Summary of Abortion Laws Around the World

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by daryllyn

 

Show me proof that they aren't.

www.cirp.org...

"Functional maturity of the cerebral cortex is suggested by fetal and neonatal electroencephalographic patterns...First, intermittent electroencephalograpic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation; they become sustained at 22 weeks and bilaterally synchronous at 26 to 27 weeks."

No brainwaves, no sentience.

[color=dodgerblue]Your snippet does not say that there are no brainwaves, it says that there aren't consistent, bilaterally synchronous brainwaves until 26-27 weeks.

And your source? It's almost as old as I am.

reply to post by daryllyn

Your snippet does not say that there are no brainwaves, it says that there aren't consistent, bilaterally synchronous brainwaves until 26-27 weeks.

.First, intermittent electroencephalograpic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation..

And your source? It's almost as old as I am.

Do you have a newer study that places the appeareance of brainwaves sooner?

reply to post by Maslo

Do you have a newer study that places the appeareance of brainwaves sooner?

[color=dodgerblue]The only sources I can find right now are biased.

I will keep looking though.

reply to post by warrenite


It says that in the UK, rape is not a legitimate reason to abort. That is clearly bull#. Who came up with these stats??

Originally posted by daryllyn
***snip***
Birth control pills and condoms both have very small failure rates when used properly 100% of the time. I have a hard time believing that she was using both methods properly. What do you think the chances of both failing at the same time are? Pretty slim, if you ask me.

You are right. The chances of both methods failing are at best very slim.

I have no specific reason to doubt her, but you are right.

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane

Originally posted by daryllyn
***snip***
Birth control pills and condoms both have very small failure rates when used properly 100% of the time. I have a hard time believing that she was using both methods properly. What do you think the chances of both failing at the same time are? Pretty slim, if you ask me.

You are right. The chances of both methods failing are at best very slim.

I have no specific reason to doubt her, but you are right.

[color=dodgerblue]Wow. I am very surprised by your response.

She was 17. I was 17 once upon a time. She made a mistake. Her decision? None of my business. She did what she thought was best for her situation. And you supporting her (regardless if you agreed at the time) was the best thing you could do for her as a parent. I am sure that was a tough situation. I hope I can be that for my little ones when they are older.

I apologize if I seemed rude before.

I am anti abortion but I can appreciate that we do have the right to make that choice.

Just because I could never do it, doesn't mean that other's shouldn't have the choice.

This is a class issue.

Rich women have always been able to hop a jet and fly to another country and "take care of business".

Now, before I get a bunch of hateful replies.

When I was 18 I was raped.

One week later I was also two days late for my period which was unusual.

I had 48 hours to think about all the "what if" stuff. (Period came two days later).

For myself, I didn't care who the father is or was. Did not know him/mugged and raped............I decided that if any baby had 50% of my blood running through his/her little precious veins, that baby was going to be mine forever. Loved, cherished and a part of me.

HOWEVER

I personally don't think I have the right to dictate to another women what she can and can't do with her own body.

To my mind, abortion is sad - very sad...............as stated before, any baby with 1/2 of my DNA lives and I will fight to my dying breath for my babies (I have three by a wonderful wonderful man).

I was lucky, my period came, I went to a doctor and had no disease - thank god

But again, rich, affluent women have more options by virtue of money.

All women should be able to choose.

A baby unwanted is usually a baby unloved.

A baby unplanned for (and babies are very expensive if you do the parent thing right).

Many lost souls, adults that cannot be salvaged, were the product of a unplanned, unwanted pregnancy.

Good, free, available birth control - closing the barn doors before the cows get out is the logical answer and don't say abstain, cause some of us in our youth were so horny saying abstain was a joke.

Abortion is sad, I'm an old woman now and no longer have that problem to deal with.

But all women of child bearing age should at least have the right, the freedom to choose.

Again yes abortion is to my mind beyond sad.

As far as adoption. My sister in law could not have children. She is white, she and her husband wanted a white "normal" baby and a white normal baby is hard to come by - they don't tell you that.................they had to go "grey" market and only got two white normal baby girls because my sister in law's husband is a lawyer and had connections.

Adoption..............most children up for adoption are either "damaged", "not white" or older with "issues".

Adoption..............the waiting list is, in America an average of 7 years.

Many people that dictate "Abortion is wrong and should be illegal" - are financially secure, married, and have no idea of what facing a pregnancy alone with no money, psychological support or job is like.

Don't judge other people.........simply concentrate on your own dirty laundry and allow others to do what they feel they have to do in order to survive.

FYI: Many women that do have abortions, I am told, regret later that they did........many when they decide to have their first live birth feel the pangs of guilt over their past decision.

But taking on the role of parenting, trying to raise up a child to be happy, productive and a decent person is hard now days even if you have everything going for you.

America has the highest prison rate of any industrialize country in the world at present..........many were unwanted, abused and uncared for as children.

All children...........ALL CHILDREN...........deserve to be loved, cherished and feel wanted.

The lesser of two evils.............an abortion when there are only a few cells or strapping a person down to a gurney and pumping them full of poison.

Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by HolgerTheDane

 

How many in that statistical survey was actually in stead of birth control? You don't know?

And how many weren't?

So we can agree that your statistical reference is no good?

Originally posted by daryllyn

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane

Originally posted by daryllyn
***snip***
Birth control pills and condoms both have very small failure rates when used properly 100% of the time. I have a hard time believing that she was using both methods properly. What do you think the chances of both failing at the same time are? Pretty slim, if you ask me.

You are right. The chances of both methods failing are at best very slim.

I have no specific reason to doubt her, but you are right.

[color=dodgerblue]Wow. I am very surprised by your response.

One shouldn't disregard valid arguments.

***snip***

I apologize if I seemed rude before.

Absolutely no reason to apologize. Given my posts and my lack of finesse in English, my opponents on ATS sometimes get a bit miffed.

But you are also right in supposing that my daughters abortion was a tough one to swallow. Although I agree with abortion for a huge number of reasons, I got very disappointed that my own daughter got pregnant and had to have an abortion.
She assured me that they used two types of birth control. I believe her, but she could have been lying.

Fact remains that she would have ruined her life, been a rotten mother and the child would have had a rotten childhood.

And to get it out in the open: I do not believe in abortion as a birth control. I do not think it right to use the "morning after pill".
But the few that misuses the system cannot be allowed to stand in the way of those who need the system.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


A star for your post isn't enough.

Hereby applauded.

I found the koreas interesting

Korea (North) Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
Korea (South) R R R R R R R

North Korea which is under kim jong ill has no restriction
but South Korea it is very hard to get one..

reply to post by HolgerTheDane


[color=dodgerblue]Fair enough.

I did some research and found that my earlier statement is not exactly correct.

But..

• Forty-six percent of women who have abortions had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy, 32% had had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex

[color=deepskyblue]
46% of women that had abortions, failed to use a method of birth control, and then had an abortion. That statistic is startling to me. So in a way, I was kind of right. They didn't even attempt to prevent it from happening and aborted the pregnancy when it did.

Source

reply to post by daryllyn


First 4 years of marriage I was able to use birth control pills. After four years, (back in the early 70's) I developed clotting problems and high blood pressure (was thin, ate healthy, did not smoke and drank in moderation on holidays). Had to be taken off birth control pills.

Son #1 - Rubber broke on April 1st, I kid you not. I also used foam as a back up but somehow my first son got through.

Son #2 - IUD. It was if memory serves me a CU7. Second son got through.

Son #3 - Planned.

At 35 I had to have a partial hysterectomy and it was the best thing to ever happen to me........I could have my cake and eat it too!!!!!! I was free from periods and getting pregnant.......Whoo hoo



Some women are very very fertile. My mother had me at 43. Upon her death at age 53 she was still having regular periods.

My sister was very fertile and had a baby almost every year until her womb broke with her last child and they had to go in and do surgery on her............she was a devote Catholic and did not believe in birth control.

Again, thank God for birth control.

Abortion is not birth control. It should be used as a last resort.

If all girls of child bearing age were properly educated the number of abortions might go down. And I mean, take them by the hand, take them to a clinic, to a doctor and given a shot so they don't "forget"...........God now I hear they have birth control shots that you not only are protected from pregnancy........but you only get four periods a year. I had one every single 21 days from age 10 to 35.

We have TV shows and the internet now that show very young people doing very adult things and dressed very provocatively. And most teenagers are home alone from 3 to 6 PM............Schools out and mom and dad are at work.

I worked in a very middle to upper middle class office and two of my co-workers had 15 year old daughters that got pregnant.

Saying, no no just don't do it isn't working................we need to really educate all women of child bearing age.

If you want to stop abortions the way to do it is through education.

I have a grand daughter that is ten, she is just now developing breast and like me, she will hit puberty early.......in a perfect world, I really really hope she goes through college, gets a career, meets a nice young, kind, intelligent and decent man, gets married, makes sure that marriage will work out and they can afford and plan to have a baby - my great grandchild......................but we don't live in a perfect world.

We've started having conversations about how our body is changing........nothing to in depth yet, the very basic stuff, breast growing and period coming, it's a natural bodily function.

I did not want this challenge but her mother didn't hit puberty until 16 and my grand daughter had said her mother has told her nothing.

I was never informed and thought I was bleeding to death at a New Year's Eve Party (1963) was a frightening year.

Our young people today have challenges and so much garbage they have to go through it's not even funny and we are not evidently educating our youth properly.

And we haven't even touched upon unsafe sex resulting in diseases

Glad I'm old and all that stuff is behind me.

Sex is not a dirty word. I have some European girlfriends and American girlfriends and in comparing the two, my American girlfriends are a lot more prudish about talking about s.e.x. and our bodies and how they operate.

Education and connecting with your daughters, nieces, grand daughters is the key.

And men should also take responsibility..............I've taught all my son's "you play - you pay".

second line.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


[color=dodgerblue]I couldn't agree more with your post (:

I have two little boys and plan to teach them properly when the time comes. I am hoping we will have an open and honest relationship when they come of age. Right now, they are just 2 and 4. So we have a ways to go for all of that. Though, I am sure that it will fly by....



[color=dodgerblue]I can also no longer take birth control. I used to be able to before I had children. I am really sensitive to it now. I have tried everything that's available. We are taking precautions and just hoping it doesn't fail. I am considering getting a tubal ligation.. but we are currently uninsured. If it happens? I know exactly what to expect because I have been through it twice

reply to post by daryllyn


Even from the back do they ever look soooooooooooooooo cute!!!!!!

Kiss them, hug them, tell them that you love them and enjoy every second you have with them.

Time flies so fast.

It seems like just yesterday my three sons were that size.

Also read to them each night at bedtime.................My middle one had me read "Barney Beagle" every single night for several years, I had the book memorized and it was worn to almost nothing.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


[color=deeppink]Thanks (: I think they are adorable too. They are like night and day.

The dark haired one has some delays, apraxia of speech and is ever so slightly autistic. He just finally learned to say his name at 4 years old after two years of speech therapy. Huge milestone and a big moment for us! It was emotional for this mama (:

I will take your advice because I just know that time will fly.

Originally posted by daryllyn
***snip***
We are taking precautions and just hoping it doesn't fail. I am considering getting a tubal ligation.. but we are currently uninsured. If it happens? I know exactly what to expect because I have been through it twice

***snip***

I have taken the consequences of my wife not being able to use "the pill". I have two daughters - that's enough.

For a man - the snip is a minor operation done under local anestetics. Best thing to do really. The whole procedure took less than half an hour.

A funny storry really. From the point where we made the decision I had to wait two full years before my docter would refer me for the procedure (it's free in Denmark by the way).
I then came to the hospital and was told to strip below the waist. Get on the table and lean back with my feet in the stirrups.
Slightly embarressing - the surgeon was a woman.
I remember the fleeting thought that it would be really bad if I got exited. She looked rather well.
Once she cut the sack that thought flew out the window faster than a greased lightning.

She opened the sack and started working. Within a couple of minutes the door opened and a male doctor entered. "Do you want help", he asked. The answer was obviously yes and within seconds I had two surgeons rummaging around inside the sack looking for the tubes and tying, snipping, clipping and burning.

For some days I had a sack that would make a stallion envious.

reply to post by HolgerTheDane

A funny storry really. From the point where we made the decision I had to wait two full years before my docter would refer me for the procedure (it's free in Denmark by the way). I then came to the hospital and was told to strip below the waist. Get on the table and lean back with my feet in the stirrups. Slightly embarressing - the surgeon was a woman. She opened the sack and started working. Within a couple of minutes the door opened and a male doctor entered. "Do you want help", he asked. The answer was obviously yes and within seconds I had two surgeons rummaging around inside the sack looking for the tubes and tying, snipping, clipping and burning. For some days I had a sack that would make a stallion envious.

[color=mediumorchid]Thanks for making me almost choke on my coffee.. lol

I can't imagine if he got a vasectomy... He is such a giant baby about stuff like that.

Example: He got a flu shot and a pneumonia vaccine and whined for days about his arm. It was ridiculous. He had bringing him advil and ice packs. Not kidding..

I was just thinking. For those men who really doesn't have a clue about what it means to get a vasectomy.

Myth no 1 - You can't ejaculate.
That is wrong. The procedure cuts the tubes leading the sperm cells towards the flow of seemen and stops it from getting mixed.
The seemen MINUS spermcells gets ejaculated quite as normal.
Think of it as an extremely low sperm count.

Myth no 2 - it interferes with your lovelife.
Part true, but only for about two weeks. The first few weeks one would tend to be more tender and less vigorous in the love making. You are soon back to normal. Perhaps you should consult your partner as to whether the new tender style is better.

Myth no 3 - it is a major procedure (for a man).
When you consider the procedure against the female version there is no contest. For the man it is quick, safe and minor. Not so for a woman.

Myth no 4 - it is effective immediately.
No really. There might still be live sperm cells on the wrong side of the seal. To be safe you use a proven contraceptive for two months after the procedure.

Myth no 5 - it is irreversible.
Well sort of. It is not easy to reverse, but it depends on the method used. One should only consider a vasectomy if one lives in a stable relationship, have had the kids that the relationship warrants AND both partners are in agreement that the lesser procedure is better than the procedure used on women.

Myth no 6 - I can't have it done.
If you are a man - yes you can. And the best thing is that there are different procedures and one of them is sure to suit you.

Bonus 1 - for some men
You have no risk of anyone waiting outside your office with a "bundle of illicit joy on their arm).

Bonus 2 - better sex
Better sex because you have the well liked "flesh against flesh" feeling during intercourse. It is widely acknowledged among connosoirs to be the best.

Bonus 3 - circumcised men will like it.
It is a well known fact that circumcised men have a reduced sensitivity because of the tip of the penis having been hardened over the years. A condom doesn't improve on this situation.
It is especially seen in the porn industry where american men goes about it like jack hammers and the european men have more gentle sex. A survey I read suggests it is because of this reduced sensitivity causing them to seek a harder friction contact to reach ejaculation. (sorry. can't find the survey right now. It has probably drowned in the many Google hits totally unrelated.)
When you think about it, it makes sense. Unfortunately when women gets aroused they lubricate better which makes the men hammer harder, which in turn hurt the woman rather than feeling nice.

Bonus 4 - women will like it.
Some women have problems with the pill because it interferes with their hormonal balance. It is true that the pill is perscribed to some women becuase of hormonal imbalance, but it isn't generally a good thing.

Conclusion

There really isn't any reason why you shouldn't enjoy sex more with this simple procedure. Unless of course that some VD is demanding that you use a condom to protect your partner.