Jesus With a Crystal Ball?

Originally posted by mileysubet
Does anyone here know the significince of the hand gestures being used?

Both the hand holding the orb (Left hand) and the upraised hand (Right Hand) seem to be held in a manner suggesting a meaning, I looked through the Buddhist Mudras and although a few where similar could not find an exact match.

Do you mean this?
Latin gesture of benediction.
www.newliturgicalmovement.org...

Some notes on the affiliation of da Vince to religion:

...it [is] possible that Leonardo did indeed deliberately record his thoughts in such a way that they would be indecipherable to any but those so determined to understand them as to be willing to devote long hours to the process. Vasari wrote that [Leonardo] had been a heretic, and more a philosopher than a Christian; some must have thought him a crypto-atheist; not a few of his notions were far from those of the Church [at that time]. This is the man, it will be recalled, who wrote, long before Galileo was accused, "The sun does not move." And this is the man who also saw evidence everywhere, whether in the form of fossils, rock formations, or the movements of water, of the great age of the earth and of the constantly changing character of its geologic and living forms.

www.adherents.com...

A quote from an essay of his:

"It seems to me that all studies are vain and full of errors unless they are based on experience and can be tested by experiment, in other words, they can be demonstrated to our senses. For if we are doubtful of what our senses perceive then how much more doubtful should we be of things that our senses cannot perceive, like the nature of God and the soul and other such things over which there are endless disputes and controversies."

"Wherever there is no true science and no certainty of knowledge, there will be conflicting speculations and quarrels. However, whenever things are proven by scientific demonstration and known for certain, then all quarreling will cease. And if controversy should ever arise again, then our first conclusions must have been questionable

www.deism.com...

Interesting take, considering his constant dependancy on the Vatican for his daily bread and butter. No matter what amazing work of his we consider, it always comes back to science and the natural laws he is most obviously and completely devoted to.

I'm satisfied now... the crystal ball has been sufficiently explained away thanks to Pauligirl's input here, but I can't shake the feeling that something else will eventually be found in this painting which sparks more controversy, whether it is in the clothing, some dim feature of the dark background or the twinkle in the left eye of Jesus.

That, after all, is a constant with da Vinci.

Somebody that plays Assassin's Creed might confuse it for a Piece of Eden.

Is the possibility there that this person wasn't supposed to be Jesus? I do not know, so I thought I would ask. Maybe he is holding a big soap bubble, or an unfinished snow globe. If this is Jesus holding a crystal ball, and was painted by Da Vinci, I would suspect the meaning may run deeper than first meets the eye.

The way I see it there are a couple of different ways you could interpret this picture, and one of them is not so blasphemous, and the other reason being what I am assuming is where some controversy may lie. Either way, it is a pretty good painting.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


John the Baptist keeps screaming at me from the aether.

reply to post by masqua


www.italian-renaissance-art.com...
Is this a different Salvator Mundi painting by Leonardo?

Salvator Mundi. Jan Louis de Ganay collection Paris.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by mileysubet
Does anyone here know the significince of the hand gestures being used?

Both the hand holding the orb (Left hand) and the upraised hand (Right Hand) seem to be held in a manner suggesting a meaning, I looked through the Buddhist Mudras and although a few where similar could not find an exact match.

Do you mean this?
Latin gesture of benediction.
www.newliturgicalmovement.org...

Thank you very much for the link, it seems I was looking in the wrong direction.

Just noticed something else interesting about OP's posted art, this portrayal of "Jesus" has no halo, as most works portraying Jesus do. that could be significant in proving that it is indeed not a portrayal of Jesus.

Look,

(Mods, I understand if you have to remove this rant), but...

Is that all you got ATS? The OP brings a nice juicy Art mystery to us for dissection and this is it? I am really disappointed. I dunno, maybe there are just too many exciting things going on right now and the Holy Blood, Holy Grail stuff is just not compelling enough. Is that it?

For God's sake people, GLP is probably going to get to this before us now. Yep, we will be reading about the breakdown somewhere else and someone will inevitably start a thread about it here so we can read about it after the fact.

So. What's the deal, my fellow 'conspiracy in religion' buffs? Is that all you really have to bring to bear on this? Even my girlfriend who is barely interested in this stuff and only wanted to see the new 'Da Vinci Jesus Painting' noticed that Jesus is sporting a Décolletage (en.wikipedia.org...) and when I told her about the fact that Jesus is wearing His Mom's colors she said, "Eww, I don't like that".

But you all just scritch your heads.

So there is my rant, you lazy unfun bastards.

I hearby declare myself Lord, God and master of all things Holy Blood, Holy Grail, until Someone comes along and sets me straight on my musings around the painting or I start to see some enthusiasm.

It doesn't matter if we are right or wrong about it. It's about the fun. Folks like us (you and me) have been breaking this type of thing (paintings, literature) down for a long time and there is a way to go about it. A couple of members (FoxMulder147, PauliGirl) got a good start and then it went nowhere.

What gives ATS? I though we were into this stuff.





P.S. Let's get Plantard and the Merovingians off the table. We know that Plantard's whole schtick was a hoax. I think we can safely remove any connection between the 'crystal ball' and Merovingians and Plantads' hoaxed 'Priory of Sion".

John the Baptist keeps screaming at me from the aether.

Considering who we are dealing with I think this is probably where it is gonna go.

Yeah, we are losing the foot race. But not to GLP...

www.3pipe.net...

Platonic receptacles, Leonardo and the Salvator Mundi
by H NIYAZI · JULY 18, 2011

Many readers have requested I present a summary of the iconographic and provenance details of the newly attributed Leonardo piece depicting Christ as Salvator Mundi.

This post summarises a possible interpretation of the iconography, and lists the presently available information on provenance. A future publication by Yale University Press, The Lost Christ of Leonardo da Vinci promises the fullest possible detail, due in the latter part of 2011.

From an iconographical perspective, a Salvator Mundi depiction is complete when it includes the symbol of blessing and a representation of an orb, representing dominion over heaven and earth. A symbol of Christ offering blessing without an indication of a globe or orb is more accurately described as pax vobiscum, the act of blessing meaning "peace be unto you".

The use of hand gestures giving blessing is an ancient motif in art. This particular gesture of the fingers is known as the mano pantea, which predates Christianity and can be seen in Pagan motifs to ward off evil eye, and Ancient Egyptian artifacts invoking parental protection.

Leonardo's orb is neither a map of the earth, nor emblazoned with a crucifix. Observers have linked the appearance of this feature in Salvator Mundi as a demonstration of Leonardo's fascination with optics, and the depiction of translucent elements in paint. This is part of the answer. An awareness of Leonardo's familiarity with Plato's Timaeus is perhaps the key to understanding its full meaning.

In Timaeus, Plato's dialogue proposes that the structure of the entire universe is contained within a sphere, which is devoid of features, perfectly invisible and formless as befitting a concept of divine creation

You will want to go to the full article because there is a very useful timeline. The author of this analysis still will not touch the color of Jesus' garments although he does so in a cursory way, he does not touch on the symbolism. Christ, in this Salvator, wears the colors of the 'vault of heaven' as his Mother should. It is not totally unique but is notable. It may simply present Christ as the "Lord of Heaven' as he would be seen post-resurrection.

But there is a feature of Leonardo's painting that is unique amongst Salvators...





Looks like at the very least the 'jewels' are missing. But to me it looks like Jesus has some type of door lock on his chest. I went to look for example of renaissance door locks, Found plenty of padlocks and some German door locks. None are dead on so it is just guess work on my part.

reply to post by Frater210


Call Me crazy, but if you take the "manly" figures out of that painting, I can see Mona Lisa

Could it be a retrospective explanation for Diabolical Mimicry?

reply to post by DuShane


Thanks for that. I completely agree with you. It is so close that it really begs the question; was Da Vinci painting himself, as a woman, dressed as a man?

?

It is so odd that these specifically gnostic relics make their appearance at this point in history..

one wonders whether they were kept away in a Vatican vault to be released at just the right time....

reply to post by dontreally


Hey, Man!

Do you think that Da Vinci was a Gnostic? I know he was a neo-Platonist so it probably would not be such a huge stretch to think that he made the same error as the Gnostics concerning the characterization of the Dynamis as the Demiurgos.

But I agree, the timing for the release of these types of things always makes me suspicious whether I have a good reason to be or not; I am just wired like that. I have been mistaken so many times that I have learned to tread cautiously

reply to post by Frater210


What about the fact that Jesus is wearing a females dress??? Wouldn't this allude to the whole Androgynous fascination of Neo-platonism/Gnosticism?

Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by Evolutionsend

 

More like he was alluding to John the Baptist instead of Jesus, in my thinking.

But, honestly... how would the Vatican have taken occultism such as gazing into crystal balls back in those days? If there's any tool which has stood the test of time as related to witchcraft, it's gotta be a crystal ball.

Am I wrong in thinking that?

My friend, Vatican City, Rome, the Pope, the entire Catholic Church is built on occultism.

Many of the early church fathers were noted practitinoers of Scrying (Crystal ball viewers), Alchemy, Necromancy, and other forms of occult teachings.

There are more secret societies (Brotherhoods) under the Catholic umbrella than any other entity in the world.

Occult means "hidden".

Look at any Catholic Cathedral, any Mosque, any Temple and you will find "hidden" teachings if you study the symbolism.

The greatest symbolism that is hidden from them all is the pervasive desire to have a prominent point to the structure.

This is the hidden word of God telling his children to not get lost in the secret teachings of men, but to always look up.

Even the mountains of the world speak this message with their grandeur. It is one that will be with Man till the end of time.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Frater210

Do you think that Da Vinci was a Gnostic

Oh that's hard to debate. His free thinking, allegations of being a homosexual, association with secret societies, all seem to indicate that Davinci was a Gnostic. And since i consider the core of Christianity, the Catholic Church, to be Gnostic, i naturally suspect that the Church would preserve pieces like this in their libraries.... Why?? I dont know...Why does the Catholic Church preserve Greek and Roman i.e. Pagan art??? They're duplicitous. They follow the advice of Valentinus, even though they officially condemn Gnosticism as heresy; the inner religion, that of the theologians, priests, and political elite, is "Pneumatic" (gnosticism), while the religion of the psychic masses is the worship of the "demiurge", which is conventional morality, personal God etc....

I know he was a neo-Platonist so it probably would not be such a huge stretch to think that he made the same error as the Gnostics concerning the characterization of the Dynamis as the Demiurgos.

That's practically speaking, almost the same philosophy. Gnosticism is just a more 'religious' tone but the Platonian influences, of the cosmos being a "demiurge", are present in both.

How do you consider the Neo-Platonian, and Gnostic characterization of the cosmos, and the Jewish God, as a 'demiurge', an error?? Clearly, its nonsensical, and counter-intuitive, but how could anyone be shown that it is a "error"??? The Gnostic attitude seems to be a more theologized version of the Hindu 'maya', and the buddhist 'samsara'.... The Gnostics do it through some silly theology of the cosmos being an evil ploy of a 'demon' which seeks to suck mans spiritual life force, the hindus do it in a similar fashion (making the claims that Hinduism, specifically Krishnaism, influenced early Christian thought as highly plausible) and the Mahayana Buddhist negate any questioning or metaphysical thought all together, which to me is absurdly illogical, and contrary to the ways of truth, and helps explain why the West, inspired by its Judeo-Christian metaphysical thinking, spawned the industrial revolution and other scientific breakthroughs - while China and India stood by contemplating nothingness, accomplishing nothing, and showing people like me that theyre Buddhism is much too one sided, much too absorbed in the void, and in evading all speculation and deductive reasoning..... In my opinion, the truth is between the two poles, of scientific reasoning/metaphysical speculation, and connection to the transcendent, unknowable godhead.

But I agree, the timing for the release of these types of things always makes me suspicious whether I have a good reason to be or not;

It strikes me as odd that the Catholic Church, Pope Pius XII, announced the "ascension of Mary", to become the 4th aspect, relative to the trinity, just after WWII, in 1950. Since then, how matriarchal has our society become?? How perfectly consistent with metaphysical thought this Catholic Church declaration was! And yet Catholics - the ignorant ones - will refuse to look at this declaration outside of official church theology. They simply don't get the deeper metaphysics, because the truth would disturb them and upset their spiritual need for truth.

To anyone who understands the significance of numbers, and how 3 is associated with the masculine - both in historical Christianity with its patriarchal emphasis, and in Kabbalah, with its association of David with the Shekinah, which is Malkuth, while the upper 3 sefiroth of Chesed, Gevurah and Tifereth, standing for the Masculine, associated with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (The latter 3 were the archetypes of basic spiritual forces which didnt find expression until the Kingdom of David was established.) it is clear what the significance of this Catholic declaration was...

In a similar vein, in 1969, counter-culture (an expression of feminine emotionalism) officially debuted with the famously popular Woodstock festival, and in the same year, mankind went to the moon! The parallels are clear, and the fact that going to the moon has the clear symbolic meaning of "going to the feminine", it gives credence (only an added motivation; doesn't mean i believe it) to the conspiracy theory that the moon landing was staged.

Oh dear, that painting is amazing... i really want a closer view of it to analize the details in more depth, but from what i can see here, at work, it's amazingly enough to keep me thinking about it the rest of the day.
Thanks Op!

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Frater210

 

What about the fact that Jesus is wearing a females dress??? Wouldn't this allude to the whole Androgynous fascination of Neo-platonism/Gnosticism?

Or a reference to the hidden Godess who's been blocked out of most mainstream religions perhaps?