Occupy "The Hood" Not A Joke

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by NoNameBrand
reply to post by CREAM

 

So your saying that if I own a business I should be made to hire someone that may not have beaten/raped/killed someone but still is a criminal?? Im sorry but I like to know who works for me.

This is one reason capitalism, private ownership of the means if production, is wrong imo.

It gives people the right to deny someone else a way of providing for themselves. ALL Human Beings deserve the right to provide for themselves imo. Someone who has been to jail, and already paid the price for their crimes, should not continue being punished.

This is why the people need to own and control the means of production, we should have control over our own labour. That way the 'private owner' can not dictate who eats, or not.

edit on 10/31/2011 by ANOK because: typo

Im a private owner and no way will I hire any one with a criminal record at all that is my choice not any one else's. As for dictating who eats well that is kind of a stretch don't you think. They have a choice work or dont work if they cant find a job the government will give them all they need that I help pay for in fact. So how again am I dictating who eats oh yeah by not bowing to their whims. Your either a moocher or a producer though the government forces me to support moochers that dosn't mean that I will bow.

Originally posted by ga-`tv-gi
Im a private owner and no way will I hire any one with a criminal record at all that is my choice not any one else's.

And as I explained that is what is wrong with capitalism.

As for dictating who eats well that is kind of a stretch don't you think. They have a choice work or dont work if they cant find a job the government will give them all they need that I help pay for in fact.

How do they have a choice to work or not, if you won't hire them? If they have to rely on government you are creating a tax burden on the people.

So how again am I dictating who eats oh yeah by not bowing to their whims. Your either a moocher or a producer though the government forces me to support moochers that dosn't mean that I will bow.

Because you refuse to hire them. It's nothing to do with whims. You, the private owner, control the means to produce, you control the means to access needed resources. If you refuse to hire someone you are taking away their ability to provide for themselves.

You are the problem, not the 'criminal'. You are the one controlling labour. You are the one controlling the means to produce, and who you think has the right to produce. You are punishing people for what they have already paid for.

This is why we should all own the means of production cooperatively, so you can not decide who eats, or not.

Sure they pay all those other taxes but since they do not pay income tax they are screaming bloody murder raise the taxes of everyone but them and they are screaming raise the income taxes of those evil rich.

Since the problem with government is they are spending more than they are taking in and social engineering programs are a large part of that they are asking other people to sacrifice but themselves.

Yes let's tax those people who do not even use social services sure why the hell not tax them every cent and you still would not be able to pay for those promises made.

Whatever.

Originally posted by ANOK


You are the problem, not the 'criminal'. You are the one controlling labour. You are the one controlling the means to produce, and who you think has the right to produce. You are punishing people for what they have already paid for.

Just playing devils advocate.........

Ex Felon-Child Molester wants a Job at your local Video Arcade. Should he still be hired ?

Originally posted by sonnny1
Just playing devils advocate.........

Ex Felon-Child Molester wants a Job at your local Video Arcade. Should he still be hired ?

That person has a right to provide for themselves. Working at a video arcade might not be appropriate, but the poster I replied to didn't specify any specific crime, he won't hire any criminals.

What do you propose we do, create another tax burden? Isn't that what you're always complaining about, people sucking off the tax payer?

We could have a system where people do not have to compete for 'jobs' in order to provide for themselves. Your 'private ownership' would not be the force that dictates who eats, or not.

'Private ownership' is the root of our economic problems. Success in that type of system is always at the loss of someone else.

Originally posted by CREAM

Originally posted by Fitch303
Hmmm so odd that these people want to bite the hand that feeds them. the bottom 47% pay no income taxes while they take up just about all the resources in terms of gov assistance.

They are protesting a bill which allows employers to discriminate against people who have felonies even if their crime was non-violent and is not related to the job. I have been charge but not yet convicted with a non-violent felony so I support these people.

They are also protesting racial profiling, and have some damn good arguments.

DENY IGNORANCE.

People need to stop judging each other......

...and see that we are all the same on a human level, we have just have all experienced different things which is how our behaviors and attitudes have been shaped.

Employers need to hire people they can trust, convicted felons have proven they cannot be trusted to an extent and employers should have every right not to hire them. Following the law is probably the easiest thing you can do in life, I dont even try to follow the law and I still do. If Blacks want to get treated different then they should act different. Which means drop the ghetto mentality, pull up your pants, stop committing crimes that are disproportionate to your racial makeup in society. "Deny ignorance"? look up crime stats

reply to post by ANOK


HUMANS are greedy. Period. You will never change that fact. You can change a system ,but you cant change human nature.

Originally posted by ga-`tv-gi

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by NoNameBrand
reply to post by CREAM

 

So your saying that if I own a business I should be made to hire someone that may not have beaten/raped/killed someone but still is a criminal?? Im sorry but I like to know who works for me.

This is one reason capitalism, private ownership of the means if production, is wrong imo.

It gives people the right to deny someone else a way of providing for themselves. ALL Human Beings deserve the right to provide for themselves imo. Someone who has been to jail, and already paid the price for their crimes, should not continue being punished.

This is why the people need to own and control the means of production, we should have control over our own labour. That way the 'private owner' can not dictate who eats, or not.

edit on 10/31/2011 by ANOK because: typo

Im a private owner and no way will I hire any one with a criminal record at all that is my choice not any one else's. As for dictating who eats well that is kind of a stretch don't you think. They have a choice work or dont work if they cant find a job the government will give them all they need that I help pay for in fact. So how again am I dictating who eats oh yeah by not bowing to their whims. Your either a moocher or a producer though the government forces me to support moochers that dosn't mean that I will bow.

Financially I am well off and so are my parents(my parents are in the 1% and they do a lot of good with their money and help the rest of the family out), I'm 19 and self employed with online businesses. I am not struggling, but I have friends and family who are and it's NOT because they deserve it or are lazy. I have also been to, and made friends in, multiple 3rd world countries, places that have been exploited and extorted by OUR system. People who work in sweat shops don't do it because they want to, our unchanging system which EACH individual participates in does. It's time to take self accountability for the problems we face. Not everyone can win in the race of capitalism when the system is rigged, especially once you get behind. Many people who are successful need to not be so self-righteous and realize that where they are today is because of the people who are around them. We all influence each others thoughts by sharing own own, we would be nothing if it wasn't for the help of our brothers and sisters, so we should treat each other as such because everyone has played in a part in the world that has shaped us. We often learn from others' mistakes, so we should not judge them because maybe you could have made the same mistakes if you hadn't already learned there is a better way to handle things. Life can be difficult and confusing, we need to not take ourselves so seriously, deflate our greedy egos, and come together in solidarity for the greater good, however it manifests itself. We are in control. People wonder how German's brainwashed by their government could stay by and do nothing during the holocaust, look at the world now, there is something wrong and most are doing are saying nothing. Many like yourself are even justifying the status quo. The world doesn't have to work this way, it only does the INDIVIDUALS think it does. The collective culture is evolving into a more intelligent and compassionate world.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by ANOK

 

HUMANS are greedy. Period. You will never change that fact. You can change a system ,but you cant change human nature.

I know many people in my life who are not greedy, my grandparents are frickin saints, my friends in Mozambique were extreme poor but very generous, many of my friends are the same way. I'm sure you have people like that in your life. Do these people not operate under human nature or what?

Those people prove your idea to simply be an idea, it just happens to be a prevalent one so that is way things work.

For now that is.
Society does, and can evolve. With the population so high and progress radically so fast, society and culture should be changing radically as well to adept, we are just lagging right now. The old systems may be based of respectable ideals, but the system itself is out dated. Time for actual change, and it starts with our ideas.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by ga-`tv-gi
Im a private owner and no way will I hire any one with a criminal record at all that is my choice not any one else's.

And as I explained that is what is wrong with capitalism.

As for dictating who eats well that is kind of a stretch don't you think. They have a choice work or dont work if they cant find a job the government will give them all they need that I help pay for in fact.

How do they have a choice to work or not, if you won't hire them? If they have to rely on government you are creating a tax burden on the people.

So how again am I dictating who eats oh yeah by not bowing to their whims. Your either a moocher or a producer though the government forces me to support moochers that dosn't mean that I will bow.

Because you refuse to hire them. It's nothing to do with whims. You, the private owner, control the means to produce, you control the means to access needed resources. If you refuse to hire someone you are taking away their ability to provide for themselves.

You are the problem, not the 'criminal'. You are the one controlling labour. You are the one controlling the means to produce, and who you think has the right to produce. You are punishing people for what they have already paid for.

This is why we should all own the means of production cooperatively, so you can not decide who eats, or not.

edit on 10/31/2011 by ANOK because: typo

Are you kidding????? I continue to not believe what I am reading. What has happened to America?????

If I own a business, WHY should I have to hire anyone I don't want to hire????? Seriously???? If I have the chance to choose between someone who has committed a crime and someone who has not...DUH! I'm going to choose the non-criminal. What if your DAUGHTER or your MOTHER ran a business? What if she were looking for 1 employee to work with her late at night at her place of work? Would you want her to hire someone with a FELONY, or someone with no criminal record?

Feel free to start your own business. No one is taking away your right to produce. Stop whining, and PRODUCE, already.

reply to post by CREAM


People have been mulling ideas for ages. Unfortunately, Ideas are just that. In a Utopia,you might have perfection,but until the human mind becomes perfect,you will have the idiosyncrasy's we all have. Attaining justice for example. Not everyone version of justice is the same. Even the whole notion of 99%. Theres still 1%. There will always be greed.The world does need change,but at what price,and who pays ? Whos Ideas? The Majority? Again,a portion will feel vilified. A portion left out,to lurk and wait for their time of change. OWS was enlightening,but I expected Ideas. I expected change. What I took from it was far from it.A lot of Rhetoric,mixed in with truth. Thats all they gave me.

As a business owner, I am honestly tired of being told who i can and cannot hire. I don't give a S#!!!* about ethnicity, creed, or any of that. My point from the beggining is that I WANT THE CHOICE! If I no longer have a choice over the people I hire, I may as well hand over control of my company to someone else as it will no longer be my company.

reply to post by kn0wh0w


Yes it has got to do with the occupy movement who are you to judge... Try not to be egocentric really it is not OWS.. The movement is far bigger and started with the Arab spring...
Please look at the map bellow and tell me which occupations are valid and which are not..

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by ANOK

 

HUMANS are greedy. Period. You will never change that fact. You can change a system ,but you cant change human nature.

Are they.. We live in an ultra egotisical society. Things have not always been this way. To be greedy you my first have an ego. How long do you think man kind has had an ego for. What defines our ego. What would your life be like without one.
There are still tribals whos identity of self is there collective tribe. Read up on the African bushmen. When they killed they would share it with whomever was around them..

Things dont have to be this way.. It is conditioning..

Originally posted by NoNameBrand
reply to post by CREAM

 

So your saying that if I own a business I should be made to hire someone that may not have beaten/raped/killed someone but still is a criminal?? Im sorry but I like to know who works for me.

Why should a business have the right to know about people. It is the remit of the business that the person can peform the job. Would you like business to have access to your personal information. Why should it stop there. How about giving them access to your sexual preferences. You can tell a lot about people from that or how you behave in a domestic environment. Why dont you give them cameras to put up in peoples homes so that they can really get to know people...
There are lines that should not be crossed and a individual should have more rights than a company not the other way round.. That is well messed up.

I was unfortunate enough to read through this thread so far, and I have to say that some people will not be happy unless all others are told to shut up and sit down!

These people have a legitimate concern and a right to be heard. So why are most of you making petty remarks and jabs in the gut?

reply to post by Fitch303

Hmmm so odd that these people want to bite the hand that feeds them. the bottom 47% pay no income taxes while they take up just about all the resources in terms of gov assistance.

This statement is filled with problems. You may want to consider how you word things......this statement could be taken many different ways.

reply to post by Blaine91555

Once SEIU and the Obama backers got involved they intend on taking it over. They will do that with in pocket radicals and use the illiterate and desperate as pawns.

That's quite a conspiracy you have there. Got any reason to believe such a theory? Got any proof from Accorn or Obama HQ to back that up?

Illiterate's huh?

The things people say sometimes really amuses me. It's come to the point where banter like this is actually taken seriously, instead of being blown off as the rantings.....of an illiterate.

Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by NoNameBrand
reply to post by CREAM

 

So your saying that if I own a business I should be made to hire someone that may not have beaten/raped/killed someone but still is a criminal?? Im sorry but I like to know who works for me.

Why should a business have the right to know about people. It is the remit of the business that the person can peform the job. Would you like business to have access to your personal information. Why should it stop there. How about giving them access to your sexual preferences. You can tell a lot about people from that or how you behave in a domestic environment. Why dont you give them cameras to put up in peoples homes so that they can really get to know people...
There are lines that should not be crossed and a individual should have more rights than a company not the other way round.. That is well messed up.

I agreed with this till I hit a certain point. I dont like the all these corporations spying on us through the internet and selling our info to ad agencies but your comment about the cameras is way to far of a stretch...there is no line of reasoning between businesses knowing your criminal history and them watching you with a camera.

Its also completely reasonable for employers to inquire about criminal history given the repeat offender rate in this country. And we can argue about the societal aspects of why that happens all day but you can tell me everyone who commits a crime the day after they are released from prison is frustrated with lack of job prospects . And why should we take the freedom from one group of people so that others get another chance. Why should I as a business owner be forced to hire someone even though they have committed a felony...i can be a little more understanding with misdemeanors but just because it was a non-violent felony doesnt suddenly make it ok. The same can be said for forcing companies to meet quota's for women, blacks, mexicans, etc. Its all pure BS.

As for Milwaukee I have lived in the poor parts of Milwaukee and let me tell you the people there in general dont paint a sympathetic picture. I have tons of negative experiences with the so called poor there (who were dressed nicer than I was) but Ill spare the details.. This protest represents the same sort of tired rhetoric I hear there everyday

reply to post by CREAM


Well said, I want everyone to have what they want a good stable life that's why I provide for my employees the best pay and benefits that I can get or give them. I have all ways said a happy worker is a productive worker and then in turn when they produce more they get more in bonus's or more vac. days dinners and what ever I can do to make their life better for them and theirs. See I dont come from money everything Iv got I earned by my sweat no one gave me anything. I started my co. with just me and a truck (that I bought used for $2500) when I got enough contracts I hired 1 guy then 2 then 5 and on and on to where Im at today. But if I hire a felon or just some one with a record at all I open myself up for problems. When or if I have a problem then my company has one and if I loose my contracts then all 32 of my employees are with out work and thats a big problem. Im sure they are some that were just in the wrong place at the wrong time but all I can do is ask around and see if someone else I know needs help. Im not a big fan of the government or some group telling me who I can hire or who I have to hire.

You are punishing people for what they have already paid for.

reply to post by ANOK


Paid for what?

sorry I read that the wrong way

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Fitch303

 

They pay plenty of other taxes, however. And do you know WHY they don't pay income taxes?

Because they're #ing poor.

Try it out sometime, it's not exactly liberating.

And hell, the tax still gets taken out of their paychecks, even if they DO get it back - of course your week-to-week paycheck has a bigger impact on your finances than a thousand bucks coming back in April...

edit on 31/10/2011 by TheWalkingFox because: (no reason given)

I have been there, done that. And it is liberating. You realise that if your going to make something of yourself, it's you that has to do it, not the government and not taking the lazy way out and blame someone else. When I was starting out I had a good job, lost it and was far away from home and out of work for over a year and down to less then fifty bucks in my savings. And not once in that time did I ask for a government handout, not once do I go "boohoo, those evil rich people need to pay more taxes". No I got off my butt took every dirty job I could find and worked my way back up. I'm not rich, far from it, but I'm comfortable. And I did it all without crying and pouting about those eeeeeevil rich people.