OWS and the Baby Kitten Defense

reply to post by buddha


I've got your answer right here when it concerns OWS and Liberals.

Crap! Can't get the link to work!

The vid was "I want it all" by Queen.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

I wish conservatives, tea party members, and GOP members would realize that and join in the OWS protests. Be the other half. Stand beside the OWS protestors and protest the government side of this team of corruption. That is what I have been doing. I am one person and I have one entire OWS protest awake to the fact that it is the government and Wall St. together that have made the problems.

The Tea Party and conservatives are now guilty of the same thing. They have bought every negative thing the news has said about OWS even though a few months ago they were experiencing it for themselves. If anyone should know better it should be the Tea Party. They should have been the first conservatives to join OWS and make sure everyone is equally represented in this, in actuality, non partisan movement. As I said earlier, the protest here has already gotten rid of one guy trying to hijack the movement for Obama (no exaggeration, I was there, I saw him), and we are a small town, imagine how many people are doing that at the big protests! When the T.P. were being called racists and etc on the news they hated it, but when they are shown a homeless guy squatting on a cop car, or hippies and socialists by the same media that criticized them they buy it! It's blowing my mind. We need you guys out there. The protest in my town can't be the only one that has the right idea, we can't be alone in being non/anti- partisan.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Of course it goes both ways though but you won't hear that from either side (save for a few).

And who knows? Maybe if enough right-wingers joined the movement, the democrats and the other groups attempting to co-opt the movement might back off.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yeah.. but you are spreading hate for the OWS movement before knowing 100 percent that you can't identify with them. The only info you have to go on is what the news has handed you. I thought you might be opening your mind which is why I explained what it is really about and suggested you really go down to one of the protests.
I am a libertarian. I am a Ron Paul supporter. I however also support OWS. I've helped organize the one started in my town. I have spoken to the local media on their behalf. I am educating people on what the real goal is and I put in at least 10 to 15 hours a week on the street holding a sign and educating. I would be there more, but I work full time and have a girlfriend, work at home, etc.

You should find out for yourself before hating with the rest of them.

I'll issue a caveat then. Your group may be on the right track.

Being in Germany, I can't step out and interview the OWS in my area. There isn't any.

And if what your saying is true, then the OWS movement is in trouble. If one Obama propoent tried in your group, then imagine how many are in New York, Oakland, elewhere.

YOU may be the fluffy baby kitten in this mess.

Occupy the Tea Party.

Since OWS now has been copywritten by the movement in New York.

reply to post by beezzer


Remember when I said aside from the craziness and confusion in NY the rest of the U.S. occupy protests would fall in line and go after the real problems, and even though the one I attended was smaller, it was more representative of what OWS stands for that the one in NY? Well I think I may have called it correctly.
This is what they are starting to focus on in Denver:

The Saturday afternoon protest crowd was much smaller than the would-be revolutionaries had hoped. However, the comically unfocused messages from the New York campers seem to be finding some filters. While there were the expected few signs with vulgarities aimed at government and bankers and corporations, the major focus of this day’s protestors was concern about growing corruption in the federal government.

www.greeleygazette.com...

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by beezzer

 

Remember when I said aside from the craziness and confusion in NY the rest of the U.S. occupy protests would fall in line and go after the real problems, and even though the one I attended was smaller, it was more representative of what OWS stands for that the one in NY? Well I think I may have called it correctly.
This is what they are starting to focus on in Denver:

The Saturday afternoon protest crowd was much smaller than the would-be revolutionaries had hoped. However, the comically unfocused messages from the New York campers seem to be finding some filters. While there were the expected few signs with vulgarities aimed at government and bankers and corporations, the major focus of this day’s protestors was concern about growing corruption in the federal government.

www.greeleygazette.com...

Ha! My eldest son is in Greeley this week.

Wonder why. . . . . . .

Originally posted by beezzer


OWS? What are your goals? Get rid of the 1%? Replace them with what? Get rid of the free market system? Replace it with what? Get rid of the financial system? Replace it with what?

I eagarly await your replies.

Not a part of OWS but They have it all planned out, are organized, have demands and goals... So it appears, anyway. For what that is worth.

sites.google.com...

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I glanced at it. Will have to come back to it.
But it reads much like I thought.
Some points I agree with, others absolutely NOT!

Will provide a more comprehensive repy later.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mastahunta

 

No lies.
But your response does indicate that I may be correct.

Keep pointing out the cute baby kittens. Tell everyone how we hate baby kittens.

Just because you have engineered the POSSIBILITY of a correlation
does not mean there is a corollary. You can turn anything you want into
baby kittens and then declare that you are victorious based on the
equation you created yourself. So anytime I try to explain or describe
the perspective that is common place with OWSers, you can claim
that I am baby kittening, endlessly...

The twenty issues of the OWS crowd.
Link

Lets take a look and see what are cute baby kittens and what aren't.

1. Elimination of the Corporate State. Implementing an immediate ban on all private contributions of money and gifts, to all politicians in federal office, from individuals, corporations, "political action committees," "super political action committees," lobbyists, unions and all other private sources of money or thing of value to be replaced by the fair, equal and total public financing of all federal political campaigns. We categorically REJECT the concepts that corporations are persons or that money is equal to free speech because if that were so, then only the wealthiest people and corporations would have a voice. The complete elimination of private contributions must be enacted by law or Constitutional amendment because it has become clear that politicians in the United States cannot regulate themselves and have become the exclusive representatives of corporations, unions and the very wealthy who indirectly and directly spend vast sums of money on political campaigns to influence the candidates’ decisions when they attain office and ensure their reelection year after year. Our elected representatives spend far too much of their time fundraising for the next election rather than doing the People's business. The current system's propagation of legalized bribery and perpetual conflicts of interests has reduced our once great republican democracy to a greed driven corporatocracy run by boardroom oligarchs who represent .05 to 1% of the population but own 38% of the wealth and whose incomes have increased 275% since 1979.

I don't have a problem with this.
Okay, so far.

2. Rejection of the Citizens United Case. The immediate abrogation, even if it requires a Constitutional Amendment, of the outrageous and anti-democratic holding in the "Citizens United" case proclaimed by the United States Supreme Court. This heinous decision equates the payment of money by corporations, wealthy individuals and unions to politicians with the exercise of protected free speech. We, the People, demand that this institutional bribery and corruption never again be deemed protected free speech.

Ummm, okay, I think. When you mess with constitutional ammendments, I get nervous.

3. Elimination of Private Contributions to Politicians. Prohibiting all federal public employees, officers, officials or their immediate family members from ever being employed by any corporation, individual or business that they specifically regulated while in office; nor may any public employee, officer, official or their immediate family members own or hold any stock or shares in any corporation they regulated while in office until a full 5 years after their term is completed; a complete lifetime ban on the acceptance of all gifts, services, money or thing of value, directly or indirectly, by any elected or appointed federal official or their immediate family members, from any person, corporation, union or other entity that the public official was charged to specifically regulate while in office. In sum, elected politicians and public employees in regulatory roles may only collect their salary, generous healthcare benefits and pension. Any person, including corporate employees, found guilty and convicted of violating these rules in a court of law by proof beyond a reasonable doubt, shall be sentenced to a term of mandatory imprisonment of no less than one year and not more than ten years.

Okay with this. Harsh, but maybe what we need.

4. Term Limits. Members of the United States House of Representatives shall be limited to serving no more than four two-year terms in their lifetime. Members of the United States Senate shall be limited to serving no more than two six-year terms in their lifetime. The two-term limit for President shall remain unchanged. Serving as a member of Congress or as the President of the United States is one of the highest honors and privileges our culture can bestow. These positions of prominence in our society should be sought to serve one's country and not provide a lifetime career designed to increase personal wealth and accumulate power for the sake of vanity.

I'm really good with this.

Next page, please.

5. A Fair Tax Code. A complete reformation of the United States Tax Code to require ALL citizens to pay a fair share of a progressive, graduated income tax by eliminating loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies (e.g. oil, gas and farm) and ending all other methods of evading taxes. The current system of taxation favors the wealthiest Americans, many of whom pay fewer taxes to the United States Treasury than citizens who earn much less and pay a much higher percentage of income in taxes to the United States Treasury. We, like Warren Buffet, find this income tax disparity to be fundamentally unjust.

I'm more of a flat-tax type of guy. But a graduated (limited) may be possible so that the uber wealthy or uber poor aren't affected too differently.

6. Healthcare for All. Medicare for all or adoption of a single-payer healthcare system. The Medicaid program will be eliminated.

Nope. No way in hell. Could start another thread on this alone. Uh-uh. No way.

7. Protection of the Planet. New comprehensive regulations to give the Environmental Protection Agency expanded powers to shut down corporations, businesses or any entities that intentionally or recklessly damage the environment, and to criminally prosecute individuals who intentionally or recklessly damage the environment. We also demand the immediate adoption of the most recent international protocols, including the "Washington Declaration" to cap carbon emissions and implement new and existing programs to transition away from fossil fuels to reusable or carbon neutral sources of energy.

WTH? Did al Gore write this one? Can anyone say carbon tax?

8. Debt Reduction. Adoption of an immediate plan to reduce the national debt to a sustainable percentage of GDP by 2020. Reduction of the national debt to be achieved by BOTH fair taxation and cuts in spending to corporations engaged in perpetual war for profit, the "healthcare" industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the communications industry, the oil and gas industry, and all other sectors that use the federal budget as their income stream. We agree that spending cuts are necessary but those cuts must be made to facilitate what is best for the People of the United States of America, not multinational and domestic corporations who currently have a stranglehold on all politicians in Washington, D.C. in both parties.

Nope. Stop spending, end useless government programs, that'll reduce the debt.
Next!

9. Jobs for All Americans. Passage of a comprehensive job and job-training act like the American Jobs Act to employ our citizens in jobs that are available with specialized training and by putting People to work now by repairing America's crumbling infrastructure. We also recommend the establishment of an online international job exchange to match employers with skilled workers or employers willing to train workers in 21st century skills. In conjunction with a new jobs act, reinstitution of the Works Progress Administration and Civilian Conservation Corps or a similar emergency governmental agency tasked with creating new public works projects to provide jobs to the 46 million People living in poverty, the 9.1% unemployed and 10% underemployed.

Oh goody. Making government bigger. WTH? (again)
Nope, nope, nope.

10. Student Loan Forgiveness. Implementation of a student loan debt relief forgiveness program. Our young students are $1 trillion in debt from education loans alone with few employment prospects due to financial collapse directly caused by the unbridled and unregulated greed of Wall Street. Interest on these debts should be reduced and deferred for periods of unemployment and the principal on these loans reduced or forgiven by using a Wall Street corporate tax surcharge as reparations for their conduct leading to the economic collapse of 2007-2008 and current worldwide recession. The tax code must also be amended so that employers will receive a student loan repayment tax deduction for paying off the loans of their employees.

Nope again. You break it, you buy it.

11. Immigration Reform. Immediate passage of the Dream Act and comprehensive immigration and border security reform including offering visas, lawful permanent resident status and citizenship to the world’s brightest People to stay and work in our industries and schools after they obtain their education and training in the United States.

Gotta say no. What, did Obama sneak this in?

12. Ending of Perpetual War for Profit. Recalling all military personnel at all non-essential bases and refocusing national defense goals to address threats posed by the geopolitics of the 21st century, including terrorism and limiting the large scale deployment of military forces to instances where Congressional approval has been granted to counter the Military Industrial Complex's goal of perpetual war for profit. The annual estimated savings of one trillion dollars per year saved by updating our military posture will be applied to the social programs outlined herein to improve the quality of life for human beings rather than assisting corporations to make ever-increasing profits distributed to the top 1% of wealth owners.

Okay, I might be convinced on this issue. I'd like to see the end to war.

13. Reforming Public Education. Mandating new educational goals to train the American public to perform jobs in a 21st century economy, particularly in the areas of technology and green energy, taking into consideration the redundancy caused by technology and the inexpensive cost of labor in China, India and other countries. Eliminating tenure and paying our teachers a competitive salary commensurate with the salaries of employees in the private sector with similar skills because without highly-skilled teachers, there will never be a highly-skilled workforce.

Meh. Sounds like a pro-union stance rather than education stance. I say get rid of the Dept. of Ed all together. But, alas, for another thread.

14. End Outsourcing. Subject to the elimination of corporate tax loopholes and exploited exemptions and deductions stated above, offering tax incentives to businesses to remain in the United States and hire our citizens rather than outsource jobs. An "outsourcing tax" should be introduced to discourage businesses from sending jobs overseas. Providing tax breaks to companies that invest in reconstructing the manufacturing capacity of the United States so that we again make everyday products in the United States rather than importing them from countries like China and India.

Sounds draconian. Government should keep out of business. I mean, aren't we asking business to stay out of government?

15. End Currency Manipulation. Implementing immediate legislation and WTO intervention if need be, to encourage China and our other trading partners to end currency manipulation and reduce the trade deficit.

Again, we're wanting business to stay out of government, but you want to use government to manipulate business and other countries as well?

16. Banking and Securities Reform. Immediate reenactment of the Glass-Steagall Act and increased regulation of Wall Street and the financial industry by the SEC, FINRA and the other financial regulators. The immediate commencement of Justice Department criminal investigations into the Securities and Banking industry practices that led to the collapse of markets, $700 billion bail-out, and financial firm failures in 2007-2008. Introduction of a small financial transaction fee to collect a tax on each and every stock trade and all other forms of financial transactions. Uniform regulations limiting what banks may charge consumers for ATM fees, the use of debit cards and other miscellaneous "fees." Ending the $4 billion a year "hedge fund loophole" which permits certain individuals engaged in financial transactions to evade graduated income tax rates by treating their income as capital gains which are taxed at a much lower tax rate (approximately 15%).

Mmmmm, maybe. Gotta read more on that.

Next (hopefully) last page

17. Foreclosure Moratorium. Adoption of a plan similar to President Clinton’s proposal to end the mortgage crisis. The privately owned Federal Reserve Bank shall not continue to lower interest rates for loans to banks that are refusing to loan to small businesses and consumers, but instead shall buy all underwater or foreclosed mortgages. It will refinance these debts at an interest rate of 1% or less, because that is the interest rate it charges the banks that hoard the cash rather than loan it to the People and small businesses. These debts will be managed by the newly established Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (and foreclosure task force described below).

Gotta problem with this one too. Throw Frank and Dodd in jail and I might rethink.

18. Ending the Fed. The immediate formation of a non-partisan commission, overseen by Congress, to audit and investigate the economic risks and possibility of eliminating the privately-owned Federal Reserve Bank and transferring its functions to the United States Treasury Department. The immediate one-year freeze on all foreclosures shall be implemented by an independent foreclosure task force appointed and overseen by Congress and the Executive Branch (in conjunction with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau ) to determine, on a case-by-case basis, whether foreclosure proceedings should continue based on the circumstances of each homeowner and the propriety of the financial institution's conduct when originating the loan.

Just end the Fed, stop right there and I'll like this one.

19. Abolish the Electoral College, Comprehensive Campaign Finance and Election Reform . Subject to the above ban on all private money and gifts in politics, to enact additional campaign finance reform requiring new FCC regulations granting free air time to all candidates; total public campaign financing to all candidates who obtain sufficient petition signatures and/or votes to get on the ballot and participate in the primaries and/or electoral process; shortening the campaign season to three months; and allowing voting on weekends and holidays; issuance of free voter registration cards to all citizens who are eligible to vote so that they cannot be turned away at a polling station because they do not have a driver's license or other form of identification; and expanding the option of mail-in ballots to all elections, especially for elderly and disabled voters. Abolishing the Electoral College in favor of the Popular Vote in presidential elections.

Nope.

aaaand the last one. . .

20. Ending the War in Afghanistan. An immediate withdrawal of all combat troops from Afghanistan and a substantial increase in the amount of funding for veteran job training and placement. New programs dedicated to the treatment of the emotional and physical injuries sustained by veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan. Our veterans are committing suicide at an unprecedented rate and we must help now.

Okay. Though it seems like they have more interest in ecology and carbon credits than vets.

Well kids, that the low-down. Cute fluffy kittens mixed with big fugly gorillas.

Pick the ones you want, I just did.

reply to post by beezzer


You are dead on with all the points.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by beezzer

 

You are dead on with all the points.

Thanks. Finally got a look at their message. So, my/our instincts were dead-on.
Just my humble.

You notice their issues along with the cute baby kittens?

reply to post by beezzer


Sure do.
It is merely a Socialist Movement, cloaked in the Rights of the Citizen BS.

Oh, and by the way, look at the list of major supporters.
pjmedia.com...

I am not surprised.

Support is just that, support, backing, money, voice lending and/or solidarity.

And before anyone starts, spare me the BS of "Well, OWS can't stop them".
A public "Thanks but no thanks" to an individual group, country, organization or person would be sufficient.
But, that won't happen.

reply to post by macman
I'm more than willing to give the benefit of doubt to folks that openly deny the more socialist element or political element.

But this is their message.
Love it, hate it, this'll be what defines them, along with their supporters.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by macman

 

I'm more than willing to give the benefit of doubt to folks that openly deny the more socialist element or political element.

But this is their message.
Love it, hate it, this'll be what defines them, along with their supporters.

I agree as well.
It is hard to believe in a movement, whether it is for the right or wrong reasons, when the people involved show what they do.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Oh, I think Wall Street has a lot to answer for, as do the unions....and the politicians.

I know, I know - that is thinking way outside the box but unless all these issues are addressed, your never going to see any significant change.

I'm not putting halo's over Wall Street.

Just trying to be. . . . wait for it. . . . . .

Fair and balanced.

(oh that's going to irritate some folks)

I can see where you are coming from, and are attempting to get the Liberal minded folk to see both sides of the story....I have tried time and time again to do so, but I find pulling teeth easier.

I feel that aspects of the Tea Party and the OWS combined would go far in solving some of the problems we are facing today.

BIG EDIT:

except for the socialism parts of OWS, Not on my watch.

edit on 31-10-2011 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

Waitaminute!!!! Are you guys suggesting that there are people who are hypocrites because they accuse others of being unfair and imbalanced even as they are just as unfair and imbalanced!?! I think you are being unfair and imbalanced!

Next thing you know you'll be quoting one sentence at a time from their post out of context, with a smarmy yet inchoate reply to prove how smart you are even though you clearly have no idea what you're talking about!

BTW Beezer, you should do a thread with the OWS demands and your replies. I bet several uber-OWS nazis will jump all over it and continue to drive normal folks away from this anti-American movement. I don't even know if you are American, but if you aren't I wish you were.

Peace