Solar Storm Impact: Worst Case Scenario

This thread is to serve as a brain-storming session for all the possible impacts a full-force solar storm would have on our modern society.
With "full-force" I mean a solar storm that would not sterilize the earth, but it would short-circuit all the power grids and all satellites would malfunction permanently.
Please, try to stick to just identifying what would happen and not what you would personally do, okay?

My first thoughts:

Communtications would black out.
No cellphones, no traditional phones, no radio or TV and even if servers can be kept in EMP-protected environments, it is unlilkey that any computer would survive (they are wounrable in stand-by mode).

No transportation.
Cars, trains, subways would all go into a standstill. Maybe cars that are turned off would function?
Planes, however would start falling from the sky, posing a major threat in metropolitan areas.

Living conditions.
For those living in cold conditions it would be very bad news to be out of electricity, especially if you aren't used to it. I am thinking of people who live in large cities who are located far north.
Those living in warmer climates sure would suffer as well, but not as bad as those who dwell in the cold.

Basic needs.
If your water is provided from pumps and not from a water tower, prepare to get dry (though the water tower will get empty as well in time).
Since transportation is out, stores will run out of supplies fast. Cold/frozen food would spoil quickly, especially if you live in warm climate.

Security:
No phones, no way to call for help. Cops, firemen, ambulances; even if their cars/trucks would work, they would not have functioning radio communications to coordinate their work. Besides, I think most of the personell would stay at home.

reply to post by Raud


Well humanity survived not having anything like that for thousands of years.... We had no electricity, no modern medicine, and did was hard to store food.... Many people would die because of lack if ability to adjust. Religious people might think its hell or .limbo.....and the test of is would get over the bull sh*t and work together. Human nature is a surviving and will out aside differences to survive.

then it isn't a "full-force" solar storm. an actual full force solar storm that hit the Earth would destroy everything on the planet.

Since all media would be gone, people would not know what it was. Rumors would be rampant. Kids would see it as a play day, theifs as a work day (alarms being off), workers as an aggravating day. After a while, people would wonder how to get home. Schools and businessess would dismiss, but what would schools do with all those students? Especially elementary kids. After the first night with no TV, Xbox or PS, people would be angry, but fear would be rising. All the "what ifs" would start to manifest. Society would start to unglue. Police and fire rely on communication and transportation. People would begin to worry about getting food and water. One day without plumbing is a wretched experience. Some groups would band together for safety, others would try to get someplace they felt was better. Gangs would form. Since the main generators that power our grid would take almost a year to replace, it would be a long haul. People who require medication to live, would be gone soon. Those who can't care for themselves would die-off early. Poor sanitation would cause epidemics and plagues. After a month or two, starvation would set in. Cities would be horrible, dominated by gangs, Those who have had a little survival experience or are country people with "live off the land" skills would do better, but they would have to protect themselves from marauders. Our society is so dependent of technology and JIT business, most would be dead before the electricity came back on line.

reply to post by Jakied0110


Sorry but in this case it is totally different. The major problem before everything else: nuclear plants. What would happen if there is suddenly no more electricity? Meltdown? Because the cooling systems would be down. Im not sure if ALL the reactors could go into meltdown but even a few would be hellish. I guess there must be an emergency procedure to prevent a nuclear meltdown. If someone have any information about it he is welcome to post it.

reply to post by Raud


HAZMAT:
Nuclear poweplants, what would happen to them?
Storage facilities for toxic or nuclear waste, how would they react to a total loss of power?
Extended over a long period of time, satellites of all kinds of types and sizes will drop down from the sky in random places. Some of them carry nuclear reactors and will be very hazardous.
Facilities for disease control; what would happen to them?

Sanitation:
Water treatment facilities/sewage would not work I and sicerely doubt that the garbage men will stick to their routines. Urban areas will soon turn into stinking cesspools.

Healthcare:
You probably would not like to wear a pace-maker. A massive EMP will shut them off. People who have respiratory aids, are in a coma or children in neonatal treatment will not make it. All kinds of medical equipment won't operate and neither will suregons, at least not after dark.

Security:
Looting will commence within 48 hours. This will turn serious very fast. People will also try to get out of town soon which will add to the chaos.
If you are in prison, especially in a high-security facility, be prepared to be locked in until you starve to death.
Try not to be inside an elevator when the solar storm hits.
Depending on where you work, you might suffer differnet levels of danger. You would not like to work in a mine or any other place in mandatory need of electrically powered ventilation. Oil rigs would also be a very bad place to work when the global blackout hits home.

reply to post by _damon


Yeah, I saw you beat me to it.
Not only would meltdowns happen all over the globe. Maybe some of the modern, more sophisticated plants have procedures for this, but all the cold-war era plants (Russian, Eastern European and Chinese) would most likely go off. Having lived through the Chernobyl disaster I know that the impact of a meltdown can spread over vast distances in totally unpredictable directions.
Man, it's gonna kill us all!

Even worse, there would be no way of warning for or even monitoring the fallout. One would just have to wait and see.
Crappy nuclear power! Talk about building our own technological prison

reply to post by zachi


Thank you for the input. You seem to have pretty good mental preparedness for this kind of situation.
And may I say that's an adorable avatar you have there

Large or important agencies that have communications departments have EMP rooms with radios and other communication equipment. So there won't be a total communication blackout among the government.

would be another day out where am at.. not bothered if it happens and my mobile doesnt work any longer.
The people in nearby villages live as they always have with technology being nearly non-existant its more like the 16th century than the 21st..
But you lot with the reliance on modern tech are fooked if it happens... Would hate to be anyplace near a western country during any event or disaster..

we would be forced to snack on home made Jerky instead of delivery pizzas

the lifestyles of the native Americans is something to emulate, they way they lived & organized before the white europeans began the great genocide

reply to post by Raud

Greetings:

S & F on your fine effort and we look forward to further participation from others who will add their keen insight.

Since posting this a few days ago, I had a strange dream about total devestation with bewildered (?) police, swirling, dirty water - intermixed with somewhat lucid moments about satellites and solar flares and electromagnetic storms and the pole and crustal shift - stuff I've been working on...and yet, I awake refreshed with a positive outlook...no "dream hangover," and all the while noting that the level of stress on the planet is rising toward some form of crescendo...and TPTB know about it, and are constantly telling us about it...we were warned...and are not responding to the stimuli...

And the dream where it is all a kalidoscope of images - sometimes, sometimes crystal-clear, most just out of the corner of the eye out of focus - I feel it all somehow fits with the project I'm working on regarding the "Loss of Command and Control" (for any reason - start with fuel/food/energy "uprisings") as a reason for invoking the full force of the Patriot Act, enforced by FEMA/NSA/DHS - and the blackops boys we don't even know of, but see them through the mists of time, always hovering in the background, sometimes the cleaning crew, sometimes the mysterious MIB...meanwhile, Earth is clearly "out of balance" (pun intended) in real crisis, and getting worse.

And this ties in with our OP on the set-up for the coming food riots in the USA and what will be considered 'appropriate response.'

Which leads us back to sharing our post from February of this year, excerpted here:

...
Do you know that a solar flare can make your toilet stop working?

That's OK, because you are about to use the last few pieces of toilet paper that you have to dry your eyes when you realize that there will be no plumber coming to fix it.

It won't really matter, because the water that you have in the toilet tank is all that there is.

No more city water from the tap because the water department has experienced catastrophic across-the-board failures with all equipment fried and no telling when it comes back on line - if ever.
...
Here is where better understanding the nature of the electrodynamic coupling, how geospace responds to external and internal drivers, and how the coupled middle and upper atmosphere respond to external forcings and how they interact with each other just might give us a leg up on this and possibly mitigate serious power outages and communications disruptions.

This should have solved years ago.

Damage to power grids and other communications systems could be catastrophic, with effects leading to a potential loss of governmental command and control of the situation.

Peace Love Light
tfw

Liberty & Equality or Revolution

Originally posted by Raud
reply to post by _damon

 

Yeah, I saw you beat me to it.
Not only would meltdowns happen all over the globe. Maybe some of the modern, more sophisticated plants have procedures for this, but all the cold-war era plants (Russian, Eastern European and Chinese) would most likely go off.

Having lived through the Chernobyl disaster I know that the impact of a meltdown can spread over vast distances in totally unpredictable directions.

Man, it's gonna kill us all!

Even worse, there would be no way of warning for or even monitoring the fallout. One would just have to wait and see.
Crappy nuclear power! Talk about building our own technological prison

Greetings:

Having lived through the Chernobyl disaster ...

Would you be so kind as to join us here and please add your personal insight as to the Fukushima disaster/fiasco?

Thank you for your time, interest and participation.

Peace Love Light
tfw

Liberty & Equality or Revolution

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Large or important agencies that have communications departments have EMP rooms with radios and other communication equipment. So there won't be a total communication blackout among the government.

Yes, but would it reach the people outside who can't access the internet, listen to radio or watch TV? I think even for the governments it will be the greatest challenge ever.

Originally posted by Expat888
would be another day out where am at.. not bothered if it happens and my mobile doesnt work any longer.
The people in nearby villages live as they always have with technology being nearly non-existant its more like the 16th century than the 21st..
But you lot with the reliance on modern tech are fooked if it happens... Would hate to be anyplace near a western country during any event or disaster..

Well, at lest there wouldn't be any more acting all smirky on the internet, now would it?

Originally posted by Raud

Communtications would black out.
No cellphones, no traditional phones, no radio or TV and even if servers can be kept in EMP-protected environments, it is unlilkey that any computer would survive (they are wounrable in stand-by mode).

This is unlikely as niether CME's or solar flares produce EMP's. The only damage that can be done is from an increase of current in long conductors like power lines that causes an overload on the electricity grid. So if you want to be sure just unplug your devices from the wall to protect it from any surge, you don't need faraday cages. Even in a perfect storm scenario everyday appliances won't be fried.

Originally posted by Raud
No transportation.
Cars, trains, subways would all go into a standstill. Maybe cars that are turned off would function?
Planes, however would start falling from the sky, posing a major threat in metropolitan areas.

Cars will be fine, subways and trains may stop working if there local powergrid has been affected.
Planes will not fall from the sky, there is no reason that they would.

Originally posted by Raud
Living conditions.
For those living in cold conditions it would be very bad news to be out of electricity, especially if you aren't used to it. I am thinking of people who live in large cities who are located far north.
Those living in warmer climates sure would suffer as well, but not as bad as those who dwell in the cold.

For the most part people living in cold climates rely more on oil and gas to keep warm as electricity isn't the most effeciant and then there is the good old fashioned fire. Certainly wouldn't be something people couldn't cope with.

Originally posted by Raud
Basic needs.
If your water is provided from pumps and not from a water tower, prepare to get dry (though the water tower will get empty as well in time).
Since transportation is out, stores will run out of supplies fast. Cold/frozen food would spoil quickly, especially if you live in warm climate.

Water will still be around, most water networks rely on gravity and pressure and for worse case scenarios they would have backup gernerators. I don't recall the water even going dry or even being affected whenever there has been a balckout. Transportation is still in too.
Some food would spoil but only if power couldn't be switched on.

Originally posted by Raud
Security:
No phones, no way to call for help. Cops, firemen, ambulances; even if their cars/trucks would work, they would not have functioning radio communications to coordinate their work. Besides, I think most of the personell would stay at home.

Again, your a working on the assumtion that all these things will be destroyed, which they wont so it won't be as bad as you think.

reply to post by pazcat


Well, there you go; I stand correced

I would still imagine that things will go out of hand, in terms of civil unrest. At least to begin with.
The sattelite problem will remain however, and obsolete nuclear technology is also a threat to keep in the calculations.

One thing that would happen, that I love with power-outages: silence.
No humming, no buzzing, no nothing. Just pure relief...

Thank you Raud!
I think that those who say nothing would happen should investigate Starfish Prime:
In July 1962, a 1.44 megaton (6.0 PJ) United States nuclear test in space, 250 mi above the mid-Pacific Ocean, called the Starfish Prime test was conducted. The affects were much larger than had been previously calculated. It caused electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link.

A large device detonated at 400–500 km (250 to 312 miles) over Kansas would affect all of the continental U.S. The signal from such an event extends to the visual horizon as seen from the burst point.

September 1-2, 1859 solar flares and magnetic storms caused telegraph wires in both the United States and Europe to spontaneously short out, causing numerous fires, while the Northern Lights were documented as far south as Rome, Havana and Hawaii, with similar effects at the South Pole.

A 1994 solar storm caused major malfunctions to two communications satellites, disrupting newspaper, network television and nationwide radio service throughout Canada. Other storms have affected systems ranging from cell phone service and TV signals to GPS systems and electrical power grids. In March 1989, a solar storm much less intense than the perfect space storm of 1859 caused the Hydro-Quebec (Canada) power grid to go down for over nine hours, and the resulting damages and loss in revenue were estimated to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Imagine what three well places EMP bombs would do - one over the Eastern Grid, one over the Western grid and on to bring down the Texas grid. Sure the gov't has covered itself, but the civilian grid would be out for a year or more. Sending modern man - far removed from the skills of his ancestors - into survival mode would mean sure death for most of them.

The primary affect of a CME (as opposed to a human-instigated EMP) would be the disruption of satelite navigation and communication networks.

The secondary affect would be damage to power transmission. The Canadian network was profoundly damaged by a 1989 CME, and the complete repairs took over 5 years.

With the rise of computer networks, the gravest long-term threat is to SCADA systems.

1. Many of the networks are no longer actually monitored by humans; the computers would be receiving errant data from all over each network, and would automatically take countermeasures against events that weren't occurring on the ground. This will cause massive damage to pumping stations, as well as pipeline rupture, where incorrect pressure readings are compensated for.

2. Most of the networks have an ongoing program to minimize geo-electric corrosion. The errant readings will cause many networks to "electrify" their own networks, rapidly accelerating the corrosion in the whole system.

3. Many rail networks use similar scada systems, and will have their rolling stock immobilized for at least the duration of the geomagnetic storm, and for an indeterminate period afterward, as the network is repaired and reconfigured.

In the US and across Europe, critical pipeline networks will be taken off-line and may require massive repairs, at the same time that the communications grid is disrupted and electrical service is not available in rural areas, greatly magnifying the time and expense of repairs.



In the US, 80% of consumer goods are transported at some point by rail. 75% of petroleum is transported by pipeline. Even if networks could be repaired within a month or two (assuming that replacement parts are somehow magically delivered even though transportation and warehousing are in a state of chaos), Agricultural production would be at least halved for several years afterward.

And the impact would ripple through the world's economy. The USA exports 53% of the world's maize, and 40% of the world's soybeans, so food markets would be affected world-wide, even if the initial effects were only regional. Of course, Mexico and Canada are leading producers in their own rights; so it's safe to assume that their market production would be affected in a similar vein.

The vulnerability of SCADA networks, by itself is a grave threat to our current way of life.....

People always seem to confuse Geomagnetic storms with EMPs. Others have already said it in this thread, but let me go ahead and reiterate a little.

When you have a CME or Geomagnetic storm, the interference with Earth's magnetosphere creates what is known as Geomagnetically induced current.

Geomagnetically Induced Current works in pretty much the same way that a contactless dynamo does. A strong magnetic field moves over conductive material like copper wire or pipes. As a result it generates electricity.

In the case of a geomagnetic storm, it is creating electricity in this way on a grand scale. Turning the Earth into a gigantic dynamo.

This strong, unregulated electrical current is what does the damage. Transformers hooked to power lines cannot deal with the sudden surge of electricity and explode. Electronics also run the risk of overcharging and burning out.

As a result, the power would go out for an estimated 3 years, minimum until new transformers could be installed. Just like an EMP attack.

reply to post by Raud


Worse case scenario?
We all die period.