How much should America help Russia

Russia is asking for an emergency meeting of the UN Security council. How far should the United States go, in offering help to Russia? Should the United States commit troops to Chechnya, if the UN is brought in?

As an American I would feel that one "superpower" helping out a defeated "superpower" would make sense. Think about this realistically, we hated Russia for years, why? Communism........mm NO, probably the fact that at one point they were just as strong as us in the Nuclear Arms race. Now take where they are now, if we were to help them this could make for a great friendship and realistically make us a stronger nation to deal with if they were on our side. Remeber communism is no longer, financially they are shot but realistically they still have massive amounts of weaponry and with a little help could possibly grow to be a superpower once again but this time they would be with us, not against us.

Make any sense???

They are a differnt goverment now, I think it does make sense. I hope they get those kids out of there. But I have a bad feeling about this. I'm in for helping in any way that they request.

This will be a classic "Damned if you do damned if you don't" situation. People will complaign and whine that once again we are spreading our military too thin of we send troops over there. Or people will say we are selfish bastards who won't send help where help is needed.

How about "as much as our Russian friends need?"

They are fighting their own war against ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS just as we are. In fact, if you look around the globe, the vast preponderence of wars and conflicts seem to find their roots in ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS. I like saying ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS because I have just posted in another forum, Reuters and the other news sources have a real issue with saying ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS. Instead they like words like ; fighters, rebels, separatists and the like.

I like calling a thing what it is. The people holding and killing those children are ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS. Perhaps we could keep our eye on the ball a little better if we simply label it correctly. Our enemies are ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS.

Here is the Reuters piece edited as it should read (edits).


Russian School Attackers (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) Threaten to Kill Children
Sep 1, 9:12 AM (ET)

By Jonathan Thatcher
MOSCOW (Reuters) - A heavily armed gang(of ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) seized at least 120 hostages at a Russian school near Chechnya on Wednesday and threatened to kill 50 children for every one of their group (OF ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) who was killed, a senior local official said.

The attack bore the signs of a Chechen rebel (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORIST) operation. The gang of up to 17 men and women stormed into the secondary school in Beslan in North Ossetia province during a ceremony to mark the first day of the new school year.

"They have said that for every fighter (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORIST) wiped out they will kill 50 children and for every fighter (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORIST) wounded -- 20," regional Interior Minister Kazbek Dzantiyev told reporters in Beslan.

The gang (OF ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS), some strapped with explosives and reported to have mined the school grounds, later set free 15 of the children, Itar-Tass news agency said.

There was confusion over the exact number of hostages with initial reports putting it at 400. Interfax news agency later quoted local police as saying it was between 120 and 150.

The attackers (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS)rebuffed a local Muslim leader's attempts to talk and have demanded a meeting with top regional officials to discuss demands for the release of fighters (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) seized in neighboring Ingushetia in June during a big rebel (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) raid there.

SPORADIC FIRE

Witnesses near the school said sporadic gunfire resounded throughout the day.

"Every gunshot I hear is like a shot into my heart," said one woman, Vera, tears pouring down her cheeks and whose child was among the hostages.

Hundreds of police, rescue officials, and interior ministry troops with AK-47 rifles surrounded the school. Armored vehicles were parked nearby.

President Vladimir Putin, who broke his holiday to return to Moscow to deal with the latest in a wave of violence linked to separatist rebels (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) in Chechnya, dispatched his interior minister and head of the FSB security service to the scene.

The former spy-chief rose to power in 2000 on the back of his tough approach on Chechnya and has always refused to negotiate with separatists (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS).

Previous hostage-taking involving Chechen rebels (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) have all ended with huge loss of life.

When Chechen rebels (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) seized 700 hostages at a Moscow theater in 2002, 129 hostages and 41 guerrillas were killed when Russian troops stormed the building using poisonous gas.

In 1995, Chechen rebels (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) took hundreds of hostages in a hospital in the southern Russian town of Budennovsk. More than 100 died during the assault and a botched Russian commando raid.

Underlining how much government nerves have been shaken by the latest barrage of attacks, Russia deployed extra troops to guard dozens of nuclear facilities.

"After the latest terrorist attacks security services decided to send more interior ministry troops to all nuclear sites across the country," a Russian Atomic Energy Agency spokesman said. He would not give any numbers of troops.

SHOCK, DISBELIEF

At least three civilians were killed and 11 injured in the initial phase of the attack, Tass quoted the local interior ministry as saying. Nearly 50 children had managed to escape.

"I was standing next to the (school) gates when I saw three people with guns running. At first, I thought it was a joke but then they started shooting in the air. Then I ran away," teen-ager Zaurbek Tsumartov told local television.

The wave of attacks has raised questions over Putin's hard-line strategy to bring Chechen rebels (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) to heel but in the past he has showed no signs of buckling to their pressure.

Last weekend, the man the Kremlin picked to lead its policies in Chechnya easily won the local presidential election.

But the mass hostage-taking marks a new challenge to Putin's Chechnya policies.

Tuesday, a female suicide bomber (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS)blew herself up in central Moscow in an attack that killed nine and injured 51.

On August 24 two passenger planes were blown up apparently by suicide bombers (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) in attacks that killed 90 people.

North Ossetia lies to the west of the seething Chechnya region where Russian forces have been fighting a war with separatist rebels (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) for a decade.

There was no immediate charge that Chechen rebels (ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS) were behind the attack, but the well-organized assault and the proximity to Chechnya suggested they were involved.

FIRE AWAY ATS'ers

I am concerned about spreading our troops too thin but at the same time I feel that we are a giving nation and that we should offer help when it is needed.
I think if Russia needs our help we should step in and help them in whatever capacity we can.

Dear friends,

thanks for being so forthcoming with propositions of help and all, but I don't think that would be wise or practical.

For one, the US is already tied in Iraq. The other thing, it's the Russian war, and they are capable or prosecuting it themselves if it's managed right. Tax the rich and get the money the military needs. I'm sick of hearing about multibillionairs in a country that is essentially poor.

Third, I hope nobody helps Putin. He's a new Brezhnev on steroids. The only good thing that can come out of this turmoil is that people wake up form their long nightmarish sleep and look for a true leader who workes for the people's good.


[edit on 1-9-2004 by Aelita]

Originally posted by Jemison
I am concerned about spreading our troops too thin but at the same time I feel that we are a giving nation and that we should offer help when it is needed.
I think if Russia needs our help we should step in and help them in whatever capacity we can.

Exactly my point above

I have to agree, we should provide lots of help. It would help create an air of friendship instead of an air of mistrust. We are both fighting common emery-terrorists and yes that emery is Muslim terrorists-big surprise.

This does not mean all Muslims are bad or terrorist, only those who teach it (terrorism), finance it and commit it.

What we need to do is get to the Muslim clerks that teach children from the youngest age to hate and kill all those who are not Muslim. When a child is raised in this invironment, they cannot help but hate, kill and murder innocent people.

Don't get me wrong; IMO, when you murder innocent people with malice and forethought, you are wrong-no matter what anyone told you.

Just in the same way the rest of the world should not hate all Muslims and as such murder them without concern-they need the same education.

Definitely we should help russia. But but but..... we also have to think abt fallback. may be tomorrow same muslim rebels might sneak in US & do the same thing. Just because we helped russians to get out of this mess, they might want to take revenge on us. Same as in afghanistan, we helped them to fight soviet & then left them alone. & we got osama. I hope nothing like this should happen.

Originally posted by netscape
Definitely we should help russia. But but but..... we also have to think abt fallback. may be tomorrow same muslim rebels might sneak in US & do the same thing. Just because we helped russians to get out of this mess, they might want to take revenge on us. Same as in afghanistan, we helped them to fight soviet & then left them alone. & we got osama. I hope nothing like this should happen.

Sometimes you've just got to do whats right. It would be right to help, regardless of the outcome.

USA shouldnt even think about helping Russia as they have well above their heads of work to do too(Iraq)

Russia I think didnt call this session for help but to just soften the blow after they attack the school and 20-30 people die.

If Russia were to ask for help, I believe we should give it to them. If we are determined to fight terrorism around the globe, then help must be given when asked for.

As far as being stretched to thin - this is nonsense. It's not like we'd need to send 100,000 troops over there - we'd be sending some D Boys and maybe some equipment.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
If Russia were to ask for help, I believe we should give it to them. If we are determined to fight terrorism around the globe, then help must be given when asked for.

As far as being stretched to thin - this is nonsense. It's not like we'd need to send 100,000 troops over there - we'd be sending some D Boys and maybe some equipment.

Terrorist war take alot of personal becasue this is a war of the phantoms. You need to have troops everywhere to be in poistion to attack the phantom when it does show up. And US is spread very thin. They can send anymore troops to another battle as they are looking for troops for their battle.

This is Russia internal problem US does not have any business in their affairs.

Now if some Islamic Americans turn radical and do the same it will become and internal conflict also and the international community has not business in US either.

For all you soldiers want to be why don't you go and sing for the service and ask to be send to help in Russia, come on go and do it, just don't talk about it.

It is so easy to plan wars and assist in conflicts when is not your life in the line.


[edit on 1-9-2004 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
This is Russia internal problem US does not have any business in their affairs.

Now if some Islamic Americans turn radical and do the same it will become and internal conflict also and the international community has not business in US either.

For all you soldiers want to be why don't you go and sing for the service and ask to be send to help in Russia, come on go and do it, just don't talk about it.

It is so easy to plan wars and assist in conflicts when is not your life in the line.


[edit on 1-9-2004 by marg6043]

True indeed. People dont understand how it feels when you think you are going to die in a minute. The feeling is sick I must say. And you have no control over it. That is the worst part for the soldier.

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by American Mad Man
If Russia were to ask for help, I believe we should give it to them. If we are determined to fight terrorism around the globe, then help must be given when asked for.

As far as being stretched to thin - this is nonsense. It's not like we'd need to send 100,000 troops over there - we'd be sending some D Boys and maybe some equipment.

Terrorist war take alot of personal becasue this is a war of the phantoms. You need to have troops everywhere to be in poistion to attack the phantom when it does show up. And US is spread very thin. They can send anymore troops to another battle as they are looking for troops for their battle.

I'm not saying we (the US) need to send thousands of troops all over Russia, I am saying in this specific case, dealing with these 17 or so terrorists, if Russia were to ask the US for assistance (be it SF units or otherwise) we should help them out.

Do you think if Russia were to ask for our help we should reject their request? If so, then why?

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by American Mad Man
If Russia were to ask for help, I believe we should give it to them. If we are determined to fight terrorism around the globe, then help must be given when asked for.

As far as being stretched to thin - this is nonsense. It's not like we'd need to send 100,000 troops over there - we'd be sending some D Boys and maybe some equipment.

Terrorist war take alot of personal becasue this is a war of the phantoms. You need to have troops everywhere to be in poistion to attack the phantom when it does show up. And US is spread very thin. They can send anymore troops to another battle as they are looking for troops for their battle.

I'm not saying we (the US) need to send thousands of troops all over Russia, I am saying in this specific case, dealing with these 17 or so terrorists, if Russia were to ask the US for assistance (be it SF units or otherwise) we should help them out.

Do you think if Russia were to ask for our help we should reject their request? If so, then why?

The problem is that both Russia and USA will not ask each other for help. They count themselfs superior and superior people help but dont ask for help.

Yea we should remain friends with them if China pulls a Hitler on US.

I think most of the world is going to have to team up before we wipe out all terrorist across the globe. Could it be done alone all of us fighting our own wars sure it can. But I think teaming up would make it end alot faster. Russia and the US teaming up would be a great start. If not using troops intel should be shared.

More and more countries are going to get a taste of terror in the future and they will have to fight back also and the terrorist will keep making enemies until they have the whole world wanting to kill them.