A black brief case in the cupboard under the stairs

I have been an keen reader of this forum for a couple of years now,
I find freemasonry a fascinating subject ever since I found a small black briefcase in a cupboard under the stairs, when I opened it I found an apron inside
I have eves dropped on many a family gathering between my father and my uncles at my house and have to say I was fascinated. In later years, the apron is gone with my father and I am the sole custodian of an extensive library on the subject.
My world as a teenager was boring and so was the town.... I didnt want to grow up to be a welder, a banker or a shop assistant.... nothing wrong with doing those things, but I wanted more.
I took the cowardly way out and went to sea to see the world.... and that I did with great relish
Every home visit, i sat in the library and read those books to try and get closer to the family I have lost.
My father and his brothers were good men, honest and true. They were all Scottish rite and my father told me that he joined when he was 21yrs old, I started earwigging on their meetings when I was 14.
I cannot for the life of me see how they all became "better men" by learning the history of King Soloman and his mate Hiram Abif and the building of the temple, then later the escapades of the Templar Knights through Europe. I heard rehersals for most degrees upto 2 of C.
I will say now that there are no masons on ATS who are 33rd (S) or knights (Y).
3rd degree (master) masons in the blue (US) are ten a penny and know about as much esoteric knowledge as your local butcher (it really depends how much you read, not how many lodge meetings you attend).
brothers..... it is what it is... stop sitting on the woolsack & trying to fool everyone

MASON

M Mystical
A Ancient
S Secret
O Occult
N Nobility

The men in my family were everything but the last. In England You need to be of Noble bloodline to become 33rd (S) or a knight (Y).......In the States I have heard that you can get through all the degrees in a matter of a few months...... That alone tells me that they are just not the same degrees that my father and his brothers studied so hard for. In UK we do everything rite

GB = L&P

c'mon lads lets 'ave it ; )

PEACE,
RK

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
I will say now that there are no masons on ATS who are 33rd (S) or knights (Y).

Then you would be incorrect.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Is there a reason to make a ploy to call the bretheren out on this site? Whereby one can deduce the reasoning for this blatant post to bring the craft to light of skepticism... I have subdued my passions of pride to just let you make assumptions that are not withstanding and seems to err on tthe side of a cowan trying to press the buttons of the craft using pride....

I will concede from this thread because it is potentially harmful to my bretheren to argue a moot point of degrees that some equate to power, Whereas all bretheren are equal and regardless of degree are afforded the same respect.
I shall also uphold my oath to neither defend or deny the craft.


There are 33rd degree masons on this site that i know intimatly. So if you excuse me i'll tarry on back to the East.

reply to post by Rigel Kent


What's the deal man? Everyone in the UK is doing it "Rite"? Well I am a 32 degree Master Mason, Shriner, and Knights Templar. I joined freemasonry for the more esoteric/spiritual side that accompanies it. True that not a lot of brothers join for that reason, but there are many now who are joining for that reason (so far as I see). The story of King Solomon's Temple is veiled in allegory and symbolism. Each Mason gets out of it differently. There are many authors out there who have written fantastic books about the meaning of the degrees. From alchemy ritualistic meanings (Timothy Hogan's book) to W.L. Wilmshurst's book.

Freemasonry, surprisingly, is taking a change here in the States. One group called the MRF (Masonic Restoration Foundation) is a group that is trying to bring Freemasonry back to it's core roots, and not focus to much on the business or paying bills part of the lodge. I for one am trying to harness a more spiritual lodge of Masonry myself and see the value of changing the craft back to what it was prior to the Morgan Affair.

It's unfair to say that we aren't studying as hard as your family members did. Most of my studying, besides school, goes into my masonic research. Like I said there are more and more members joining who are looking for more than dinners and bill paying meetings in Freemasonry now days. We are becoming more and more active in making Masonry what it use to be.

reply to post by Rigel Kent
... S "they made themselves aprons" ... Now what does this have to do with Bi-Polar Jesus ... and the following statement...

Jesus(aka?) said/says, "Show me the stone that the builders rejected: that is the keystone."

Mr X-ULTRA/SW/LODGE... Amore intellectualis Dei...

reply to post by bushidomason


What did Masonry used to be?

reply to post by brice


It was more focused not on the community, but rather the individual. This philanthropic idea is new in Masonry. It is a debated topic within the Craft about what we are and where we are going. Freemasonry isn't for everyone and should be treated as such. The lodge was a breeding ground for intellectual and spiritual discussion and learning. To understand the degrees and transform the candidate into a new being before they were a mason. Freemasonry is an initiatory fraternity whereby we teach the initiate to become a master of himself. Lodges now days put most of their energy into the stated meetings and about what needs to be payed or when the next social gathering is.

The idea of Freemasonry needs to change back to the idea of transforming good men into better men. The newly raised Master Mason should feel that he has grown or progressed spiritually and intellectually through out his degrees. In my eyes, that is lacking horribly in Freemasonry. We play this game with our candidates by telling them that when they become Master Masons they can vote in lodge and that is what it's all about.Presentations or programs of history, poetry, music, masonic lectures, discussion of the arts and sciences, and philosophy played a vital and key role in the growth of its members. Very very few lodges that are not T.O. (Traditional Observance) lodges do this. The loss of younger members is due to the boring and unexciting stated meetings ,that we have, that lack these characteristics.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
I will say now that there are no masons on ATS who are 33rd (S) or knights (Y).

Then you would be incorrect.

Masonicus
I just knew that you would bite first
You cannot help yourself can you?
I will tell you now, there are no 33rd or knights on this site, whatever you have been told, forget it, they have better things to do

PEACE,
RK

reply to post by agentblue


Secret Society Forum = fair game
sorry my freind I am not calling anyone out.
I am telling a story and then saying there are no Knights or 33rds on this site.
If I am wrong and there are, let them approach the alter and reveal themselves in all their splendour

PEACE
RK,

I don't "get" the masons

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
I will tell you now, there are no 33rd or knights on this site, whatever you have been told, forget it, they have better things to do

Appak was a 33°. He's dead now. Lost in the Midwest became a 33° in the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiciton two years ago. He's not too active on ATS lately.

As to Knights Templar in the York Rite system, KSig is. Probably a few others. I'm not Christian, so even if I get into York Rite, I'm not going to join the Commandary.

But Yorkies aren't the only ones who have Templar degrees, the Scottish Rite has a few, primarily the 28th, "Knight of the Temple."

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
I will tell you now, there are no 33rd or knights on this site, whatever you have been told, forget it, they have better things to do...

I guess it must have been other people I was U2Uing.

reply to post by Rigel Kent


I have several friends that are 33 degree Masons, and a couple of Past Grand Masters, and Past Grand Commanders of the York Rite.

As for not being a "better man" from what they learned in the degree work, you are probably right. Masons learn to be better men just by associating with other better men. They learn by example. They have a safe sounding board for when they need a friendly ear, or an honest rebuttal. They have a safe repository for their secrets, and they have some basic ground rules for controlling their own passions. They also gain experience in politics of a Lodge, business of a Lodge, public speaking in a Lodge, chain of command in a Lodge, etc., etc.

Where else would I have ever learned to cook for 100 men in an hour?

Where else would I have ever met humble and pious men late in their age that could share wonderful stories, and pray in such a way that the walls trembled?

Honestly, most of the new members in my Lodge thought we had a PA system until the old guy passed away. He was extremely soft spoken and hunkered over, but when he knelt to pray, it was amazing and moving..... literally.

reply to post by Rigel Kent

You may say it, but you are wrong. I am a 32° Scottish Rite Mason along with others here, but as Josh pointed out there is at least 1 living 33° on this forum and I did have the pleasure of knowing Appak when he was alive.

As for no Knights, I would disagree as I and a few others here are Knights Templar (not Scottish Rite). I know quite a bit about the Masonic Templars, but near as much as MasonicLight. Currently I am the Senior Warden of my Commandery, but that changes tomorrow night as it is Election Night for my York Rite bodies.

I know many Masons who never went beyond the Blue Lodge, but are very knowledgeable in the history and symbolism of Freemasonry. Degree neither equals rank nor knowledge.

It depends on your jurisdiction on how fast you may progress through the degrees. In respects at least to the Royal Arch, we at least haven't pandered to anti-Masons and drastically changed our rituals. The history, evolution, and comparison of the various Templar orders, bodies, and rituals is a fascinating field of study, but one clouded in the fog of history and time.

reply to post by Rigel Kent

I also forgot to mention that I am to be the Worshipful Master for the Lodge of Research in my State, as well I as I belong to 2 invite-only, honorary bodies within the York Rite, but me belonging to those bodies means very little as my eagerness to learn and study did not begin when I joined the York Rite or the Scottish Rite.

reply to post by agentblue

He is calling the OP out because he is wrong in his assertions. It is not with pride that he is skeptic, but by knowledge.

reply to post by bushidomason

I haven't read any of Tim's books, but I have read his posts on alchemy. I am currently reading Cliff Porter's latest book.

The General Grand Chapter, Royal Arch Masons, International is also starting a "40's and Under" committee to help with restoring Masonry to what it once was and from my part, everyone I've talked to wants to improve the education programs, and get away from the stated meeting mantra.

reply to post by KSigMason


I would really like to see that happen. Meetings are becoming so dull that it's hard to stay awake at times sitting in the West. I am looking forward to getting into the line for the commandery and chapter after my year as Master in 2012.

reply to post by bushidomason

I waited to move up the York Rite line until after I was done with my time in the Eastern Chair.

At the first meeting of 2012 I plan on presenting my findings and my proposals. I haven't been appointed any spot in the Under 40's, but I am doing a lot of the work to make changes at least in my little sliver of Masonry in this world.

reply to post by bushidomason


congrats on the east. I am a year behind you.
What grand plans have you put together to make yourself memorable?

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
.. In England You need to be of Noble bloodline to become 33rd (S) or a knight (Y).......In the States I have heard that you can get through all the degrees in a matter of a few months...... That alone tells me that they are just not the same degrees that my father and his brothers studied so hard for. In UK we do everything rite...

I would agree with your opinion on the above fact.

It would be like those who get a 'black belt' in various martial arts in next-to-no-time.
Where as the same ranking took masters of old years upon years in the originating country.

Marketing and impatience ....
Smoke and mirrors ...

Originally posted by Rigel Kent
I cannot for the life of me see how they all became "better men" by learning the history of King Soloman and his mate Hiram Abif and the building of the temple, then later the escapades of the Templar Knights through Europe.

I don't remember anyone ever making that claim. One can become a better man by putting the ideals of Masonry into practice, though.

I will say now that there are no masons on ATS who are 33rd (S) or knights (Y).

I will now say that you are quite mistaken.

3rd degree (master) masons in the blue (US) are ten a penny and know about as much esoteric knowledge as your local butcher (it really depends how much you read, not how many lodge meetings you attend).

I agree with you on this completely.

In England You need to be of Noble bloodline to become 33rd (S) or a knight (Y)

No, you don't at all have to be of any noble bloodline in England.

In the States I have heard that you can get through all the degrees in a matter of a few months...... That alone tells me that they are just not the same degrees that my father and his brothers studied so hard for.

We have to study for it in the US too, and pass examinations on catechism to be admitted to the next degree. One's progress is based entirely upon his own efforts and talents, not some pre-made time schedule.