What's Your Beef With NASA?

reply to post by 1questioner


in my humble opinion,
NASA was the greatest collection of minds collected for the greatest reason ever,
to do real science and exploration

the DOD and others were like having one leg tied behind your back, and still winning the race.
i think if we had proof, the chief seceret holders would not let us know as this would reduce their power to control us as a species

xploder

reply to post by nv4711

I've collected few lies. Not the easy to dismiss variety either. We aren't all idiots who only watch YouTube to back up our position you know.

However, rather than drip them in bit by bit I'm saving them up. Perhaps I'll publish them all at once if I'm in the mood one day.

ETA: I'm not Hoagland either! Mine are irrefutable.

Originally posted by XPLodER
in my humble opinion,
NASA was the greatest collection of minds collected for the greatest reason ever,
to do real science and exploration

That doesn't mean they don't have to keep quiet about certain "stuff" and even lie. It comes with the territory in many jobs. I've had to effectively lie for my job before.

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by nv4711

 

question
is the name of the new telescope, the jack web ?
i thought it was james web space telescope
?????

nasa is great and so are their programs,
its more that "national security" trumps science to many times

but i think thats not NASAs fault

xploder

Haha.. dang it... of course it's James Webb... embarassing mistake.. thanks for pointing it out!

Originally posted by zorgon
On NASA Secrecy....

Go to ANY NASA webpage and look at the bottom...

There you will see in the fine print...

Freedom of Information Act
www.hq.nasa.gov...

On that page there is this statement...

"A link is also included to the NASA FOIA Regulations, "Availability of Agency Records to Members of the Public" which will provide you with more detailed information concerning the processing of your FOIA request. "

"Availability of Agency Records to Members of the Public"
www.hq.nasa.gov...

Go down to "Subpart 3--Exemptions"

Under "Sec. 1206.300 Exemptions." you will see...

"(b) The requirements of this part to make Agency records available do not apply to matters that are--
(1)
(i) Specifically authorized under criteria established by an Executive Order to be kept secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy and
(ii) Are in fact properly classified pursuant to such Executive Order;"

So basically they don't have to tell us JACK if its under 'national defense or foreign policy" or just the whim of "Executive Order;".

I would assume that would include ANYTHING related to any Aliens

Now the really GOOD stuff at NASA is found here... but you have to know WHO to ask, and WHAT to ask... then explain WHY you need to know about that and then they might give you access

(Like the file on Mars Methane)

But Zorgon... that FOIA phrase can be found on pretty much any Gov agency with a FOIA mandate... since NASA provided launch support for DoD craft and launched a few spy satellites.. yeah, I guess that falls under National Security exclusion... would Aliens fall under that too? Sure, why not...But the space missions have so many agencies, research labs, universities from around the world involved that I have more than a hard time believing that something like that could be successfully kept secret...

Also, what exactly do they tell the Astrobiologists they hire? Don't look too hard...? Just pretend you're looking for ET life?

Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by nv4711

 

I've collected few lies. Not the easy to dismiss variety either. We aren't all idiots who only watch YouTube to back up our position you know.

However, rather than drip them in bit by bit I'm saving them up. Perhaps I'll publish them all at once if I'm in the mood one day.

ETA: I'm not Hoagland either! Mine are irrefutable.

edit on 9/11/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by XPLodER
in my humble opinion,
NASA was the greatest collection of minds collected for the greatest reason ever,
to do real science and exploration

That doesn't mean they don't have to keep quiet about certain "stuff" and even lie. It comes with the territory in many jobs. I've had to effectively lie for my job before.

edit on 9/11/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)

I'm not calling anyone an idiot... I've asked the question just because from what I know, I don't see the big conspiracy... Are there screw ups, secrets and some good ol' corruption going on? Yes, sure, unfortunately that's what happens in a giant gov agency with a multi-billion dollar budget... but covering up UFOs and Alien visitation? I don't see the especially the scientist going with that for long.. it's for most the reason why they ever got into that profession... and then having to shut up forever?.. I just don't see that.

Whats the point of paying taxes for a Government Space administration that lies to its own people. It seems like they hold NASA personnel on a higher peddle stool then the average American, they know whats going on within the NASA community, and those of us who want answers can't get them and we are left out to dry. I find that BS, that the majority of everything we pitch in for with our tax dollars is going to waste so some jackass with a PHD or Masters degree could lie to people. That's my beef.

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
Whats the point of paying taxes for a Government Space administration that lies to its own people. It seems like they hold NASA personnel on a higher peddle stool then the average American, they know whats going on within the NASA community, and those of us who want answers can't get them and we are left out to dry. I find that BS, that the majority of everything we pitch in for with our tax dollars is going to waste so some jackass with a PHD or Masters degree could lie to people. That's my beef.

Could you be a little more specific, what answers you expect from NASA and don't get them?

See, if the question is: Have you had contact with ETs or did you find life on another planet... and the answer is "No"... then people yell cover up... Just because it's not what we want to hear doesn't make it a lie.. that's a game they can't win...

reply to post by nv4711


I thought this whole thread was about having beef with NASA not praising them. I think I made my end clear enough. I don't like secrets, or lies. This isn't a game, either come straight with the truth or bug off...

reply to post by nv4711

There are leaks and whistleblowers occasionally. Then there is a campaign to discredit the whistleblower or evidence. Then you all forget again.

Did you believe them when they claimed to "lose" the original Apollo 11 landing tapes? Would even an idiot do that? Would even an idiot believe they were "lost"? Not this idiot.

They were hidden in my opinion from public scrutiny. Why?

I have lots more but I'm saving up to buy a present.

ETA: Some people can smell BS. If it looks like BS, acts like BS and smells like BS then it will probably pretent to not be BS. It's still BS though.

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
reply to post by nv4711

 

I thought this whole thread was about having beef with NASA not praising them.

Not asking you to praise them..

..... I don't like secrets, or lies. This isn't a game, either come straight with the truth or bug off...

You obviously haven't been / aren't married... :-)

reply to post by nv4711

You obviously haven't been / aren't married... :-)

Nope, and I'm proud to say I plan to keep it that way.... :-)

Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by nv4711

 

There are leaks and whistleblowers occasionally. Then there is a campaign to discredit the whistleblower or evidence. Then you all forget again.

Did you believe them when they claimed to "lose" the original Apollo 11 landing tapes? Would even an idiot do that? Would even an idiot believe they were "lost"? Not this idiot.

They were hidden in my opinion from public scrutiny. Why?

Yes.. Why?... That's pretty much my question in this thread... What motive would NASA have?

In case of the Apollo 11 tapes... do you believe that the footage showed something "alien"?... Or are you going in the "We never went to the moon" direction... ?

I still would have to go with the "we were short on tape and used them to record satellite transmissions" explanation...
OK, taping over the footage of perhaps the greatest achievement of mankind... does that sound completely idiotic? Yes, but it wouldn't be the first time an idiocy is true...

What in the world is a "peddle stool"?

Just wondering...

Actually think everyone is right to some extent in this thread...

reply to post by nv4711


My complaint about extraterrestrial cover-up conspiracy isn't just with NASA. Its with the entirety of the U.S. government and governments of the world in general. NASA just happens to be the most visible cover-up public relations arm in the USA.

If extraterrestrials are coming to this planet, and I have seen enough with my own eyes to think this is the case, then everything NASA does is a hoax perpetrated upon us all using our own tax dollars to do it.

I don't think everybody at NASA knows they are part of a cover-up. Only astronauts and those who have access to live feeds coming from space missions. The rest are in the dark and assume they're doing real work attempting to explore space using what limited tools are at their disposal there.

The opinion that NASA is an honest government organization doing real work and an apparatus of a cover-up are mutually exclusive. It cannot be both things at the same time. If you think NASA does real work then you must also believe they aren't covering anything up. If you think extraterrestrials are visiting this planet then you must necessarily think NASA is a fraudulent agency hiding what they've witnessed.

Originally posted by zorgon
So basically they don't have to tell us JACK if its under 'national defense or foreign policy" or just the whim of "Executive Order;".

I would assume that would include ANYTHING related to any Aliens

When it comes to foreign policy, I believe all foreigners are referred to as "aliens".

As long as the ET ships look indistinguishable from out of focus ice particles and paint chips which have come off our spacecraft, it would be pretty easy to keep the ET visitors a secret, but if they show up like in the movie "independence day", no presidential order is going to keep that a secret!

I'm still waiting for NASA to find microbes living in the liquid water on Mars. I doubt that will be considered a national security threat unless it turns out to be worse than the bubonic plague if they bring a sample back to Earth. It might not be a bad idea to just keep the Martians on Mars for now, if there are any.

reply to post by Toxicsurf


Yeah, I butchered that word badly...Pedestal, was the proper spelling.

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by 1questioner

 

in my humble opinion,
NASA was the greatest collection of minds collected for the greatest reason ever,
to do real science and exploration

the DOD and others were like having one leg tied behind your back, and still winning the race.
i think if we had proof, the chief seceret holders would not let us know as this would reduce their power to control us as a species

xploder

I truly agree with this statement about DOD causing a constent BS storm with top secret garbage we don't know all the interesting items flying around in orbit. And also hide the deaths of brave astronants in secret space programs.

But MY beef with NASA is they are the only ONLY group of people who make the wonder of space BORING! I watched a panel talk about the future possiblity of space (interesting, yes?) the experts who have a general idea of whats next...... blah blah BORING! I also saw a live feed from the space shuttle trying to fix the hubble (the essence of propaganda to make kids WANT to be space going people) and the commander came off as uncle Norm's slideshow of ROCKS, after 5 minutes as a child I thought "WOW how boring is space?" When they get there not even fun zero gravity stunts! If I was on board the shuttle I'd open the airlock on some of these boring SOB's.

So not only boring but a waste of cash some kid in Tacoma goes hungry, BUT we can SEE him starve to death on his front lawn from space in 1080i. GO NASA

Originally posted by Frith
reply to post by nv4711

 

My complaint about extraterrestrial cover-up conspiracy isn't just with NASA. Its with the entirety of the U.S. government and governments of the world in general. NASA just happens to be the most visible of the cover-up public relations arm in the USA.

If extraterrestrials are coming to this planet, and I have seen enough with my own eyes to think this is the case, then everything NASA does is a hoax perpetrated upon us all using our own tax dollars to do it.

I don't think everybody at NASA knows they are part of a cover-up. Only astronauts and those who have access to live feeds coming from space missions. The rest are in the dark and assume they're doing real work attempting to explore space using what limited tools are at their disposal there.

The opinion that NASA is an honest government organization doing real work and an apparatus of a cover-up are mutually exclusive. It cannot be both things at the same time. If you think NASA does real work then you must also believe they aren't covering anything up. If you think extraterrestrials are visiting this planet then you must necessarily think NASA is a fraudulent agency.

edit on 10-11-2011 by Frith because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your input, Frith.

See, what you're saying just seems wholly improbable to me because of the political realities that just don't allow a global conspiracy on such a scale to work for such a length of time.
For example (and it's just an example, not saying you or any other of the posters in this thread believe this) the infamous "Moon landing hoax"...
It is/was claimed that NASA faked the Apollo 11 landing... at the height of the cold war, the pet project of President Kennedy who humiliated the Russians during the Cuba crisis..the Moon landing as a political statement of the superiority of the western world over the commies...the US being in trouble in Vietnam, civil unrest in the US....
There is no way the Russians (and the Chinese) would have let the US get away with it.... They would have easily detected that the video / audio feed didn't come from the Moon, not to mention a rocket launch to fake the water landing, or Apollo 11 just being in Earth orbit or any other anomaly... Completely inconceivable they wouldn't have gone public with it.. the ultimate humiliation of the class enemy....

Today, it would mean to have at a minimum Russia, China, India, all major European countries, ESA, NASA, the military, government and non government research facilities to conspire... with 10s of thousands of people involved... and every 4 years new politicians need to be brought "up to speed" and buy into the conspiracy.... and for what? To hide ETs existence? Why even? I don't see the motive... Religion?..nuh.. Europe isn't even close as evangelical as the US...you're not going to win an election in say Germany because you're religious... the Chinese couldn't care less about religion... and at least Russia and China wouldn't accept a US led conspiracy where they're being dictated what to disclose and what to keep a secret...

So, just from the standpoint of political realities, I don't see that working...

Originally posted by nv4711
Yes.. Why?... That's pretty much my question in this thread... What motive would NASA have?

What makes you think NASA call the shots. Just because you are a Scientist, Engineer or Pilot (Astronaut) that doesn't give you the final say on anything. It ain't up to NASA what they disclose. Surely you aren't naive enough to believe that? I used to work for the UK gov't but not on anything as sensitive and we were briefed about what we could say to the public. Simple as that. Surely you aren't so blinkered you think that gov't employees can just say anything they like to anyone. Jeez...

I think they're hiding something. I think they have been to the moon but Apollo is not the full story and if Apollo went we weren't told everything.

I know there are aliens. Not sure whether that has anything to do with Apollo in particular.

Some people don't deserve to work this crap out. Fact!

Originally posted by Frith
The opinion that NASA is an honest government organization doing real work and an apparatus of a cover-up are mutually exclusive. It cannot be both things at the same time. If you think NASA does real work then you must also believe they aren't covering anything up. If you think extraterrestrials are visiting this planet then you must necessarily think NASA is a fraudulent agency hiding what they've witnessed.

edit on 10-11-2011 by Frith because: (no reason given)

More BS.

There are lots of Gov't depts and agencies that cover things up and do important work. These arguments are so weak I can barely raise a response.