background all the time. What crop circle case would you present to a scientist?

So you missed my last question if Ufology is a joke, then what are these UFO's? Yes UNKNOWN, thanks for the caps lock again, that was fun. What do you think they are? Do you have an opinion? Is your opinion shaped by the rubbish from Ufology?

reply to post by game over man
I don't really subscribe to the 'overall' percentages thrown around by most folk.

Project Grudge and Blue Book Report 14 offered different % but maintained a core of reports that they were unable to explain. Bearing in mind that both exercises weren't above attributing nonsense explanations - it makes their inability to explain some of them all the more significant.

Let's say, for sake of argument, that is a 5% core figure of unknowns? Some of them are lacking evidence/details and would whittle away the 5% to a smaller figure. At the same time, ball lightning is an unknown quantity and probably accounted for some of the residue too. Unidentified hoaxes would likely be a factor and the number value decreases again.

Our 5% becomes < 5%

Within this 'less than 5%' are some well-documented and unidentified sightings that still defy explanation despite the progress of knowledge and technology. 0.5% maybe?

Regarding the Barney and Betty Hill case? 'Debunked' is a matter of conviction and opinion. I've read the books, heard the interviews and listened to the hypnosis tapes. I've also read Kottmeyer and Sagan's explanations and made the effort to read as many explanations as possible. For my money, the case remains unexplained and not at all debunked.

Betty and barney hill was a clear hoax.Betty said she had no ill feelings towards the aliens and was at peace with them.Barney said he was terrified and they were nazis.Betty and barneys stories were completely different.

The importance of the Betty and Barney Hill Case was that the aliens originated from Zeta Retucli and that is a big part of Ufology. Carl Sagan debunked their star map from the case.

reply to post by game over man


I do not see ANY ATS members mentioned in your OP. Do you think that because we are part of a CT forum that we have no credibility?

I for one cannot speak to the truth of any of the people mentioned in the OP but can say without any doubt everything I have claimed on this forum has been 100% truth.

One of the things that get me as for your choices of credible witnesses is that just because they were chosen by the msm to represent their claims, does not mean that they are true or accurate. There has been a mighty spin on the whole situation imo, one that only validates if the story is inline with the agenda of how people are to understand the phenomena.

Edit to say that it really irks me to no end when an individual has an experience and then goes on to become a foremost expert int he field obviously embellishing on their story to come out like a chosen one with all the answers.

From a single experience they like to propose that they have it all figured out. That the ET have found them worthy of knowing more than anyone else and have showered them with knowledge no other person has.

They end up in the same place as the hoaxers in the end, giving talks as experts when they in fact are just newbs in the grand scheme of things and no no more than anyone else.

Pieces of the puzzle no more no less.

Until the day comes that humanity as a whole makes choices which reflect a state of higher development, there will be individuals chosen to bring forth small pieces of the tapestry which leads to an intergalactic interdependence with our off world/dimensional friends and enemies.

No, None , Zero % has been proven to be legitimate, however there is a small percentage that
remain unexplained.

reply to post by Kandinsky


I actually do agree the 5-10% statistic could be a lot less now. That statistic came out years ago with J Allen Hynek, and with the amount of UFO sightings since then, that number has to be a lot smaller. 5% of 100 sightings is 5 sightings. How many annual sightings are reported at MUFON?

Say there are 10,000 UFO sightings worldwide a year, and 5% remain unknown, that is 500 unknown flying objects a year. Way too many. Seems unrealistic. Then again how do we know there aren't UFO's buzzing over the Middle East for the past 10 years?

Project Blue Book was government operated by the US Air Force, and I'm guessing most cases were turned in by different branches of the military and not so much civilian based. Whereas MUFON is all civilian sightings.

reply to post by antar


This was not a jab at ATS members, not at all. If you want to educate, and contribute something that I've left out, please do so. If you're talking about the different mythical aliens that visit us, whom ATS contactees have experienced through channeling, then I'm sorry.

If you're talking about ATS members who support AAT, I enjoy those threads however I think Ancient Art in the Ancient Alien theory has been debunked. I don't think you can really reinterpret ancient scriptures or religious books as describing flesh and blood aliens as aside from the stories being metaphors for the religion itself. Finally I think currently there is a major effort to accurately explain how the ancient structures were built.

It won't be too long before the Ancient Alien Theory is toast, if not already. What is reasonable is the missing link, or was life seeding on Earth by aliens, however people use the Ancient Alien Theory to prove so, and currently the AAT is getting debunked pretty good.

reply to post by antar


Very interesting insight, star. You bring up a point where the "credible" accounts in Ufology have one encounter that changes their life and they want to tell the world, however lots of alien abductees claim they are abducted multiple times. Where is the truth?

Originally posted by game over man
reply to post by Imtor

 

Betty and Barney Hill, debunked by Carl Sagan.

Dulce Base Underground War, provide some evidence or insight please, otherwise it's just a story.

Alien Implants, that would be the smoking gun of all time. But Dr Roger Leir is trying to swindle people for money. Look him up on ATS the guy is a joke.

Roswell, sorry but overtime it's going to be a joke too. Roswell is a great case, but where is the cold hard facts. Someone on ATS made a great a point recently, I believe in Ross54's thread, if the metal recovered at the site is indestructible, then why was it spread out for miles in tiny pieces? Supposedly a claim is the death ray by Telsa was being transported over to California, saw the UFO and shot it down. There were also other sightings at that time in the US. How come you didn't mention anything like that, you just wrote in CAPS LOCK, debunked.

Crop circles, send me a link to a legitimate crop circle please. Who in mainstream science respects Crop Circle cases? Please no "scientists" in Ufology either, I'm talking real scientists. Most Ufology investigators make up their background all the time. What crop circle case would you present to a scientist?

So you missed my last question if Ufology is a joke, then what are these UFO's? Yes UNKNOWN, thanks for the caps lock again, that was fun. What do you think they are? Do you have an opinion? Is your opinion shaped by the rubbish from Ufology?

edit on 13-11-2011 by game over man because: (no reason given)

I never believed Betty & barney Hill cases fully, in fact - any abductions but they remain probable, mostly because they have been tested under hypnosis and i'm not sure, others also talk about this Reticulum constellation (anonymous employess who were asked where these ETs they've seen in DUMBs come from) - which also brings the case of Dulce LAB/Base far from debunking.

Rosewell - could be, I dont know what to think of this case, so much controversy that I dont even want to bother

Crop Circles - you cant make perfect crop circles with a truck, not to say you need a camera or screen frm above showing you how you're doing it from the air.

Crop Circles from the air - well, what, a helicopter was making maneauvers in circle to make circles, or a plane? Ok a special device that does it - sure then it has to be an unknown, could be human could be not, why so sure it is?

There is evidence, there is science but it is all supressed, no one will talk about it openly, the same goes for UFO. It is the cry of everyone to know what UFOs are, what's with ET talking by former agents, but it is all classified, you cannot get hard evidence like that but that does not mean it doesnt exist and can be debunked because see - some info does slip off the secrecy

My thinking is if there is a greater than 0% of truly unknown, then there is something out there. Whether its us (mankind) or not is the real question. (After we get rid of the way too many hoaxes out there)

How has the Ancient Alient theory been debunked? It's just a theory that many of the gods of old were really just misunderstood extraterrestrial beings. There's really no way to debunk such a theory. Some might find it ludicrous but there is no way to debunk it.

Also I'm not sure Betty and Barney Hill were debunked either. Just because one felt tremendous fear and the other felt oddly calm doesn't mean they were lying. That doesn't make sense. If I were abducted I like to think I'd feel pretty good about it. It would give me the satisfaction of finally knowing the truth and I would be able to learn some things from them. If my sister were abducted she would probably make a mess in her pants.

Many of the things you listed have not been debunked. I do agree with you though that probably only 5% of UFO sightings are legit. It's probably even less. The reason I say this is because I feel the government is the one developing new aircraft. Aliens probably aren't doing test runs these days. If they can travel from galaxy to galaxy they don't need to develop new vehicles. Plus I feel they wouldn't need to have lights on while traveling, unless they want to be seen.