The mind creates what we call reality

According to your theory you didn't exist until I read your post and vise versa. This theory makes my head itch.

reply to post by Confusion42

Note however if I see one spreading misinformation I need not even check their avatar / name before I'l respond.

Typical..... I see you are displaying your ignorance again...

Keep your abuse going so others can then be aware of you... A "Troll"....

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Confusion42

 

Note however if I see one spreading misinformation I need not even check their avatar / name before I'l respond.

Typical..... I see you are displaying your ignorance again...

Keep your abuse going so others can then be aware of you... A "Troll"....

Wow, what is wrong with you?

How is engaging in debate / conversation ignorant?

Seems like YOUR the one that is ignorant because you seem to think debate / conversation is wrong?

Is that it? Maybe your lacking in a proper education.

So I'll say it again; I am here at ATS to

*Read and learn from all the wonderful people that post here

*In cases where I see clear misrepresentations of fact, assertions that a person's beliefs are fact, I kindly engage in the thread in order to clear up the misrepresentations in order for readers at ATS to not be conned in / mis-educated on topics.

*Make threads regarding important topics and than take a position and engage in friendly debate; This is something called "Political Discourse" maybe you should look it up

You seem to be here to call people ignorant; You are here to be disrespectful.

Shame on you.

reply to post by robile


I think there is some type of fractal component to it. Once something is changes, it is changed with in the whole. So If you create something, I will see it.

reply to post by Confusion42

How is engaging in debate / conversation ignorant?

Never said it was....

You need to learn some social skills by the sounds of things.

If you asked properly, instead of attacking me with stupid false accusations and personal slandering you might just get a debate...

But until you approach me showing some intelligence, I'm not really interested in communicating with you on this subject, especially just to receive more false accusations, insults and abuse from you....

I have better things to do with my time....

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Confusion42

 

How is engaging in debate / conversation ignorant?

Never said it was....

You need to learn some social skills by the sounds of things.

If you asked properly, instead of attacking me with stupid false accusations and personal slandering you might just get a debate...

But until you approach me showing some intelligence, I'm not really interested in communicating with you on this subject, especially just to receive more false accusations, insults and abuse from you....

I have better things to do with my time....

edit on 18-11-2011 by The Matrix Traveller because: (no reason given)

Please show me where I "attacked you" with "stupid false accusations" and "personal slandering"? Maybe there was a miss communication.

I can say the same about you, you know.

reply to post by Confusion42


but, I already did that back on page 2 of this thread, the FIRST time you came up in here with your name calling! you are a tricky fellow!


you claim that you are here to help us poor petty quantum mystics...

...but your true purpose, like so many members who preach about the "spirit of this forum", is to piss all over everything that you possibly can.

there is no substantiation that will appease the voracious crushers of this ALTERNATIVE science forum. I am an upper-division science student. I have so so many times offered proofs here on ATS. and every time, unfailingly, they are either pissed on, or the pissers leave the thread (presumably to go find an easier target).


are you, confusion, really having such a difficult time identifying the role you are playing here? well, then, I ask you this:

what, exactly, beyond mere pissing, have you contributed to this thread?

you think pissing is legitimate discourse?!


BE GONE!

reply to post by tgidkp


Your crazy.

Your attacking me because I said
"Seems like "What the Bleep Do You Know" (movie) snags another. "

Are you f**king serious? That's all it takes?

All I did was point out that what was being described by the OP was Quantum Mysticism.

THEIRS NOTHING WRONG WITH Quantum Mysticism! It's a belief more than science (it mixes science with assumes and beliefs).

Cry babies

Originally posted by Confusion42

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Confusion42

 

How is engaging in debate / conversation ignorant?

Never said it was....

You need to learn some social skills by the sounds of things.

If you asked properly, instead of attacking me with stupid false accusations and personal slandering you might just get a debate...

But until you approach me showing some intelligence, I'm not really interested in communicating with you on this subject, especially just to receive more false accusations, insults and abuse from you....

I have better things to do with my time....

edit on 18-11-2011 by The Matrix Traveller because: (no reason given)

Please show me where I "attacked you" with "stupid false accusations" and "personal slandering"? Maybe there was a miss communication.

I can say the same about you, you know.

No offense.... but try reading what you write for a start...

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Read your OP. You start off sounding all "sciency" and then quickly devolve into complete conjecture and personal opinion.You then spend the rest of your thread attempting to refute anyone who dare challenge the scientific validity of your claim. For example, in response to Arbitrageur (who is possibly one of the most scientifically literate posters in this forum), you ignore his entire, informative post where he posted scientific literature to support his argument and respond with this:

There isn't any evidence that a macro scale exists. What we call a macro scale is just a projection of quantum information emanating from the Observer.

That's a distortion of science to suite your agenda. It's an opinion dressed up to sound "sciencey" but has no real science to back it up. Then, in the same post, you say this:

Some in science just assume that there's a macro scale. This is just an assumption and it isn't scientific.

No, your assumption isn't scientific. You're implying that the science is on your side yet again this is your own, unsubstantiated opinion dressed up as science. You follow that sentence with this one:

Subatomic particles are like pixels that illuminate quantum information that comes from the mind of the observer.

See how you're blending your opinion with "sciency" sounding statements to pass them off as scientific fact? That's a distortion of science. You then wrap up your post with this:

So everything is information that emanates from the mind of the observer and there's no scientific evidence for an objective reality outside of information. The problem occurs because people treat the projected reality as an objective reality.

The entire premise of scientific method rests on the assumption that reality is objective. Not only that, but examples of the objectivity of reality have been presented in this very thread. So again, you claim science is on your side but alas it is not, you've made a bunch of assumptions and tacked on some sciencey sounding statements to lend credibility to your argument. That's a distortion of science.

I could go on. That was only one post. You've now spent the tail end of this thread avoiding any serious debate and accusing those who have the audacity to ask you to support your claims with evidence (in a Science & technology forum? Perish the thought!) of "hating" you and "having no respect". If that's your opinion, cool, don't bother posting your opinions if that's how you're going to respond. Just don't expect to be able to post your personal, unsubstantiated opinions in this forum without being challenged.

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

Read your OP. You start off sounding all "sciency" and then quickly devolve into complete conjecture and personal opinion.You then spend the rest of your thread attempting to refute anyone who dare challenge the scientific validity of your claim. For example, in response to Arbitrageur (who is possibly one of the most scientifically literate posters in this forum), you ignore his entire, informative post where he posted scientific literature to support his argument and respond with this:

There isn't any evidence that a macro scale exists. What we call a macro scale is just a projection of quantum information emanating from the Observer.

That's a distortion of science to suite your agenda. It's an opinion dressed up to sound "sciencey" but has no real science to back it up. Then, in the same post, you say this:

Some in science just assume that there's a macro scale. This is just an assumption and it isn't scientific.

No, your assumption isn't scientific. You're implying that the science is on your side yet again this is your own, unsubstantiated opinion dressed up as science. You follow that sentence with this one:

Subatomic particles are like pixels that illuminate quantum information that comes from the mind of the observer.

See how you're blending your opinion with "sciency" sounding statements to pass them off as scientific fact? That's a distortion of science. You then wrap up your post with this:

So everything is information that emanates from the mind of the observer and there's no scientific evidence for an objective reality outside of information. The problem occurs because people treat the projected reality as an objective reality.

The entire premise of scientific method rests on the assumption that reality is objective. Not only that, but examples of the objectivity of reality have been presented in this very thread. So again, you claim science is on your side but alas it is not, you've made a bunch of assumptions and tacked on some sciencey sounding statements to lend credibility to your argument. That's a distortion of science.

I could go on. That was only one post. You've now spent the tail end of this thread avoiding any serious debate and accusing those who have the audacity to ask you to support your claims with evidence (in a Science & technology forum? Perish the thought!) of "hating" you and "having no respect". If that's your opinion, cool, don't bother posting your opinions if that's how you're going to respond. Just don't expect to be able to post your personal, unsubstantiated opinions in this forum without being challenged.

First thank you for both your time and efforts, but I think you are confusing me with someone else ???


You wrote... Quote;

Read your OP. You start off sounding all "sciency" and then quickly devolve into complete conjecture and personal opinion.You then spend the rest of your thread attempting to refute anyone who dare challenge the scientific validity of your claim. For example, in response to Arbitrageur (who is possibly one of the most scientifically literate posters in this forum), you ignore his entire, informative post where he posted scientific literature to support his argument and respond with this:

There isn't any evidence that a macro scale exists. What we call a macro scale is just a projection of quantum information emanating from the Observer.

Sorry these are Not my words....

Please give exact details of the article I have written, giving the Title of the thread, Date etc and a copy and paste of the comments I have made...

And you wrote... Quote;

That's a distortion of science to suite your agenda. It's an opinion dressed up to sound "sciencey" but has no real science to back it up. Then, in the same post, you say this:

Some in science just assume that there's a macro scale. This is just an assumption and it isn't scientific.

Sorry NOT my words again, perhaps you are NOT looking at my Threads but you are confusing me with someone else?

And you wrote.... Quote;

No, your assumption isn't scientific. You're implying that the science is on your side yet again this is your own, unsubstantiated opinion dressed up as science. You follow that sentence with this one:

Subatomic particles are like pixels that illuminate quantum information that comes from the mind of the observer.

Sorry these are NOT my words Either....

Again you wrote... Quote;

See how you're blending your opinion with "sciency" sounding statements to pass them off as scientific fact? That's a distortion of science. You then wrap up your post with this:

I think you have the wrong person here ????

You wrote.... quote;

So everything is information that emanates from the mind of the observer and there's no scientific evidence for an objective reality outside of information. The problem occurs because people treat the projected reality as an objective reality.

Again NOT my words... Sorry...

And you wrote... Quote;

The entire premise of scientific method rests on the assumption that reality is objective. Not only that, but examples of the objectivity of reality have been presented in this very thread. So again, you claim science is on your side but alas it is not, you've made a bunch of assumptions and tacked on some sciencey sounding statements to lend credibility to your argument. That's a distortion of science.

I could go on. That was only one post. You've now spent the tail end of this thread avoiding any serious debate and accusing those who have the audacity to ask you to support your claims with evidence (in a Science & technology forum? Perish the thought!) of "hating" you and "having no respect". If that's your opinion, cool, don't bother posting your opinions if that's how you're going to respond. Just don't expect to be able to post your personal, unsubstantiated opinions in this forum without being challenged.

No need to because thesae are NOT my words.... I think you are confusing me with someone else....

Once again thank you for your time and effort and your sincerity...

I just wish I could help more...

If you have other comments regarding my Threads I will only be to happyn to discuss them.
Perhaps you can make these comments on my Threads rather than being off topic in this thread.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller

First thank you for both your time and efforts, but I think you are confusing me with someone else ???

Thanks for taking the time to read them

Please give exact details of the article I have written, giving the Title of the thread, Date etc and a copy and paste of the comments I have made..

This post here.


EDIT: Wow, now that's confusing "Matrix Rising" is the OP and "The Matrix Traveller" is someone completely different. Sorry The Matrix Traveller, please disregard my post, I had you confused with the OP.

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller

First thank you for both your time and efforts, but I think you are confusing me with someone else ???

Thanks for taking the time to read them

Please give exact details of the article I have written, giving the Title of the thread, Date etc and a copy and paste of the comments I have made..

This post here.


EDIT: Wow, now that's confusing

"Matrix Rising" is the OP and "The Matrix Traveller" is someone completely different. Sorry The Matrix Traveller, please disregard my post, I had you confused with the OP.

edit on 18-11-2011 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)

LOL....No Problem I respected your approach...

I only get a little P%^% off with some...
Fortunately only a very, very few on ATS...
Mostly I enjoy discussion with most members.

I am willing to debate on the subjects I am most interested in.
The area involving Optical Interfaces with the Mind, interests me the most, as it is my full time occupation, and has been for the last 17 years.

I am interested in Philosophy, but only as a hobby.

I have tried to bridge the gap, by explaining some technology contained (Lost) in ancient writings but found this to be a total waist of time.

I am about to start another thread involving the technical side of my full time occupation, and keep the door firmly shut to religious philosophy or any other Mumbo Jumbo...

Thank you once again for your time and effort, just sorry I couldn't debate anything with you, but you are most welcome to inquire more, if you so desire.

I have also made similar errors in the past myself as you have just made, so don't worry about it, I fully understand...

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller

Originally posted by Confusion42

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Confusion42

 

How is engaging in debate / conversation ignorant?

Never said it was....

You need to learn some social skills by the sounds of things.

If you asked properly, instead of attacking me with stupid false accusations and personal slandering you might just get a debate...

But until you approach me showing some intelligence, I'm not really interested in communicating with you on this subject, especially just to receive more false accusations, insults and abuse from you....

I have better things to do with my time....

edit on 18-11-2011 by The Matrix Traveller because: (no reason given)

Please show me where I "attacked you" with "stupid false accusations" and "personal slandering"? Maybe there was a miss communication.

I can say the same about you, you know.

No offense.... but try reading what you write for a start...

You started the name calling, abuse, and false accusations.
All Because I Said, "Seems like "What the Bleep Do You Know" (movie) snags another. "

This is goofy. Of course things exist when not being measured by human perception. Theres 4 pages arguing this? The universe is created by our perceptions? If the candle stopped existing when you left the house, it couldn't tip and Burn the place down.the universe existed before we did. Or did we create the fossil record with our minds to?

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Kudos for responding gracefully I must admit, I was darting back and forth, double checking and thinking "but... it's right there! I'm staring at your post! How can you not see this!?" before the penny dropped

reply to post by Confusion42

It is impossible to find out what produces this so called universe by studying it.

The Universe is the end product and Not the Cause.

Its a bit like trying to find out how a "3rd person video game" is produced, by watching the game on screen, as it does Not tell you how it was made.

The Universe you believe to be a part of is similar to a Video 3rd person game being played on a network.

What produces the Video Game is Nothing like the Game itself...

Our body is only one of the "Components" of the Program, but the Observer, that is your Mind, is NOT inside the game but instead is "Non-Dimensional" and observes from outside the Game.

But as the Program has been made so well it makes us feel that the Universe and our body is the only Reality... LOL.

It is only the Quality and sophistication of the Game that makes us believe the Universe is the ONLY Reality when in fact All has been Produced by the Real Self which is both Non Dimensional
and consists of nothing at all like this little Universe which includes Energy or Matter or anything else the Species can contemplate.

The Flesh is the "Experience" and NOT the one Experiencing....

If "Awareness" looses connection with the "Species" (Our Body) the body is said to be dead, because the body Lacks LIFE.

Today we believe the Universe is the World we are a part of, but this is as wrong as believing the Earth is a flat table.... that is if this was the belief in past history ?? Which I doubt anyway but that's another story.

The Universe is generated from a "Memory Map", which is able to be scrolled across your field of Vision and interactivity, producing the Illusion of a 3D universe. (Without getting into how many dimensions the species can dream up.)

We each have our own Copy of the Universe in our real selves and are part of a network.

Our real self looks nothing at all like what is found in this little universe...

So each of our real worlds, only involves our field of Vision and interactivity. (Not that of the Primate)

These comments were made as a result of my full time Occupation.
(ATS advises Not to release any private information regarding Identity details.)

You wrote.... Quote;

Prove that what you say is fact.

Can you prove to me anything regarding your Employment ?

Or do I even ask you ?

You wrote.. Quote;

As it stands, what you say is belief, at best.

An assumption on your behalf... Based solely on your Ignorance i.e. lacking knowledge of the existence of what R&D is taking place in your world.

Do I call your line of work only a belief at best ?

So I find your social skills insulting to say the least...

Just because there are unknowns in quantum physics, and unknowns about why we as humans are here, doesn't mean they are connected.

So....

You wrote... Quote.

This is called Quantum Mysticism. Read the wiki

What's this got to do with my line of Work ?

I find your remarks quite distasteful and insulting..... to say the very least...

Do I accuse your employment as involving Mysticism ?

You wrote... Quote;

I am not saying specifically that "your wrong."

I should hope Not...

You wrote... Quote;

I actually like your belief.

Do I call your Employment Only a belief ?

You wrote.... Quote;

But I can't view it as truth because it's not something that has been thoroughly tested

Are you saying that, involving the development of Optical Interfaces with The Mind, that nothing is being tested ?

Get a grip of yourself man, you are like a wild bull in a Glass house....

You wrote.... Quote;

and experimented and independently proven.

This is so recent (over the last 17 years) it will be some time before all will be released... if at all.

You wrote.... Quote;

It's similar to religion (minus the cultism that religion sometimes is) in that it's a belief.

What a Lot of Rubbish.... You are Way, Way, Way, too "Superstitious".


The Work I am involved with, is very, very involved Technology...

There exists a manual on the "Operating System" involving more than 50,000 Geometric Drawings and probably more than 10,000 pages of written documentation involving the operating system alone... let alone software resources.

And you refer to this in total ignorance, as being... Quote;

Mysticism

and....
Quote;

It's similar to religion (minus the cultism that religion sometimes is) in that it's a belief.

Do you really compare "Computer Sciences" to to this.. Quote;

It's similar to religion (minus the cultism that religion sometimes is) in that it's a belief.

Get a grip of yourself man.

And you wonder in amazement why I responded the way I do...

Reality is what exists even when there are no lifeforms with consciousness enough to modify those contents of spacetime within its effective range. How your mind interprets this same reality is dependent on very many variables. Yet using your mind alone does not modify the spacetime contents, or their kinetics, of reality.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller




Your post is beyond ignorant.

These comments were made as a result of my full time Occupation. (ATS advises Not to release any private information regarding Identity details.)

Ok, this is the first time any sort of full time Occupation is mentioned. Note that without knowing one's occupation, and since you wont post it, what point are you trying to make?

What's this got to do with my line of Work ? I find your remarks quite distasteful and insulting..... to say the very least... Do I accuse your employment as involving Mysticism ? You wrote... Quote;

How the hell am I supposed to know? You didn't post your line of work, you ignorant person.

Did you even read what it is? There's nothing wrong with QUANTUM MYSTICISM.

Your showing your ignorance again by not even looking up the definition.

I have to now assume your line of work is religious in nature; If so, your line of work is religious, based on belief, not fact.

Do I call your Employment Only a belief ?

Again with this employment!

Is something really that wrong with you?

Are you saying that, involving the development of Optical Interfaces with The Mind, that nothing is being tested ? Get a grip of yourself man, you are like a wild bull in a Glass house...

So are you a minister or Neuro-Optical Interface developer?

What the hell does this have to do with the REAL WORLD WE LIVE IN

Do you not see the difference between a mind controlled computer device your making and THE REAL WORLD?

Is the video game Mario the real world?

This is so recent (over the last 17 years) it will be some time before all will be released... if at all.

Ok and

What a Lot of Rubbish.... You are Way, Way, Way, too "Superstitious". The Work I am involved with, is very, very involved Technology... There exists a manual on the "Operating System" involving more than 50,000 Geometric Drawings and probably more than 10,000 pages of written documentation involving the operating system alone... let alone software resources. And you refer to this in total ignorance, as being..

What does this have to do with The Universe?

What did you bring up your employment?

Are you stupid?

Do you really compare "Computer Sciences" to to this..

What are you talking about? Your being ambiguous and what your talking has nothing to do with the topic, the universe and how the universe works.

Get a grip of yourself man. And you wonder in amazement why I responded the way I do...

How the hell does making some mind controlled computer have anything to do with the universe and how it works?

If your original post

It is impossible to find out what produces this so called universe by studying it. The Universe is the end product and Not the Cause. Its a bit like trying to find out how a "3rd person video game" is produced, by watching the game on screen, as it does Not tell you how it was made. The Universe you believe to be a part of is similar to a Video 3rd person game being played on a network.

describes your device, ok....

How does it describe the way the world works as fact?

I am not religious (agnostic); But your literally acting like that just because your the "creator" of this neuro-computer device that your qualified to say as fact that this universe needed a creator?

And because your creating this device you know how this universe real live in works? How are they related?

Is something, in all seriousness, wrong with you?

Interesting theory. I'd like to comment on it, as a rationalist and impericist who has tackled the question in the past.

When I first approached this question, it was based on the question "If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to experience it, does it make a sound?" My answer to the question was, "It must, or it did not fall." Why? The answer to the followup question provided my understanding of reality.

To suppose that we, as living beings, are the sole repositories of knowledge is hubris. The universe is full of repositories of knowledge. That we interpret such knowledge while the universe does not makes no difference. The results of every action are there, somewhere, and may be discovered or not. The discovery does not change the fact that everything has affected everything else in the universe.

When the tree falls, it lands on the ground. The ground is moved slightly. The earth is moved slightly. This has a slight, if negligible effect on the sun, and the tiny effects propogate outward to the entire universe. Even if no-one acknowledges that the effects have happened, the effects still acted upon their surroundings. The sound which travelled based on the fall did not have to be 'heard' by us to be 'heard' by the other trees and the rocks and the air. The results might disappear into chaos, but the chaos itself is unalterably changed as well. One might as well ask, "If I make a record and nobody plays it, does the analog recording exist?" The recording exists because the universe was changed in some small way. Our perception of it is immaterial.

When you walked to the store, you breathed air. Your feet moved the earth beneath your feet. You created sound and light bounced off of your clothing. All of these things alter the chaotic systems around you, even if such alterations cannot be traced. So regardless of whether anyone meets you or not, you actually did what you think you did.

Schroedinger's Cat was either alive, or dead. Our perception of this is immaterial. Either the cat gave off heat which was absorbed and/or conducted by its prison, or it didn't. Such heat need not be measured by intelligence to record its presence on its environment, so the cat had a definite state at all times. Just because we don't understand why something happened doesn't mean that we must try to rationalize mystical thinking.