Those that are against abortion

dude... you hit that on the Freaking nail... in wanna kiss you lol jk but yea exactly how i feel. come on how can you uphold a claim that an "unborn" baby that is completely and utterly dependent barely has a developed brain is a person? YOU CANNOT

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Charmed707

 

On an anonymous board such as ATS no assumptions can be made about a 'poster' till they themselves reveal.

You implied that only 'young, inexperienced' people are pro-life and said that years from now, I would be pro-choice. Therefore, if you really believed such, you wouldn't need any notification of my age. Not once has any older person said to me "you sound young" during debate, but when I let it be known that I'm young, they immediately give the generic response of pulling the age card. It's something I can ALWAYS count on.

All the books. lessons and lectures are well and good, but it is your OWN experience's in life that will eventually make you a different individual than you are now

My view on abortion was not formed due to books, lessons, or lectures. Many times, that's how the pro-choice view is formed- hearing constant rhetoric about 'women's rights' and how women are so helpless. What it all comes down to is whether you think women should have 'rights' over the unborn.

I have no fear of 'youth'.......

Never said you did.

I say, if you are against abortion, you better be opening your house up for foster kids, cause there is waaaay too many unwanted children kicking around.... In fact, there's WAY to many people overall!

Pro-aborts, their own mothers were for life.

"The fruit of contraception is legalized abortion. The fruit of abortion is nuclear war."

Words from Mother Teresa, the second sentence, we see is about to happen.

God decides life and death, not us, ever. Does modern technology help, life, a new person with a body and a soul begins at conception.

reply to post by muse7

all because your 1000+ year old book says it's an "evil" thing to do.

The bible never mentions abortion.

It's a shame how religion still has a choke hold on social issues

Strawman Tactic. The bible never mentions abortion.

Because they have managed to set themselves free from the teachings of an ancient book that was based on nothing more than superstitions that are considered stupid and foolish by the majority of the scientific community.

The bible does not mention abortion.



You need to get some better arguments, your entire point of discussion is a fallacy.

Thank you for coming to the place where we Deny Ignorance, Have a nice day.

reply to post by colbe

God decides life and death, not us, ever. Does modern technology help, life, a new person with a body and a soul begins at conception.

Except that in reality god does not exist and a new "soul" begins at 5th month of pregnancy.

reply to post by Charmed707



I didn't imply that only 'young inexperienced' people are pro life, or that you would ever

change your views. What i did infer was that you may well alter your opinions with more

actual experience of life, many do after they have actually been there done that!!

My own experience goes back to when there were only three types of contraceptives

the condom, withdrawal, or abstinence - two of them free but 100% unreliable, the third not

free and at a time when the average person was far from 'well off' or even 'comfortable'

'Benifits' simply did not exist!


I empathise with your 'agecard' response but do i detect a touch of 'a chip on your shoulder'

or 'a touch of smugness' there?............I've had it all my life that i appear much younger than

I am, i take no offence....just enjoy

You sound to me like a well adjusted young woman, someone i would like for my grand

daughter to aspire to - but i fear for the 13, 14, and15 yr old's of today. It seems to me they

have 'everything' thrown at them all the information, but not how to handle it....how to VALUE

themselves, put bluntly how to say NO. Yesterday i came across these facts which sums up

what i have said.

Studies have indicated that adolescent girls are often in abusive and controlling relationships

at the time of their concieving. They have also reported that the knowledge of their preganancy

has often intensified violent and controlling behavior on the part of the boy friend. Those under

18yrs are twice as likely to get beaten by the boy friend.A UK study found that 70% of teens

who had given birth in their teens had experienced adolescent domestic violence. A Washington

State study found 70% of teenage mothers had been beaten and 51% of the girls had

experienced attempts at birth control sabotage by the boy friend! Studies in the US

indicate the age discrepancy between teenagers and the men who impregnate them. Teenage

girls in relationships with 'adult boys' are more likely to get pregnant than those in a

relationship with boys of their own age (seems like a control issue to me) A review of

California's 1990 statics found that men 'older than high school age' father 77% of births to

'high school' girls!

You state your views on abortion were not formed by books, lessons etc., well they

certainly appear not to have been formed by any sort of actual experience of yourself or that

of anyone close to you? And as for your views on 'womens rights' don't knock them

be grateful, be VERY GRATEFUL I can only say they they have not yet gone far enough!


EXPERIENCE

I go back to when women had NO RIGHTS. When i was getting divorced and had an

appointment for the fitting of an IDU i was given a form for my husband to fill in agreeing to

'ALLOW' this!! ( today) When i wanted to purchase something on HP [hire purchase]

i had to get a MALE guarantor ( today)..........so on and so on...............

And abortion was illegal.........makes you wonder how desperate a young woman had to be to

do some of the horrors to themselves or have it done to them!! ........ The death rate was very

high .............. Look up Vera Drake



With all that said I wish you all the best .......Eletheia.

Originally posted by eletheia

If a pregnant woman of 5 months [20 weeks] dies naturally or gets strangled, stabbed or

shot.the medical profession will not try to save the embryo/fetus because it isn't viable yet?

I guess it's like Cesar, if the mother gives the thumbs up then the embryo is treated like a human and if the mother gives the thumbs down its a thing that can be killed...

Originally posted by SalientSkivvy
I say, if you are against abortion, you better be opening your house up for foster kids, cause there is waaaay too many unwanted children kicking around.... In fact, there's WAY to many people overall!

edit on 15-11-2011 by SalientSkivvy because: (no reason given)

How about if a woman goes in and gets an Abortion paid for by the state then she and her partner must also agree to sterilization. Is there no repercussions when one's actions affects society?

Originally posted by Maslo

Except that in reality god does not exist and a new "soul" begins at 5th month of pregnancy.

Could be true, but I have not yet met a pregnant woman that waited until their 5th month to view what is growing inside of her as anything other than her child. Maybe we should have a "new human" party on the 5th month.

reply to post by Xtrozero




I am personally against termination after 16wks but the law states it is legal up to 20wks.

And NO as the mother is already deceased she is in no state to 'act' like Caesar.



Medically a 5 month embryo/fetus is not viable to survive outside the uterus as the skin is

very thin and slightly transparent and the blood vessels can be seen through also the lungs are

not fully developed OR strong enough to permit survival.

reply to post by Xtrozero




How does a woman having a termination have ANY effect on society in general??


It is HER problem and HER soloution.............And she has in all probablity contributed

to the NHS [or the equivalant] with her tax contributions.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

How does a woman having a termination have ANY effect on society in general??

It is HER problem and HER soloution.............And she has in all probablity contributed

to the NHS [or the equivalant] with her tax contributions.

I guess the question is, should taxes pay for abortions?

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by SalientSkivvy
I say, if you are against abortion, you better be opening your house up for foster kids, cause there is waaaay too many unwanted children kicking around.... In fact, there's WAY to many people overall!

edit on 15-11-2011 by SalientSkivvy because: (no reason given)

How about if a woman goes in and gets an Abortion paid for by the state then she and her partner must also agree to sterilization. Is there no repercussions when one's actions affects society?

Humm forced sterilization.... That would definitely cause an uproar....
But free sterilization, I'd be be down.
If you want kids later on in life, you can always get your eggs/sperm frozen.

reply to post by Xtrozero





Can't speak for other countries but here in the UK we have a 'free' health service, cover's

ALL treatments. But not exactly free as it is paid for from deductions [not taxes] from

everyone's salaries. So here in the UK taxes DO NOT pay for terminations.

reply to post by Xtrozero










I do so admire your optimism that a woman that presents herself for a termination actually

has a 'partner' with her!! - by that time most of them have been long gone

Read one of my previous posts 'get rid' is i believe a favoutite expression!!

Originally posted by eletheia

My own experience goes back to when there were only three types of contraceptives the condom, withdrawal, or abstinence - two of them free but 100% unreliable

Are you attempting to label abortion as a form of 'birth control'? ...and are you suggesting that this was a sad state of affairs? Birth control is a privilege of modern technology, not anyone's right. As I've said, whether abortion is legal or not, whether birth control is in existence or not, people still have full control over their reproduction with the exception of rape. Enough with the blame game.

do i detect a touch of 'a chip on your shoulder' or 'a touch of smugness' there?

Abortion certainly doesn't put me in a warm and fuzzy mood.

You state your views on abortion were not formed by books, lessons etc., well they certainly appear not to have been formed by any sort of actual experience of yourself or that of anyone close to you?

The 'experiences' you speak of are nothing more than sob stories that paint girls as helpless, vulnerable, dense basket cases who have no control over their own lives and relationships. I am 20, so I grew up in the same culture. Trust me, teenage girls are not nearly as vulnerable as you're making them out to be. Many of them date older men for their money. I take all studies with a grain of salt.

Males are NEVER treated this helpless and vulnerable. If they are in a relationship with a girl/woman who tampers with birth control, he is simply told to take responsibilty for his actions.

I can only say they have not yet gone far enough!

Are you kidding me? Women now have more 'rights' than men. How far until you are satisfied? When men simply don't exist or live in a seperate society to themselves?

makes you wonder how desperate a young woman had to be to do some of the horrors to themselves or have it done to them!!

Desperate? They weren't desperate enough to prevent pregnancy in the first place. Actions speak louder than words. Again...these women are not victims because of their own choices. I don't feel sorry for them because they were not forced into any situation.

It's obvious you and I have a vastly different view of the ability and mental capacity of women as well as the role of personal responsibility.

Bottom line is, I don't view adults and sexually mature teenagers who end up facing natural consequences of their actions as victims.

reply to post by Charmed707





At 20 years of age i would hope you 'had got yourself together' better than any

13yr, 14yr, 15yr, 16yr, or 17yr old.

Motherhood will take away many of your militant, sharp views, may even awaken some

empathy in you!



" There's none so blind as those that will not see"

I dont believe anyone on this thread [whether they agree with it or not] has claimed "your

quote"

'abortion puts them in a warm fuzzy mood' :puz

Originally posted by eletheia

At 20 years of age i would hope you 'had got yourself together' better than any 13yr, 14yr, 15yr, 16yr, or 17yr old.

That's not the point. It seems like it was just yesterday when I was 13. Teenage girls are NOT as vulnerable and helpless as you're making them out to be.

Motherhood will take away many of your militant, sharp views, may even awaken some empathy in you!

Motherhood (and fatherhood) tends to make people value responsibility even more. Sympathy and pity is for the truly helpless and those who are inadvertently victimized....not those who 'reap what they sow' so to speak. Your views are purely emotionally driven. That's not how I form my worldviews.

I dont believe anyone on this thread [whether they agree with it or not] has claimed "your quote" 'abortion puts them in a warm fuzzy mood'

Never said they did. You made a remark about me seeming 'smug' as if discussion of such an injustice as abortion is supposed to bring out the 'warm and fuzzy' side of people.

reply to post by Charmed707


I avoid these emotionally hot threads on most days, but I have to step in and say that I am proud to hear a young woman speaking up for her beliefs!! It's unusual in this age for a young person to realize just how precious life and all it's possibilities are, and how sacred that life truly is.

Don't let anyone tell you that you will 'grow up' and become so jaded or disillusioned that your understanding of what life really is will change. I am now 40 , three children and I can tell you that I, too, have ALWAYS felt the same way about the issue of abortion. It is the taking of a human life, with all the wonders and possibilities that go with it.

There is NO WAY to foretell the future, so those that are killing the 'possibles' have no idea of the enormity of their effect on mankind's future. Each and every child murdered had the potential to be anything from a world peacekeeper to a genius that can cure the most terrible diseases. Unfortunately, we will not know just how detrimental these decades of infanticide have been until we are in no position to correct it....