One Mega Watt E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful!

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reply to post by hawkiye


That's never what I said. I said tell me who these expert scientists are. Then I said next thing you will be saying it's NASA, which you have said in the past. Again, WHO are these scientists, if you can't name them you are wrong. Enough said.
ETA: Here is my quote.

Give me the name of these scientists. If you can't, admit you're wrong.

The NASA part was another post entirely even.

reply to post by r2d246


That test you quoted was a scam. No one named, no proof, no evidence, nothing verifiable, just Rossi saying HEY it was tested and it works, trust me and send me money.

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reply to post by hawkiye


Still waiting for you to name just one of these many expert scientists.

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Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by hawkiye

 

That's never what I said. I said tell me who these expert scientists are. Then I said next thing you will be saying it's NASA, which you have said in the past. Again, WHO are these scientists, if you can't name them you are wrong. Enough said.
ETA: Here is my quote.

Give me the name of these scientists. If you can't, admit you're wrong.

The NASA part was another post entirely even.

edit on 25-9-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

Try again skippy here is your exact quote:

I'm just waiting for the guy to come back and say NASA tested it and said it worked. Be good for a chuckle.

From this post: reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

But thanks for proving you are a liar...

Where did I lie. That's exactly what I said I said. YOU claimed I said "Why don't you post those claims that NASA tested it and it worked or admit you are wrong?"

You combined two different posts to create a message I did not say.

I'm just waiting for the guy to come back and say NASA tested it and said it worked. Be good for a chuckle.

Give me the name of these scientists. If you can't, admit you're wrong.

So now show me where I had ONE post talking about NASA and you admitting you were wrong. I'll wait for that.

So the only liar is you? Although I do not think you are lying, I think you are desperate for a way out of naming those scientists, BECAUSE YOU CANT.

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Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

ll

LOL!

You really should stop believing your own hype you're simply not that smart as evidenced by you being caught in a lie and now still trying to lie your way out of it. Give it up you have been owned you are just embarrassing yourself now...

I won't hold my breath... No need for me to continue to respond to your BS

edit on 25-9-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

Translation, there are no scientists so I'm leaving this discussion now that I'm proven to be as much a fraud as Rossi is.

I posted all my quotes word for word to show you were in fact the liar. I'm still waiting on the names of those expert scientists.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by yampa

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

He could say his equipment was stolen by Martians and his followers would believe him.

What do you think about nickel-hydrogen heat engines in general?

Bit early to write that field off entirely, imo. Other serious researchers are putting time into it.

I think it definitely should be studied. Rossi in no way equals LENR. As soon as someone has something and allows actual verification and does not act like a shady scam artist I would be thrilled. I would love to have something like this, Rossi just hasn't invented it.

You seem to be conflating products with techniques. You say the field is worth studying - but proof for you would be a working product? Why is it the job of lone manufacturers to prove the underlying mechanism to science, as opposed to science being naturally interested in processes which apparently break thermodynamics assumptions?

There is easily enough experimental construction information for any scientist to provide proof one way or another about anomalous heating, above that explainable by a chemical reaction. Positive proof would automatically prove problematic for arguments against practical LENR based on standard thermodynamics assumptions. In a sane world, that would be a breakthrough. In current reality, most (zombies) don't really care.

Here is an exact description of how to do that kind of experiment:



Full pdf:
www.22passi.it...

A quote from page 2:

The deep interest in Ni comes, among others, because: a) there is the possibility to use
H2 instead of expensive D2; b) the much lower cost of Ni in respect to the precious metal
Pd; c) reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani
(since 2010) and, overall, claims by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could
be further investigated.

Interesting to note that 10 people from the National Institute of Nuclear Physics, Italy aren't uncomfortable with sourcing ideas for their experiment partially from Rossi and Defkalion. Perhaps because these people are smart enough to realise that it doesn't matter if Rossi's product is a fraud if the underlying mechanism is sound? (I suppose this is where some will predictably say something about 'secret catalysts', further showing their inability to properly comprehend the mechanism).

Originally posted by yampa

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by yampa

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

He could say his equipment was stolen by Martians and his followers would believe him.

What do you think about nickel-hydrogen heat engines in general?

Bit early to write that field off entirely, imo. Other serious researchers are putting time into it.

I think it definitely should be studied. Rossi in no way equals LENR. As soon as someone has something and allows actual verification and does not act like a shady scam artist I would be thrilled. I would love to have something like this, Rossi just hasn't invented it.

You seem to be conflating products with techniques. You say the field is worth studying - but proof for you would be a working product? Why is it the job of lone manufacturers to prove the underlying mechanism to science, as opposed to science being naturally interested in processes which apparently break thermodynamics assumptions?

There is easily enough experimental construction information for any scientist to provide proof one way or another about anomalous heating, above that explainable by a chemical reaction. Positive proof would automatically prove problematic for arguments against practical LENR based on standard thermodynamics assumptions. In a sane world, that would be a breakthrough. In current reality, most (zombies) don't really care.

Here is an exact description of how to do that kind of experiment:

Full pdf:
www.22passi.it...

A quote from page 2:

The deep interest in Ni comes, among others, because: a) there is the possibility to use
H2 instead of expensive D2; b) the much lower cost of Ni in respect to the precious metal
Pd; c) reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani
(since 2010) and, overall, claims by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could
be further investigated.

Interesting to note that 10 people from the National Institute of Nuclear Physics, Italy aren't uncomfortable with sourcing ideas for their experiment partially from Rossi and Defkalion. Perhaps because these people are smart enough to realise that it doesn't matter if Rossi's product is a fraud if the underlying mechanism is sound? (I suppose this is where some will predictably say something about 'secret catalysts', further showing their inability to properly comprehend the mechanism).

No, you seem to be obfuscating the subject. Why does a manufacturer have to create the product? The working product usually comes about long BEFORE manufacturing. That is why Rossi is a scam artist. He is manufacturing a product which has no working version. Science is naturally interested, they conduct experiments, they come up with a working model, they allow the work to be peer reviewed and get patents. THAT is a working model. Manufacturing doesn't even enter into it and I never mentioned it.

Well, if as you say the experiment is easy, and it has never been proved, the logical conclusion is that LENR doesn't work. You should really rethink your position.

As far as the Italian researchers go, I am unsure how that statement is intended to disagree with anything I said.

No, you seem to be obfuscating the subject. Why does a manufacturer have to create the product? The working product usually comes about long BEFORE manufacturing. That is why Rossi is a scam artist. He is manufacturing a product which has no working version. Science is naturally interested, they conduct experiments, they come up with a working model, they allow the work to be peer reviewed and get patents. THAT is a working model. Manufacturing doesn't even enter into it and I never mentioned it.

Well, if as you say the experiment is easy, and it has never been proved, the logical conclusion is that LENR doesn't work. You should really rethink your position.

As far as the Italian researchers go, I am unsure how that statement is intended to disagree with anything I said.

How am I obfuscating by showing you a paper which purports to confirm part of the mechanism that Rossi and Defkalion are claiming to use? That's exactly what you are asking for in your second post. The failure here is the lack of interest from science in general, not a failure to 'have something which allows actual verification'.

I assumed you were asking for a finished product from a manufacturer of practical LENR units because you wrote - "As soon as someone has something and allows actual verification and does not act like a shady scam artist I would be thrilled." There is at least 10 years of work by people constructing experiments which would allow verification of anomalous 'above chemical heating' reactions. The paper I linked to explicitly references confirmation of the results of other (mainly Japanese) professional scientific researchers. If that kind of work doesn't allow 'actual verification' by other independent scientists, what does? A finished, practical, heat generation unit?

"Well, if as you say the experiment is easy, and it has never been proved, the logical conclusion is that LENR doesn't work. You should really rethink your position."

um, I'm pointing you right at a document which purports to show anomalous heating, above chemical levels, in confirmation of the work of other researchers. Why would I rethink my position when I am showing you compelling data of proof? I think it's you that needs to get your head around this mechanism. Your inability to admit the fundamentals of these experiments, and your obsession with proving one man as a fraud (despite the fact this is irrelevant to the mechanism) seems to be clouding your ability to learn new things.

You yourself are proving why there hasn't been wider proof or disproof of these experiments. You are so fixed in your mindset you won't even allow for entertaining the possibility that nature might work a little differently at the nanoscale than existing models predict.

Originally posted by hawkiye
No one has ever said a NASA scientist tested it and it works however a NASA Scientist did speak positively of it and the tests that have been done on it but being careful not to endorse it and in fact started doing their own LENR research as a result of Rossi's tests so as not to get left in the dust in case his does come to market. And that has been posted here too...

Your first post in this thread really looked like that, at least to me.

Originally posted by hawkiye
This is great news! For those not following this several prominent scientist including from NASA have already verified the E-Cat runs with no outside power sources. I am sure the scientist from the customers who are buying checked for this also.

But I may be wrong, as English is not my language.

Originally posted by ArMaP
But I may be wrong, as English is not my language.

English is my first language and it looks like that to me too. I don't think there's any problem here with your English.

wow - this farce is still on-going ?

i love how believers are now fixated on the " interest shown " by other parties in nickel / hidrogen LENR research and their peliminary results

where are rossi / defkalion ? they allegedly had working commercial products 6 months ago

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

i love how believers are now fixated on the " interest shown " by other parties in nickel / hidrogen LENR research and their peliminary results

Why wouldn't you be interested in preliminary research results which could possibly violate the assumptions of traditional thermodynamics? I find the idea that a team from the National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Italy is apparently confirming the mechanism of those attempting to commercialise the technique at least a bit interesting.

I guess that kind of thing is 'dur, booooring' to most zombies, though.

Originally posted by yampa

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

i love how believers are now fixated on the " interest shown " by other parties in nickel / hidrogen LENR research and their peliminary results

Why wouldn't you be interested in preliminary research results which could possibly violate the assumptions of traditional thermodynamics? I find the idea that a team from the National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Italy is apparently confirming the mechanism of those attempting to commercialise the technique at least a bit interesting.

I guess that kind of thing is 'dur, booooring' to most zombies, though.

The real question is why don't you listen? Where did the results come from? A WORKING MODEL. They didn't pull numbers out of a hat. They created something to test an idea. Here are my quotes.

The working product usually comes about long BEFORE manufacturing.

So you typically make sure it works BEFORE you manufacture it. Manufacturing is the VERY LAST step unless you are a scam artist like Rossi.

Science is naturally interested, they conduct experiments, they come up with a working model, they allow the work to be peer reviewed and get patents. THAT is a working model. Manufacturing doesn't even enter into it and I never mentioned it.

It would appear that the scientists you talk about in Italy are following this exact method. Rossi did not follow this method.
This is your quote.

You yourself are proving why there hasn't been wider proof or disproof of these experiments. You are so fixed in your mindset you won't even allow for entertaining the possibility that nature might work a little differently at the nanoscale than existing models predict.

Here is what I have been saying.

I think it definitely should be studied.

I would love to have something like this, Rossi just hasn't invented it.

You just want to play the victim and act like the whole world is against you apparently, since I have been saying from day 1 that Rossi is a scam, but there may be something here and hopefully actual scientists pursue it. As far as nature not working differently on the nanoscale and my not accepting it, you have no idea what I accept, or what I know. It's common knowledge things work differently on the nano scale. When was the last time Gold was ruby red? Or silver was blonde/yellow? That's the reality at the nano scale, things work differently.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

I'm glad you admit that there might be a real phenomena to study here. That leaves open the possibility that Rossi and Defkalion have a genuine, largely unknown mechanism at the heart of their machine.

I personally have no problems seeing the previous work done over the last 20 years by the researchers highlighted in this paper as foundations for a working model. Celani is happy to make the connection with Rossi's work and these previous experiments too.

Rossi has (non scientifically) presented dozens of (apparently) working models of the core reactor over the last 10 years. I'm not sure why you are trying to imply that he's gone from nothing - a completely baseless, unsupported theory - to a mystery product which he is trying scam people with. That simply does not reflect reality.

You seem to be simultaneously admitting there is something worth studying, while denying Rossi the possibility of actually using this mechanism (and potentially slandering him).

Why can't Rossi be using what is shown in Celani's paper to fuel his e-cats? If he is actually doing this, where do you think the scam angle will come from?

reply to post by yampa


It's been detailed over and over, Rossi continually lies, refuses to allow independent testing, the list goes on and on and does not need to be rehashed. He's a fraud. If it walks like a duck and quacks .. you know the rest.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by yampa

 

It's been detailed over and over, Rossi continually lies, refuses to allow independent testing, the list goes on and on and does not need to be rehashed. He's a fraud. If it walks like a duck and quacks .. you know the rest.

That doesn't answer my question: Why can't Rossi be using what is shown in Celani's paper to fuel his e-cats? If he is actually doing this, where do you think the scam angle will come from?