A few questions for Christians

Originally posted by Prezbo369
You mean a google query that would lead me to a christian creationist website right?

Because that's the most likely place to find incorrect and dishonest distortions of history, or maybe you could find me a source that states that atheists were directly responsible for the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror due to their atheism?

edit on 18-11-2011 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)

Wikipedia is fine. You can try reading books too.

You may want to start with the article on the Cult of Reason, and the expand on the topic by reading the article on the steps taken during the French Revolution to dechristianise France.

"Adherence to the Cult of Reason became a defining attribute of the Hébertist faction. (...) The earliest atheistic public demonstrations ranged from "wild masquerades" redolent of earlier spring festivals to outright persecutions, including ransackings of churches and synagogues in which religious and royal images were defaced."

"The Hébertists were an ultra-revolutionary political faction associated with the populist journalist Jacques Hébert. They came to power during the Reign of Terror and played a significant role in the French Revolution.
The Hébertists were ardent supporters of the dechristianization of France and of extreme measures in service of the Terror, including the Law of Suspects enacted in 1793. (..) their violent, anti-intellectual, and ultra-populist views centered chiefly around what historian Simon Schama describes as "an anarchic notion of popular government, always armed to impose the will of the people on its mandatories," and took the form of support for "unrelenting surveillance, denunciation, indictment, humiliation, and death."

Then come back here and repeat the line that what happened was not due to their atheism.

reply to post by Leahn


Being athiest doesn't mean someone is anti-christian and being anti-christian doesn't make them an athiest.

Originally posted by Leahn

Wikipedia is fine. You can try reading books too.

You may want to start with the article on the , and the expand on the topic by reading the article on the steps taken during the French Revolution to [url= France.

"Adherence to the Cult of Reason became a defining attribute of the Hébertist faction. (...) The earliest atheistic public demonstrations ranged from "wild masquerades" redolent of earlier spring festivals to outright persecutions, including ransackings of churches and synagogues in which religious and royal images were defaced."

"The Hébertists were an ultra-revolutionary political faction associated with the populist journalist Jacques Hébert. They came to power during the Reign of Terror and played a significant role in the French Revolution.
The Hébertists were ardent supporters of the dechristianization of France and of extreme measures in service of the Terror, including the Law of Suspects enacted in 1793. (..) their violent, anti-intellectual, and ultra-populist views centered chiefly around what historian Simon Schama describes as "an anarchic notion of popular government, always armed to impose the will of the people on its mandatories," and took the form of support for "unrelenting surveillance, denunciation, indictment, humiliation, and death."

Then come back here and repeat the line that what happened was not due to their atheism.

Ive come back to repeat the line that what happened was NOT due to atheists or their atheism.

Read you own links, none even hint at what you are claiming, its a perverse and dishonest retardation of our history, an obvious attempt to hide your religions own shameful past behind a contemptuous lie.

You know this propagation of misinformation in the name of your religion and your gods, does you or them no favors..........

But then its nothing less than what we have come to expect

Originally posted by Garfee
Being atheist doesn't mean someone is anti-christian and being anti-christian doesn't make them an atheist.

Irrelevant. There is a subset of atheists that are anti-theists, and are militant about their atheism. Those belong to this subset. That not all atheists belong to it does not make it cease to exist.

Originally posted by Prezbo369
Ive come back to repeat the line that what happened was NOT due to atheists or their atheism.

What exactly are you arguing against?

That the Hébertists were not responsible for the killings? That the Hébertists, although responsible for the killings, were not atheists? Or that the Hébertists, although responsible for the killings and atheists, did not do it due to the fact that they were militant atheists and were anti-religion?

Did you read the article on the "Cult of Reason" ?

Originally posted by Leahn

What exactly are you arguing against?

That the Hébertists were not responsible for the killings? That the Hébertists, although responsible for the killings, were not atheists? Or that the Hébertists, although responsible for the killings and atheists, did not do it due to the fact that they were militant atheists and were anti-religion?

Did you read the article on the "Cult of Reason" ?

That Atheists and their atheism, under any title, were responsible for The Reign of Terror, as you have fallaciously claimed.

Whereas the Inquisition did what it did entirely and completely because they were Christians......

You don't get to create your own version of history, just like you don't get to create your own version of reality

Originally posted by Garfee
Being atheist doesn't mean someone is anti-christian and being anti-christian doesn't make them an atheist.

Originally posted by Leahn
Irrelevant. There is a subset of atheists that are anti-theists, and are militant about their atheism. Those belong to this subset. That not all atheists belong to it does not make it cease to exist.

So, what I say is irrelevant and what you say is not.

You must be religious!

Originally posted by Garfee
So, what I say is irrelevant and what you say is not.

You must be religious!

Your point is irrelevant because I never made the claim that being an atheist makes you anti-religious (or vice-versa). I made the claim that atheists who were also anti-religious were far more bloodthirsty than religious people ever were.

So, while what you said is true, it misses the point.

reply to post by Leahn


That is simply not true!

Religious people have murdered their way through history, you cannot keep dismissing this fact as you have.

Originally posted by Garfee
That is simply not true!

Religious people have murdered their way through history, you cannot keep dismissing this fact as you have.

Refusal to believe in the facts of history won't make them go away. It is true that atheists are far more bloodthirsty than Christians ever were. You may refuse to believe this fact and bury your head in the sand, pretending to be standing on some sort of moral higher ground, but that would be just a delusion.

I have never "dismissed the fact" that religious people have murdered others throughout history. I have dismissed the myth repeated by atheists and anti-Christians that they have killed "millions". One person in this thread even stated it as "they have killed millions, if not billions". Seriously? Billions? What's next? Christianity caused the extinction of the dinosaurs?

I said it once, and I say it again. Tally up ALL the deaths of all the wars which Christianity was involved, and it won't reach two hundred thousand deaths. "Millions" is a myth. "The Book of Enoch was removed" is a myth. "The Inquisition tortured and killed opposition" is a myth. "Convert or die" is a myth. "Dark ages" is a myth. "Flat Earth" is a myth. "Religion is against science" is a myth. The "burning of the library of Alexandria" is a myth. The history of Galileo the way atheists tell it is a myth.

In the age of internet, there is no excuse for ignorance when the correct knowledge is a google query away.

reply to [url= by Leahn[/url]


Oh the Irony

This kind of delusion is truly tragic, and dangerous

In the age of the internet, the spread of misinformation is left unchecked, allowing people like you to make completely fallacious claims with only completely contradictory sources. And when this is pointed out to you, you just continue to make these claims like a stereotypical young earth creationist nutjob.

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by Leahn

What exactly are you arguing against?

That the Hébertists were not responsible for the killings? That the Hébertists, although responsible for the killings, were not atheists? Or that the Hébertists, although responsible for the killings and atheists, did not do it due to the fact that they were militant atheists and were anti-religion?

Did you read the article on the "Cult of Reason" ?

That Atheists and their atheism, under any title, were responsible for The Reign of Terror, as you have fallaciously claimed.

I will ask again, since you keep ignoring the damning evidence.

Are you arguing that the Hébertists were not responsible for the killings? Yes or no?

Are you arguing that the Hébertists were not atheists? Yes or no?

Are you arguing that the Hébertists did not attack Christians in the name of "The Cult of Reason", which was an atheist religion created by atheists to replace Christianity? Yes or no?

Stop calling my claims fallacious, unless you can provide counter-evidence. You do not get to write you own history.

Originally posted by Prezbo369
This kind of delusion is truly tragic, and dangerous

In the age of the internet, the spread of misinformation is left unchecked, allowing people like you to make completely fallacious claims with only completely contradictory sources.

You are welcome to present your counter-evidence, demonstrating that any of my claims are fallacious, which you won't do because atheists rarely do anything more than barking.

Originally posted by Leahn
You are welcome to present your counter-evidence, demonstrating that any of my claims are fallacious, which you won't do because atheists rarely do anything more than barking.

I already have presented 'counter-evidence', scroll up to see the link to the Wikipedia article on the Reign of Terror.

Notice there is no mention that the 16,000+ people butchered were killed by atheists, due to their atheism.

Notice the multitude of causes and reasons that led to the Reign of Terror and the subsequent executions, none of which were the atheism of atheists.

Because that was your claim right?

A fallacious claim, a lie, a dishonest attempt at re-writing history. Like I said, tragic and dangerous.......

Originally posted by Prezbo369
I already have presented 'counter-evidence', scroll up to see the link to the Wikipedia article on the Reign of Terror.

Notice there is no mention that the 16,000+ people butchered were killed by atheists, due to their atheism.

Let me get this straight. Are you telling me, with all letters, that the leadership of the reign of terror wasn't atheist, despite having enacted the measures for dechristianization of France, establishing the "Cult of Reason", and pretty much outlawing any form of worship?

Despite this, they were not atheists?

Is that what you are saying? What were they, then, if not atheists? Christians?

reply to post by Garfee


God made both male & female, but the male was first, & is superior because of that. To render God 'She' would not afford due respect to his position. male IS superior, no matter how much feminists want it to be different. Adam was superior to Eve, God is superior to us. It is right to measure God alongside his most superior creation on Earth when we are referring to him. It is a measure of His position relative to us, & how else do we quantify him? S/He is Big, S/He is strong? No.. I know women who are like that,(!) & I wouldn't want to tell one of them that men are superior, but big & strong doesn't express God's uniquely superior being. Less is more.... Man has more letters than woman, but the extra letters denote man is the originator in a relative way.. man = man, woman =of man. He is more than she because she came from him... God is 'He' because we 'became' because of him...?? (I am female, I can use the word feminist apparently)!.. Feel free to correct errors with explanation... Don't want to come back & have to ask!

Originally posted by Leahn
Let me get this straight. Are you telling me, with all letters, that the leadership of the reign of terror wasn't atheist, despite having enacted the measures for dechristianization of France, establishing the "Cult of Reason", and pretty much outlawing any form of worship?

Despite this, they were not atheists?

Is that what you are saying? What were they, then, if not atheists? Christians?

Thats quite the strawman you're building there.......and you're missing the point

Your claim was that the 16,000+ deaths attributed to the reign of terror were committed by people because they rejected the claims made by theists and held no belief in specifically the Christian master of the universe (in other words, committed by atheists BECAUSE OF THEIR ATHEISM).

The cult of reason were atheists, so were the Hébertists, and yes they ransacked churches and defaced religious monuments and images and attempted to dechristianize France.

But this is irrelevant, as it doesn't then
follow that the slaughter of 16,000 of their countrymen was due to their atheism.

The leaders of the reign of terror and the Hébertists also probably drank wine, but it wasn't their wine drinking that led them to kill 16,000 people.

Add to this that there are no accounts, contemporary or otherwise, that confirm your claim, and we're left with the conclusion that such fallacious claims were made in a vain attempt to downplay the atrocities committed by Christians directly due to their belief in a supernatural master of the universe.

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by Garfee
That is simply not true!

Religious people have murdered their way through history, you cannot keep dismissing this fact as you have.

Refusal to believe in the facts of history won't make them go away. It is true that atheists are far more bloodthirsty than Christians ever were. You may refuse to believe this fact and bury your head in the sand, pretending to be standing on some sort of moral higher ground, but that would be just a delusion.

I said it once, and I say it again. Tally up ALL the deaths of all the wars which Christianity was involved, and it won't reach two hundred thousand deaths. "Millions" is a myth. "The Book of Enoch was removed" is a myth. "The Inquisition tortured and killed opposition" is a myth. "Convert or die" is a myth. "Dark ages" is a myth. "Flat Earth" is a myth. "Religion is against science" is a myth. The "burning of the library of Alexandria" is a myth. The history of Galileo the way atheists tell it is a myth.

In the age of internet, there is no excuse for ignorance when the correct knowledge is a google query away.

I am at a loss how to reply to you. Everyone is allowed their own opinion but when debating with the likes of you there is no actual debate.

I'm surprised you have had the restraint thus far not to tell me I'll burn in hell.