How and Why would any new Greek government be obligated to pay the old Greek governments DEBT?

Explanation: So should any new Greek government take on the debts of the old Greek government?

If yes or no, then how and why?

Personal Disclosure: I am wondering why any new governement should be lumbered with the debts of the old government and it amazes me that there seems to be NO WAY OUT except for maybe war ... over fake funny fiat money!

I see it like this ...

100 trillion fake $$$'s = zero real world worth BECAUSE ITS FAKE CA$H!

Forged (i.e fake)/ PRINTED money has no real face value!

If I was the new Greek Prime Minister I'd say its not my problem that the old Greek government decided to play a GAME of Monopoly and lost! I am a new player and all old bets and deals are OFF!

What do my fellow ATS members have to say on this subject?

reply to post by OmegaLogos

Explanation: So should any new Greek government take on the debts of the old Greek government?

The new Greek government would be the same the old Greek puppet government, they wont be any different.

I'm guessing if the IMF guy gets the post of Prime Minister then I feel it is quite clear the old gov and referendum has been shoved to one side by outside pressure in favour of a Gov that supports the austerity measures and paying back the debt.. and it leaves me wondering how far they would go (and what methods they would use) to ensure that debt is paid!

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Explanation: I'm not saying they would be any different and whats that got to do with whether they should be obligated to pay the old Greek governments debts?

Personal Disclosure: Please stay on topic ok!

Simple, the world's banks view government debt as the debt of the people. Thus, the people haven't changed, only the faces selected to "represent" the people. This is why austerity measures slapped onto countries start and stop with huge tax increases and reductions to benefits and public spending. The people take it in the shorts, not the politicians.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Explanation: St*rred!

Personal Disclosure: So you feel that any new Greek Governement would be under threat of war by external forces such as the IMF countries etc. and because of that reason alone they SHOULD be obligated to pay?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Explanation: St*rred!

Simple, the world's banks view government debt as the debt of the people.

Personal Disclosure: Do you have any credible information that backs up that claim legally?

reply to post by OmegaLogos


It's the debt of Greece, not the Government..
The Government is merely the current representative..

What you should be asking is why a child, not even born yet, will still be lumbered with this debt in years to come..
They didn't vote and certainly didn't see any benefit from this debt incurred..

reply to post by ipleadthe5th


Explanation: St*rred!

It's the debt of Greece, not the Government..
The Government is merely the current representative..

Personal Disclosure: Can you prove that is the case with any credible information please?

P.S. You bring up a very important issue ...

What you should be asking is why a child, not even born yet, will still be lumbered with this debt in years to come..
They didn't vote and certainly didn't see any benefit from this debt incurred..

... and I will deeply consider making a thread on that explicit issue when I have found out what the actual legalities and who is responsible for the current Debt Crisis! [If you don't beat me to doing that ]

Allowing Politicians to borrow money 'on the peoples behalf' - is the worst idea ever!

reply to post by OmegaLogos

Personal Disclosure: Can you prove that is the case with any credible information please?

Greece is a very old country with ancient laws..
You would have to go back a long way to find the records where the people voted for the current form of Government.
But you do understand they hold regular elections where ALL citizens vote on who they choose to represent them?
That should be all the proof you need..

reply to post by OmegaLogos


While there is no obligation to pay a loan shark, threats of broken legs tends to lend a certain amount of compliance in paying debts. In this case it seems there is a certain amount of outside pressure to form a gov that is compliant with the wishes of the creditors rather than the wishes of the people, if successful such a move would avert any bumping of heads between nations, but will in my opinion make the bumping of heads between the establishment and the people that much worse.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

Explanation: St*rred!

Simple, the world's banks view government debt as the debt of the people.

Personal Disclosure: Do you have any credible information that backs up that claim legally?

I'm not exactly sure what type of credible information you would be looking for here other than to just advise you look around the world today and see it in action. Ireland raided private pension funds to pay sovereign debt, governments are attempting to increase taxes right and left to pay the debts, and money that was already owed to the people of countries like Greece is instead being rerouted to pay the debts. Legally speaking, it really doesn't matter whether this is "right" or "wrong" (what the banks & governments are doing) because the governments make the laws. The inmates run the asylums now and that's never a good situation.

reply to post by ipleadthe5th


Explanation: St*rred!

Personal Disclosure: No I don't understand that, as the recent riots in Greece tell me that the MAJORITY of the people are not happy with the way the representatives have handled this, and so in my eyes the country is in a political state of flux and the OLD rules and agreements no longer apply. Its been at least a year long civil war by proxy between the citizens of Greece and the OLD governments security forces!

It seems that they have changed their minds collectively and unfortunately I agree that there seems no way out except for war to occure either internally as a civil war OR by being externally invaded by angry bankster led mercinary armies.

Think that's messed up?

Haiti was forced to incurr the debts garnered during its revolution in hte 18th century. Namely, it owed France for lost property - the lost property in question being the rebel slaves themselves! That's right, France - with the backing of the US Navy - demanded that the slaves who had just freed themselves actually buy themselves... plus interest. Haiti never really recovered from that.

Also insane? when the ANC and national Parties of South Africa negotiated on the transfer of power at the end of Apartheid, somehow the ANC got saddled with paying the debts of the departing government... which then proceeded to spend billions the country didn't have on military hardware the country didn't need. The "owner" caste then took everything out of the treasury and banks. Cue the IMF which agrees to help the new govenrment of South Africa... in exchange for insane austerity measures.

Greece is just the new negro for the same players to whip.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Explanation: St*rred!

Personal Disclosure: I unfortunately concur with your assesment of the situation at face value!

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Explanation: Oh a simple bank invoice statemnet billing the "People of Greeece" and listing all the ACTUAL names of those required to pay said DEBT! That would convince me that there is an actual contract that should be enforced.

Personal Disclosure: I am seeing it ... I can't seem to make sense of what I am seeing and so I made this thread and unfortunately I am none the wiser so far except for the looming war and bloodshed that seems to be on the horizon and closing fast!

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Explanation: St*rred!

Personal Disclosure: Really! Thanks for bringing that to my attention and yes its messed up!

But back to the current debt crisis and the main question IN my OP!...

So should any new Greek government take on the debts of the old Greek government?

If yes or no, then how and why?

I'd like to read you point of view on the question I posed if you have one! Thanks!

Greece borrowed that money in good faith, they could choose not to pay it back. It has happened many times before, Spain defaulted 7 times in the 17/1800s. During Lenin's revolution it was declared that they would not be paying back government debt. More recently countries in Africa and other unstable countries have defaulted.

The problems for Greece if they do this is:

They will get kicked out of the euro, Greece as a smaller euro member has a fair bit to loose if they leave.

No one would want to lend to Greece in the near future, under the current monetary system this would cripple their economy.

They would loose a lot of trade and trust, again crippling the economy.

Wealthy Greek citizens would likely flee the country as they couldn't be sure that the Greek government would not confiscate their wealth.

The list could go on and on.

Hope that helps.

I think they would be obligated to pay the debt although obviously against their will. I guess it comes to down to how quickly they want to get back on their feet - attracting investors and capital will not be easy if they default. It will return but at a very slow rate. China, for example, has invested tens of billions (if not more) on Greek debt and would get seriously burnt by any default. As China seems to be the investor of choice in Europe (as no other nations appear to have spare cash) i genuinely would not see them rushing back in if they get burnt by Greek default. Likewise, a lot of the Euro zone countries i am sure would harbour grudges (probably privately held rather than publically mentioned) as such a default would inevitably lead to the break up of the Euro.

The Greek people are due for suffering whatever the outcome. I don't personally agree with this but see no other outcome.