Would You be so self righteous

i think this is a borderline philosophical/religious question. i am generalizing to non Christians, just for arguments sake. In light of the other thread. www.abovetopsecret.com...

hypothetically.. if you were raised outside of the Christian understanding of salvation only by faith and not works... you were never taught anything about any religion .. no church, no praying, no bible, no anything.. and then were presented with the Gospel of Jesus. do you think after reading it you would take it seriously and want to become a christian?

do you think you would take it as seriously and defend it so adamantly? Based on the fact you have nothing, or what you do have condemns you, your own actions? You hate yourself for how you treat others?

im in no way trying to single out non christians or trying to provoke anything, its just an idea ive been thinking about alot lately.

i plan on raising my children with the knowledge of Jesus, from birth, because I dont believe in anything else, because only Jesus makes me righteous before God and nothing I can do can. Other religions teach salvation by the works they do, Christianity teaches God loves us so much that he has done the work for us. We just have to accept Jesus.

there is alot of fear involved with going to hell and sinning and so forth based on sin and the fact we will be judged for the hurt we cause to others. Should we deny this? I feel this insecurity makes people reflect on their actions, question their own morality. Ask ourselves why we are motivated by selfishness.

so try to imagine the scenario, you're 18, no religious experience whatsoever and you are handed a bible by someone. do you take it seriously or as at fact? and why? Lets ask those in China or other countrys that dosnt have the gospel based on freedom, but are oppressed. No escape from guilt. the guilt WE ALL FEEL, when we oppress others for self gratification

its hard to see passed bias, but i think its a good way to help see things in relation to forgiveness. Jesus can just sound so incredulous, to some its to hard to believe and others, they just dismiss him based on their righteousness or nothing as Budhism teaches.
Buddha teaches a blank state, the God of the Jews and Christians teaches a judgement based on actions.
Time to pay for your actions. It amazes me some think they will get away with the horrible things they have done, and amazes me some deny the horrible things they have done.
Hope you have deep pockets, or a mate with deep pockets. I have.He has already paid for my sin.

How insane the original thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...
A person judging forgiveness from a place that forgiveness is taken for granted.
Go to hell, a hell on Earth and ask the same question to them.
The USA , land of wealthy and land of the lost.
My country is the same, sadly.

But the great white throne judgement is not based on actions. The bible clearly states that those whose names are not found written in the lambs book of life are doomed to eternal damnation.

This is the problem people have with christianity. According to your bible, all have already been found guilty. And there is no redemption for them unless they accept and agree with God's verdict of guilty on all counts. And then accept the sacrifice Christ gave for their redemption. But that also means they are indebted to him, and must live according to his edicts, or they risk falling from grace. And on top of that, they must also see all other humans as guilty by default. And if you aren't christian, you're going to hell, and afterward, the lake of fire.

Jesus said himself he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. The sword represents division. So he came to divide. Hence, christianity has indeed been one of the most divisive agents on earth in modern history.

so try to imagine the scenario, you're 18, no religious experience whatsoever and you are handed a bible by someone. do you take it seriously or as at fact? and why?

Going by christians own belief, this question is redundant. Because by your beliefs, it is the "holy spirit" that turns mens hearts to god. So what each of us thinks right now is a moot point. By your beliefs, it is what we feel in our hearts at the moment of presentation that matters.

So until it actually happens, no one can answer this question honestly.

Well I was raised atheist, got into esoteric studies, and currently don't identify as any religion. Yet here I am to defend the teachings of Christ! Though I understand what you mean by "Christian", the problem with Christianity is that the men who were supposed to preserve the religion destroyed it out of ignorance and fear, rather than expand it they restricted it, rather than publish it they burned it. Whats left is a small remnant of the real teachings, but to those who Understand nothing can be hidden, a single page of the teachings of Jesus would suffice to tell all one needed to know about his nature and mission on Earth.

Buddha also taught judgment based on actions, and he called it Karma. He said if you kill things, or are selfish, and so forth that you will experience suffering. He taught this as a doctrine of Law, not as a "well it might happen to you". He taught it because he had experienced it, fully understood it, and knew it was true.

To conceive this same process as God is only slightly different, and those who understand the esoteric aspect of the Bible don't fear God because they know God is all loving and benevolent, but that mankind, because of his fear, has turned God into some bogeyman out to get us. They know that the judgment spoken of in the Bible comes as a result of their actions. Even Jesus knew this, and taught it in his own way. For example:

"You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else?" - Mathew 5:43-47

Whenever Jesus says "Law" he means Karma. Here he is saying that God is all loving, merciful, and does not discriminate. If we want to become like the Sons of God, we must also be like this. He is here talking about also abandoning being selfish, and loving all, even those who we don't know. In short, he is teaching the Doctrine of Compassion, just like Buddha...

Also:

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Mathew 7:12

Here he simplifies the whole teaching of the Law, of Karma. Do to others what you want done to you. Hes not saying "Do this, or God will punish you". He just says that if you treat others kindly, then kindness will come your way. If you are angry and mean, that will come your way. Thats because according to Karma we are our own Lawgiver, we choose what kind of reality we want to live in based on our actions.

And ill end with:

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him." John 3:16-17

Here its clear. Jesus wasn't sent to judge us, but to teach us his doctrine and truth. We saw above that God loves all, and he sends Jesus because he wants us all to understand what Jesus understood. He wants us to all be like his Son. In short, to all come into Christ Consciousness.

The problem is that people don't have access to a Church that will actually teach them the real doctrine of the Christ, they don't even know such a doctrine exists. They are just taught fear from the pulpit, and told that spiritual experiences are demonic and satanic. I can't emphasize just how horrible and evil and wrong so much of it is. The teaching that seeing the divine is not for us anymore, for example, because we are not worthy! The twisting of a single passage until its meaning is so skewed and so rooted in fear that only the lowest part of our selves can identify with it. The men who teach these doctrines are truly servants of evil, because they keep the souls of men enslaved to fear and ignorance, and keep them from knowing the Glory of the Solar Logos.

As a child I knew very very little about God or religion in general. What little I did know drove me to know more as an adult. I've always known deep down that there was much more to life than life itself.

Whenever I look up at the night sky I feel an overpowering sense of a being much greater than myself. That's how I know that God is real.

Originally posted by boonym
Time to pay for your actions. It amazes me some think they will get away with the horrible things they have done, and amazes me some deny the horrible things they have done.


...the guilt WE ALL FEEL, when we oppress others for self gratification...

I do not encounter too many people on ATS who I consider to be genuinely sick. but, friend, your mind has a disease at its core.

to help you identify this disease, I have quoted the text above and offer the following:

you have misidentified the "order of causality" in the above thinking. guilt CAUSES the impulse toward self gratification which is ultimately self-destructive.


thus, the truth that will set you free is the following:

you are not guilty. you have nothing to be forgiven of. you did not generate this mess, and holding yourself accountable for it through self prostration will only further the cycle.

you have been lied to.

there is no being that can offer forgiveness....

....there is nothing to be forgiven of.

Originally posted by tgidkp

Originally posted by boonym
Time to pay for your actions. It amazes me some think they will get away with the horrible things they have done, and amazes me some deny the horrible things they have done.


...the guilt WE ALL FEEL, when we oppress others for self gratification...

I do not encounter too many people on ATS who I consider to be genuinely sick. but, friend, your mind has a disease at its core.

to help you identify this disease, I have quoted the text above and offer the following:

you have misidentified the "order of causality" in the above thinking. guilt CAUSES the impulse toward self gratification which is ultimately self-destructive.


thus, the truth that will set you free is the following:

you are not guilty. you have nothing to be forgiven of. you did not generate this mess, and holding yourself accountable for it through self prostration will only further the cycle.

you have been lied to.

there is no being that can offer forgiveness....

....there is nothing to be forgiven of.

There is a good amount of truth to that last statement.

reply to post by Seventhdoor


Ahhh, someone else who understands, who "groks" most fully, praise GOD I'm not alone!

Thank you for being out there, this means so much to me, thank you for being you, for having the capacity to look again and in seeking, find.

"I'll meet you in the middle."
~ from the movie, "Braveheart"