One Mega Watt E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful!

"interrupted each phase periodically in order to modulate input"

modulating the power input, using a triac, via interrupting each phase periodically, produces this heating waveform:



That is a square wave being triggered periodically in order to respond to the heating cycle in the reactor. We can not see the fine resolution of that square wave, so it is possible some finer power ramping is done between on/off states. A triac can certainly finely modulate the power ramp - switching at rates up to 1Mhz. Please explain how that is not a waveform?

That is one possibility.

There are other possibilities with the input and coil configuration for dual resistive/inductive heating. There are also possibilities for more complex signals (in my head). All of those could also be described as a 'secret waveform'.

If you want a list of how the word 'waveform' is abused by science, go look at quantum mechanics..

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Esdoze
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

And does your fairy dust engined car perform at least 10 times as better as any other known car, including formula 1 racing cars? By comparison, this is what has been tested.

edit on 2013-5-26 by Esdoze because: (no reason given)

No, that is not what was tested. That is the result based on information provided to them. Based on what they were TOLD was under the hood, it performed well.

My Ferrari you can test has a 2 cylinder engine and runs on 1 ounce of fairy dust. Trust me.

BTW - page 22:

Ragone Chart
Upon completion of the test, the E-Cat HT2 was opened, and the innermost cylinder, sealed by caps and containing the powder charges, was extracted. It was then weighed (1537.6 g) and subsequently cut open in the middle on a lathe. Before removal of the powder charges, the cylinder was weighed once again (1522.9 g), to compensate for the steel machine shavings lost. Lastly, the inner powders were extracted by the manufacturer (in separate premises we did not have access to), and the empty cylinder was weighed once again (1522.6 g). The weight that may be assigned to the powder charges is therefore on the order of 0.3 g; here it shall be conservatively assumed to have value of 1 g, in order to take into account any possible source of error linked to the measurement.

So the authors of the paper apparently saw their unit dismantled and the core containing some powder was cut open on a lathe before them? But they did not get to examine the powder. They estimate 1g of powder.

Given that the dummy run of this unit produced a maximum of 300c using resistors alone. 1g of which powder is causing this thing to glow red hot at 800c?

Originally posted by yampa
Just because you imagine in your head that 'waveform' means a smooth alternating sine wave over a single, low frequency power line, does not mean that is what is facilitating the supposed reaction. Thus it is meaningless what you believe triacs can and can't do because you're only prepared to accept that waveform means what you think it does (ie, whatever cannot be done).

I do believe I said upthread "unless plain old phase control waveforms are secret". TRIACs actually don't produce a smooth alternating sine wave as an output - they always chop off the first few volts even if you tie the gate input high. But when you're using them to control RMS power, the waveform looks like a phase control waveform, because that's what you do with them. If Rossi wants to call that "an industrial secret waveform" then I suppose that could be it, but in that case, it's also the industrial secret of any cheap lamp dimmer.

I suggest turning to page 25 of the report and look at some of the waveforms. This heating sequence alone can be considered a 'secret waveform', purely by moderating the duty cycle of the resistor coils with triacs. Please tell us how you know that this simple heating cycle wasn't what the author of the paper meant by waveform?

Seems a bit of a stretch, since he said the input to the apparatus was a secret waveform modulated by TRIACs.

I happen to think there is maybe more going on over the power lines than simple on/off control, but that is my own speculation.

Then say what it is, because that's basically what you're going to get with TRIACs.

...but your technical analysis is surely not impressing others who work in the field of electronics.

It's what I do for a very nice living. Bring it - we'll compare knowledge bases.

Originally posted by yampa

You could also observe that a 'heating coil' might not simply be radiating heat. Coils also strongly radiate electrical charge.

Only if the insulation's bad. Seriously - radiate CHARGE? You are claiming that coils emit electrons or, what, charged air ions? Protons?

Charge can be switched far more quickly than heat, and different coil morphologies can provide selective emission of strongly focussed EM forces.

'Strongly focused' is a stretch, but magnetic fields, yes. EM, not so much.

Originally posted by yampa
That is a square wave being triggered periodically in order to respond to the heating cycle in the reactor. We can not see the fine resolution of that square wave, so it is possible some finer power ramping is done between on/off states. A triac can certainly finely modulate the power ramp - switching at rates up to 1Mhz. Please explain how that is not a waveform?

Well, you can't really "finely modulate" with one. And I'd really like to see a TRIAC that can switch at 1MHz. Perhaps you can post a data sheet link? Most TRIACs, even very small ones, take something like 100us to switch on at the rated gate current. You can blast the gate with a big pulse and turn one on with somewhat less pulse width - maybe down to 1us. But that's not going to get you anywhere near 1MHz switching rates. And of course, you can't switch one OFF. It's on until the MTx current falls below Ih, so it's going to be there until the zero crossing on the input AC. And of course, on and off are all you get from a TRIAC, so "modulate" is sort of limited. If you're looking at something long and slow, like a battery charger where the AC line frequency is fast compared to your process, then yes, you can fiddle the RMS average power with one.

There are other possibilities with the input and coil configuration for dual resistive/inductive heating. There are also possibilities for more complex signals (in my head). All of those could also be described as a 'secret waveform'.

Inductive heating requires lots o' RF. Not happening with a TRIAC. Other than, of course, the bursts of RF noise you create when you're doing AC phase control with one.

So to summarise, yes the heating waveform can be described a 'secret waveform' if we consider lamp dimmer power control being triggered periodically as a waveform. Knowing the right time to turn the power on and off is enough to justify that description. Therefore, the author of the paper is possibly guilty of hyperbole but no technical error has been discovered.

As to my personal ideas about a system that a triac might be part of, I'm not claiming to be an expert in induction heating or signal/noise generation using coils, but I fail to see how the presence of triacs in the power control system eliminates this possibility? I see lots of things about SCRs operating at 10kHz being used for induction heating. So maybe they are or aren't part of such a system. We really have no idea what part of the system the triacs were playing. We have no idea how complex the signal coming out of the control box is, nor which part of the chain the triac is playing.

You say the usage of triacs to modulate the signal as part of the power control system should make us suspicious. But you have not made any kind of convincing case imo. At worst we have a semantic argument about what constitutes a waveform and maybe an accusation of hyperbole for the authors of the paper.

If you want to discredit this paper, why not just point out that all of Rossi's tests have been fed from outlets/generators which are not properly verified. That is a smoking gun. Triacs forming some unknown part of an unknown power system are not (especially when you consider triacs were no longer present in the same form for the later test).

Originally posted by yampa
So to summarise, yes the heating waveform can be described a 'secret waveform' if we consider lamp dimmer power control being triggered periodically as a waveform. Knowing the right time to turn the power on and off is enough to justify that description. Therefore, the author of the paper is possibly guilty of hyperbole but no technical error has been discovered.

Meh - maybe. I still think the way it's worded that it's intended to sound 'sciency'. I don't think you're going to find a lot of engineers that would word that that way.

As to my personal ideas about a system that a triac might be part of, I'm not claiming to be an expert in induction heating or signal/noise generation using coils, but I fail to see how the presence of triacs in the power control system eliminates this possibility? I see lots of things about SCRs operating at 10kHz being used for induction heating. So maybe they are or aren't part of such a system.

SCRs are generally significantly faster than TRIACs, because of the internal design. You really don't need/want a TRIAC there anyway. But 10kHz is about it for SCRs, and TRIACs are worse.

We really have no idea what part of the system the triacs were playing. We have no idea how complex the signal coming out of the control box is, nor which part of the chain the triac is playing.

No, but what other part did the guy mention? Not a hint of MOSFETs or IGBTs. The comment was that they were making secret waveforms modulated by TRIACs. The implication is that this was the prime component, the 'secret' behind the secret waveform. Sure, it COULD be that it's just there as a crude front-end regulator the way HP used to do their bench power supplies and the whole thing's done by a really nice MOSFET setup they somehow forgot to mention.

You say the usage of triacs to modulate the signal as part of the power control system should make us suspicious. But you have not made any kind of convincing case imo. At worst we have a semantic argument about what constitutes a waveform and maybe an accusation of hyperbole for the authors of the paper.

Again - maybe, but if you wanted me to invest in a suspicious setup like this and then tried to sell me on the secret ingredient being a TRIAC I'd run. You might believe it if you like.

If you want to discredit this paper, why not just point out that all of Rossi's tests have been fed from outlets/generators which are not properly verified. That is a smoking gun. Triacs forming some unknown part of an unknown power system are not (especially when you consider triacs were no longer present in the same form for the later test).

Personally, in the case of a LENR machine, I wouldn't believe it unless I disassembled the whole thing and examined it, then set up the calorimetry myself. Then it would have to run far far past the possibility of some exothermic chemical reaction between the nickel and hydrogen. But if I wasn't 100% convinced of what was in the 'catalyst' I wouldn't believe it until it generated more heat than you could get from any practical chemical reaction he might be spoofing you with with that size/mass.

Originally posted by Esdoze
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

They did test it in person. Read the report.

Yes, and they were not allowed to look "under the hood".

Somewhat frustratingly, the seven scientists were not allowed to look inside the steel cylinder that houses the fuel

I will let you test my Fairy car in person, you jut can't look at the engine. Trust me though, it's Fairy Power. The fact the scientists were not allowed to verify the fuel source means the entirety of the results depends on faith that the fuel is exactly what Rossi told them was. Therefore the entirety of the experiment is pointless, as the fuel could have been anything.

Originally posted by yampa

the inner powders were extracted by the manufacturer (in separate premises we did not have access to), and the empty cylinder was weighed once again (1522.6 g).

So the authors of the paper apparently saw their unit dismantled and the core containing some powder was cut open on a lathe before them? But they did not get to examine the powder. They estimate 1g of powder.

Given that the dummy run of this unit produced a maximum of 300c using resistors alone. 1g of which powder is causing this thing to glow red hot at 800c?

Seriously, you seem intelligent, why do you suddenly lose all logic when it comes to this subject?

the inner powders were extracted by the manufacturer (in separate premises we did not have access to), and the empty cylinder was weighed once again

We have no idea what occurred in secret, nor do the scientists. Once again, the results are ONLY VALID if we completely trust Rossi and believe what he say is true. If Rossi is willing to lie, which he has 100% been proven to have already done with the e-Cat, then the results hold no validity.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by Esdoze
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

They did test it in person. Read the report.

Yes, and they were not allowed to look "under the hood".

Somewhat frustratingly, the seven scientists were not allowed to look inside the steel cylinder that houses the fuel

I will let you test my Fairy car in person, you jut can't look at the engine. Trust me though, it's Fairy Power. The fact the scientists were not allowed to verify the fuel source means the entirety of the results depends on faith that the fuel is exactly what Rossi told them was. Therefore the entirety of the experiment is pointless, as the fuel could have been anything.

I would just like to independently verify that OR04's car does indeed run on fairy dust. I have seen it and can confirm that it also operates more than 700% more efficiently than any other car currently running on fairy dust.

By virtue of this post, OR04's car now has equivalent scientific validity to Rossi's Tube O' Magic (TM)

In many ways, even if Rossi is absolutely bang on the money, he's taken so many steps to destroy his credibility that few people would feel safe believing anything he presents. It's not "the man" or "the oil companies" or "the energy companies" making sure that this magical device doesn't reach market... it's Rossi acting like a charlatan throughout that will overshadow anything that might (and that is a very reserved "might") genuinely come out of this project.

reply to post by yampa


appologies - i missed this previously :

So the authors of the paper apparently saw their unit dismantled and the core containing some powder was cut open on a lathe before them?

if the nickel powder and " secret sauce " is now inside some " fuel rod / pellet " that cannot be opened or has no holes

how is the hydrogen added ??

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by yampa

 

appologies - i missed this previously :

So the authors of the paper apparently saw their unit dismantled and the core containing some powder was cut open on a lathe before them?

if the nickel powder and " secret sauce " is now inside some " fuel rod / pellet " that cannot be opened or has no holes

how is the hydrogen added ??

No, it was not cut open in front of them. Per the article ....

the inner powders were extracted by the manufacturer (in separate premises we did not have access to), and the empty cylinder was weighed once again

So what was in there is unknown and we have to rely on Rossi's word.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


i think you have graped the wrong end of my post - i am not addressing the " chain of evidence " and oversight by the alledged testers - but the mechanics of a sealed / unopenable " fuel rod "

this element of the tail has not arrisen before - and to spell it out - i think it smacks of fraud - an un nescecary extra level of complexity - that only serves to hinder genuine investigation

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

i think you have graped the wrong end of my post - i am not addressing the " chain of evidence " and oversight by the alledged testers - but the mechanics of a sealed / unopenable " fuel rod "

this element of the tail has not arrisen before - and to spell it out - i think it smacks of fraud - an un nescecary extra level of complexity - that only serves to hinder genuine investigation

My wording could have been better. I was simply adding to what you said, stating the evidence of fraud is even higher than you presented. Every aspect of the e-Cat smacks of fraud.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

No, it was not cut open in front of them. Per the article ....

the inner powders were extracted by the manufacturer (in separate premises we did not have access to), and the empty cylinder was weighed once again

So what was in there is unknown and we have to rely on Rossi's word.

Why are you removing the start of that passage? The start of the passage is:

Upon completion of the test, the E-Cat HT2 was opened, and the innermost cylinder, sealed by caps and containing the powder charges, was extracted. It was then weighed (1537.6 g) and subsequently cut open in the middle on a lathe. Before removal of the powder charges, the cylinder was weighed once again (1522.9 g), to compensate for the steel machine shavings lost.

They seem to describe weighing the central cylinder and seeing it cut open on a lathe, but they did not get to extract the powders. - That's my reading of it. But maybe the cutting took place elsewhere too.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by yampa

 

appologies - i missed this previously :

So the authors of the paper apparently saw their unit dismantled and the core containing some powder was cut open on a lathe before them?

if the nickel powder and " secret sauce " is now inside some " fuel rod / pellet " that cannot be opened or has no holes

how is the hydrogen added ??

That's a good point. It does deviate from the other ecats where they had a gas input. And 'hot hammering' caps on a metal tube doesn't sound particularly hydrogen gas friendly.

Rossi has been talking for some time about having a solid fuel solution. Maybe he's preloading the nickel powder with hydrogen then capping it? NiMH batteries seem to do a pretty good job of maintaining a hydrogen exchange cycle with a basic seal.

Or maybe he's using Ammonia Borane and doing a preloading of the nickel via that?

or maybe he's just making the whole thing up..

I still think that anyone who wants to keep any over unity technology to themselves is asking for trouble. Free energy is such a large social issue for the world that all of it should be in the public domain and so everyone gets to have a go if they want to. OK, I can understand that they and their backers have spent a lot of money on this thing, but as I said Free Energy is a huge issue for the world and could eliminate a lot of world problems - such as dirty water etc. Greed and greed and greed just keep raising their ugly heads again and again.

There are plenty of opportunities to make the hardware for example, and to make money from that. Also to make things as a result of free energy cost savings. There must be loads of things which need huge amounts of power where the cost of making it is mainly the energy costs.

Originally posted by qmantoo
I still think that anyone who wants to keep any over unity technology to themselves is asking for trouble.

I don't think rossi has anything viable or it would have been in the market already.
Lol and secret waveforms? Bring on the muppets

A copy of the 3rd Party Report has somehow been unofficially released and has been posted

from the Report;

ABSTRACT New results are presented from an extended experimental investigation of anomalous heat production in a special type of reactor tube operating at high temperatures. The reactor, named E-Cat, is charged with a small amount of hydrogen-loaded nickel powder plus some additives, mainly Lithium. The reaction is primarily initiated by heat from resistor coils around the reactor tube. Measurements of the radiated power from the reactor were performed with high-resolution thermal imaging cameras. The measurements of electrical power input were performed with a large bandwidth three-phase power analyzer. Data were collected during 32 days of running in March 2014. The reactor operating point was set to about 1260 ºC in the first half of the run, and at about 1400 °C in the second half. The measured energy balance between input and output heat yielded a COP factor of about 3.2 and 3.6 for the 1260 ºC and 1400 ºC runs, respectively. The total net energy obtained during the 32 days run was about 1.5 MWh. This amount of energy is far more than can be obtained from any known chemical sources in the small reactor volume. A sample of the fuel was carefully examined with respect to its isotopic composition before the run and after the run, using several standard methods: XPS, EDS, SIMS, ICP-MS and ICP-AES. The isotope composition in Lithium and Nickel was found to agree with the natural composition before the run, while after the run it was found to have changed substantially. Nuclear reactions are therefore indicated to be present in the run process, which however is hard to reconcile with the fact that no radioactivity was detected outside the reactor during the run.

If this leaked report is the real thing, then I am at 100% on the odds of the Rossi effect being real,... big news for the world.

The leak is here; www.sifferkoll.se...

Direct download to the .PDF here; www.sifferkoll.se...

I was wondering how this was going.

so is Rossi still paying his utility bills? or is he off grid?
... yeah, thought so.

unexplained heat generation - have they found out how to complete the loop and actually harvest that excess energy?
... uh-huh - no of course not.

thread started in 2011, and still nothing in plain public view of working 'free energy' - why not?

TPTB haven't let him go public because they haven't figured out how to tax it yet, or how BigOil is going to make money from it.