The creation of religion and the lack of further proof..

Nineveh... former grand city of the Assyrian Empire and center of Ishtar worship. The Biblical prophet Nahum decried it's debauchery and prophesied that it would be destroyed and laid waste. In 612 BC it was as described in the Bible.

It became a myth and most scholars of the 17th and 18th century thought it a myth. However, about 1847 it was rediscovered...located as recorded in the Bible... with all the trappings and evidence of being a grand city and center of Ishtar worship... just as described in the Bible.

There... one thing in the Bible that is fact.

In Exodus... the Israelites dined on Manna or in Hebrew...Man. It is still found there today... it is a sweet, fiborous secretion from the Tamarisk Tree and is still used by the bedouins in the Sinai region today.

In the area of the Sinai further south is Zaranick... a bird sanctuary...in the desert. As the birds migrate south, they rest here. Sometimes the birds... especially quail, are so thick they literally fall from the sky... a phenomenon that can still be witnessed today...just as described in the Book of Exodus... in the Bible.

Another fact...proven... from the Bible.

reply to post by br0ker


There is no evidence to support or negate God. Therefore I assume the position of agnosticism.

The ten commandments are basically instilled in us. We know right from wrong instinctually. Do we really need any religion espousing a moral road of decorum?

No we don't. We are distinctively human and capable of higher thought.

Cheers OP.

Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by br0ker

 

There is no evidence to support or negate God. Therefore I assume the position of agnosticism.

The ten commandments are basically instilled in us. We know right from wrong instinctually. Do we really need any religion espousing a moral road of decorum?

No we don't. We are distinctively human and capable of higher thought.

Cheers OP.

I don`t really know Brilab45. I`m inclined to believe that without the fear of hell people may have less holding them back from doing harm on others. Cheers... on a tuesday! =)

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Nineveh... former grand city of the Assyrian Empire and center of Ishtar worship. The Biblical prophet Nahum decried it's debauchery and prophesied that it would be destroyed and laid waste. In 612 BC it was as described in the Bible.

It became a myth and most scholars of the 17th and 18th century thought it a myth. However, about 1847 it was rediscovered...located as recorded in the Bible... with all the trappings and evidence of being a grand city and center of Ishtar worship... just as described in the Bible.

There... one thing in the Bible that is fact.

Where in the bible does it say that it would be destroyed and laid waste? I will be willing to bet, that as so many other things in religion, it can be interpreted as a multitude of things.

* gonna check it out...

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
In Exodus... the Israelites dined on Manna or in Hebrew...Man. It is still found there today... it is a sweet, fiborous secretion from the Tamarisk Tree and is still used by the bedouins in the Sinai region today.

In the area of the Sinai further south is Zaranick... a bird sanctuary...in the desert. As the birds migrate south, they rest here. Sometimes the birds... especially quail, are so thick they literally fall from the sky... a phenomenon that can still be witnessed today...just as described in the Book of Exodus... in the Bible.

Another fact...proven... from the Bible.

Well, as many other things "proven" it is geographic in nature. The only things I have seen proven are geographical locations that fits in with biblical descriptions. I was expecting something more conclusive to come out of this thread. But I guess there isn`t anything else.

Originally posted by Northwarden
reply to post by br0ker

 

I believe that you should be respecting about what happens to people in their lives, even if it crosses spiritual boundaries. For example, if you hear on here two stories, here, have two examples (totally ficticious):

Example 1.

"I went to the store today and bought seven packages of Sidekicks for 25 cents apiece because they had a going out of business sale".

Example 2.

"I had a moment at lunchtime, and an angel of the Lord spoke to me, and told me to let us all know that there is a life after this one, and that we should resolve our faith issues".

Both are possible, but will you ever check into either? What if the means of checking into story B was just as possible as story A, but you needed a different set of senses to play, and a stronger sense of faith to believe the answers?

Good example, but you will be better off not confusing trust with faith. One is trusting that what the person that said it is correct. The other one is faith believing it is real. Number one you don`t need faith to recognize that it might be real, because it`s normal. Number two is not real since there are no recorded or proven events and no second person or place to confirm it.

Originally posted by spacekc929
You are absolutely right that nothing in the Bible can be proven. Catholics (who comprise of more Christians in the world than all Protestant religions combined, and is the particular poison I happen to subscribe to) don't even really believe in the stories of the Bible. We believe in Evolution not Creationism, we don't believe in Noah, etc. Christianity is not really about whether those events happened. As a theologian told me about a month ago, Catholicism is a religion of the spirit, not a religion of the book. I am obviously not speaking for all Christians, for many Protestants are very attached to the Bible, but a great majority of Christians in the world don't give a sh*t if Noah actually put two of every animal on the ark.

Because it's not about proving the Bible true, in the end. Who cares if Moses really existed or not? Why does that matter to me right now? What benefit does it grant me if I find out that yes, God's finger at one point wrote some stuff on a stone tablet for some Jews in the wilderness?

---------

What matters to me is God and his presence in my life now. The spirit of the religion, the spirit of the Bible, not the words. Messages of liberation, of love, of acceptance, and of forgiveness. I can't speak for all, but this is what I believe to be the true function of the Bible. Religion is not about whether or not Biblical things happened, but about how God is present in our lives now, and how he was present to people then as well. The spirit of the stories, not the literal word, because human words change all the time but the spirit of God does not.

So asking for proof is meaningless. It doesn't matter if these things really happened. In the end, it doesn't matter one way or the other to our relationship with God. You can try to find evidence of Biblical truth all you want, and that is all well and good, but it's missing the point of what religion is really about. Proof one way or the other does not change anything because it doesn't matter if the stories literally happened.

I`ll just stop you midways, where I made a pause in your quote. Because if the bible isn`t based on real events then it`s all pure fiction. You might as well believe in the force from Star Wars. And if you did believe in it, you might get the power to live for many hundred years. That would be the spirit in your life, the point is that you would have something to latch on to for comfort of the "afterlife" and something to pray to for help in difficult times.

I see the value in doing so, I just don`t believe it is true. On the other hand, the philosopher(s) that wrote the bible (if it isn`t true) were incredible foreseeing/insightful. He/them gave the world what it needed to prosper, and I thank him/them for that.

Israel will become a nation with the Jews returning from all areas of the globe. That was predicted 2000 years ago. The same with the Arabs and Jews being enemies for ever. Frankly the Bible predicted a lot that is happening right now. One thing that has not happened is the total destruction of Damascus, This may happen soon.

reply to post by charles1952


You`re second example. She was given the Eucharist. Are you even sure what she was given and how it was "prepared"?

There are multiple recordings of miraculous recoveries / healings, and many of them not in any way connected to God or Faith.

I will also add that it has been long been said that people in a coma can hear everything around them and are fully aware for the duration of the comatose.

Originally posted by br0ker

Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by br0ker

 

There is no evidence to support or negate God. Therefore I assume the position of agnosticism.

The ten commandments are basically instilled in us. We know right from wrong instinctually. Do we really need any religion espousing a moral road of decorum?

No we don't. We are distinctively human and capable of higher thought.

Cheers OP.

I don`t really know Brilab45. I`m inclined to believe that without the fear of hell people may have less holding them back from doing harm on others. Cheers... on a tuesday! =)

We don't have the need for the fear of hell anymore. We have the law to make us cow down. Truly I think we are living in hell now.

Is Tuesday too early?

Originally posted by brilab45

Originally posted by br0ker

Originally posted by brilab45
reply to post by br0ker

 

There is no evidence to support or negate God. Therefore I assume the position of agnosticism.

The ten commandments are basically instilled in us. We know right from wrong instinctually. Do we really need any religion espousing a moral road of decorum?

No we don't. We are distinctively human and capable of higher thought.

Cheers OP.

I don`t really know Brilab45. I`m inclined to believe that without the fear of hell people may have less holding them back from doing harm on others. Cheers... on a tuesday! =)

We don't have the need for the fear of hell anymore. We have the law to make us cow down. Truly I think we are living in hell now.

Is Tuesday too early?

Nah, tuesday is fine, bible doesn`t say anything about drinking. As long as you don`t do anything excessive on Sunday.

reply to post by jondave


Given enough time every prophecy in the world will come true. That`s why prophecies are BS.

reply to post by br0ker

Number one you don`t need faith to recognize that it might be real, because it`s normal. Number two is not real since there are no recorded or proven events and no second person or place to confirm it.

Careful there, that's a logical fallacy on your part in regards to number two. If you are blindfolded in a jumgle at night, a cricket chirps, and you can't find the cricket, was the event "not real" because the event wasn't recorded or proven, and there was no second person to confirm it? Reductio ad absurdium doesn't come into play, there is no red herring either.

Two other fallacies could become your arguement here :
Popular sentiment (argumentum ad populum—appeal to the majority; appeal to loyalty.)
To arouse pity for getting one's conclusion accepted (argumentum ad misericordiam)

en.wikipedia.org...

And here's a fascinating read for you, it especially applies to faith-based matters, or that which occurred in the supernatural realm.

Look Both Ways Two Atheistic Logical Fallacies

What atheists have done is to remove the supernatural from the realm of possibility. Granted, they are, after all, atheists-absolutely committed to materialism. But note the nature of their worldview: they have closed the door to any evidence to the contrary. They do this by appealing to atheism's circular logic. Since there is no supernatural there can be no evidence for the supernatural and since there is no evidence for the supernatural we do not believe in the supernatural. Yet, peradventure any evidence of the supernatural is uncovered it is to be ignored because it does not fit the materialistic worldview and because that worldview promises that all things will, some day, be explained in accordance to materialism.

Some scientists, such as Scott C. Todd from Kansas State University's Department of Biology, have taken their belief in materialism to such an extreme that they openly proclaim that they will purposefully deny any evidence that interferes with their beliefs, "Even if all the data pointed to an intelligent designer, such a hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic."

www.truefreethinker.com...

If you hear something or see something in a dream, for example, that event actually did exist in your mind. there's no (normal) way to prove it existed, and no second person to back it up, but that does not invalidate the truth or fact that it occurred to you. If you were the only person to have ever seen a pink unicorn, told a million people, no one believed you, that does not invalidate the existance of the unicorn (assuming for arguements sake it existed). Admittedly the burden of proof is on the person with the rare sighting to prove it.

Don't get too sucked into the "pics or it didn't happen" as that is only popular convention.

The truth is, faith-based events happen to all sorts of people, every single day. I know many amazing things have happened in my life which include telepathic conversations with other beings, waking visions in my mind which were not my own imagination at work, and were too stunningly interactive and observable to be considered delusion. I, after having had a measure of such experiences, have plenty of trust that other people have had similar experiences themselves.

reply to post by br0ker

Dear br0ker,

You're a bigger believer than I am. I just took a few minutes search for some examples, and you're implying that you believe aliens talked to three children, told them that they would be at a certain place at a certain day and time, and they were! Then the alien ship made themselves as obvious as they could (yet still some people couldn't see them), and they had nothing to say! They talked to three little kids, told them to gather a crowd(30,000-100,000 people), then the aliens didn't say anything, take anything, leave anything, but their "hull" was burning hot. What UFO sighting since has been anything like that?

Then you believe that a comatose woman hears some words mentioned at a shrine and snaps out of a coma? Her fever and peritonitis is instantly cured? These cures, you know, go through three separate medical panels winnowing them down to the truly inexplicable. Then from those remaining, the Church chooses the ones that are to be considered miraculous.

Next you have to believe the placebo effect can cause any bodily ill. Multiple Sclerosis? Amputated leg? What else do you have to believe to come up with alternative explanations?

All I have to do is believe in God. You've certainly made it hard for yourself.

It seems much has been lost. If God wanted us to follow a man made religion why give us free will? Why must we cling to ancient documents to know how to behave? If there was ONE true path one must follow to be one with God it would've been ingrained in our DNA and be as simple to us as a spider's web is for a spider to make. God's word would be absolute...uncorruptable and undenyable. Scriptures were written by man for man. Most claim to be divinely influenced, but what's stopping anyone from making such claims?

Tell me if I am wrong, but isn't God part of you and me? Aren't all of our souls divine? Why wouldn't God make it as simple as possible to unite with him/her/the universe etc? Is it in fact, hard to do? Or has man made it seem that way? We throw around religions like we throw around political party affiliations and all it seem to do is take us away from religion is supposed to be about....love. Maybe the current state of mans ego prevents us from actually practicing what we preach.

99% of us are hypocrits; me included, but I am trying....

A half decent philosopher could come up with the ten commandments and to be honest, a philosopher would probably come up with a more decent set.


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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
A half decent philosopher could come up with the ten commandments and to be honest, a philosopher would probably come up with a more decent set.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Well, you`re missing the fluff around the commandments, aka. the bible. That`s whats keeping the commandments together. If you didn`t have the real fear of hell then the 10 commandments wouldn`t do that much good.

I am no longer intolerant of religion. If if makes you a better person, good on you, good on everyone.

I do see flaws in the Christian religion as a story. We have the old testament, then that got a rewrite into the new testament, not to mention the King James rewrite, and finally I go... huh? How is this different than the Mormons? Or the Scientologist? Or any other group of people convinced theirs in the only way to something better.

It's all a system of control that works out for those who are at the top of it. Like it or not.

It's obvious from the outside. I understand the desire for a better future. I don't have any imaginary saviors. It would be easier if I did.

what gets me about the whole Bible thing is that those who believe don't seem to have a problem with there being more than 1 version.

I mean..if we took our Bill of Rights, lived and abided by it like a religion and then a president, say Bush came and had them rewritten because he didn't like how some of the things were interpreted, we would then wind up with the Bill of Rights - George Bush edition. Would this seem ok?