If the VET MARINE dies BLOOD is on your hands OWS!!!

Originally posted by wardk28
You have people among the OWS trying to excelate this into an all out war. You can't just throw rocks and bottles at the police and expect them not to respond with force needed to break it up. Thats like going up and slapping a tiger, then putting the tiger's response on you tube, claiming brutality. Tear gas and rubber bullets are non lethel means of controlling a large crowd before someone gets killed. For those of you that have no idea about the types of force law enforcement are allowed to use, I recommend doing some research necessary force. They can use force equal to and one step above the force given to the officer. These guys don't know who they are dealing with at these protests and will do what is needed to make sure they go home to their family that night. So OWS you can either protest according to the law and keep it peaceful. Second option if you don't like the law or you don't think you are getting your message across, go all out and revolt against the system.

man, what is it with these kind of people on ATS, really? did you guys just flush your brains down the toilets today or what? One of my jobs when I was in the Air Force was security forces, and I have also been a prison guard, and know a thing or two about protests, occupations, riots, and use of force. Go look up the Use Of Force ladder, go do some real research, practice what you preach here pal. I've had lots of crap thrown at me by lots of people in these types of situations, and still had to stand there and take it. How ever you play this, it's still wrong what happened to the guy, PERIOD. A lot of these little nose runners out there with badges fresh outta the academy have no clue what it's like being in a real riot, or a violent angry protest. You don't provoke the masses ever. Especially by aiming a grenade launcher at someone, and shooing them with it. Or shoot at the people coming to an injured persons aid. what happened was plain and simple wrong, and some day you will come to terms with that....................................


oh yeah, btw, do some spell check before posting to, it makes you look real ignorant, maybe you need some brain food as well.

I think a random semi-biblical quote of

"Let him that is without sin cast the first stone.... Damnit mom put the rocks down!"


Fits here....

Blame his fellow protestors... for the police illegally misusing potentially lethal weapons on the unarmed.

The Likely ROE for that day was:

ROE: Do not directly fire rubber bullets at the head of a civilian. Do not fire 'bean-bags' at the face of your target.
Only fire your crowd control weapon at the CENTER OF MASS and then only if your life is in immanent threat or upon order by a superior officer.

ROE: Do not deliberately deploy flash bangs / concussion grenades in such a manner to deliberately inflict injury. Do not deploy concussion grenades unless you are at risk of bodily injury or at the command of a superior officer.

Hell the concussion grenades them selves are marked with a warning of possible bodily injury if misused.

----------------

I saw the video. There was no cause to throw a concussion grenade directly at a group of people trying to render aid to an American Citizen.

Especially since the Police were safely behind their 'barrier.'

I call BS on the OP.

M.

reply to post by popsmayhem


That's disrespectful and just plain stupid. The blood is on the hands of the oakland police department, not the protesters. Nobody (except you) thinks "Those damn protesters almost killed that guy!".

Tell you what, if this guy recovers from his near death experience and regains the ability to speak, why don't you go ask him if he blames the police officer that nearly killed him, or the protesters who were by his side.

Okay, I'm writing this in direct reply to the headline and OP not everything that came since, but how can anyone suggest this? I assume Scott Olsen is who we're talking about in a Marine being hurt. How can that be the FAULT of OWS when he willingly JOINED OWS and was standing with and in solidarity TO OWS of his own free will???

I would agree with your point if someone who was truly oblivious to the protest happened to be caught up and seriusly injured by something that happened as a result of the OWS activity. It's still quite a stretch but I can at least understand the logic involved for that scenario. Not this one though. Kinda weird logic at work there.

reply to post by 29INFDIV


29, First of we are not in some mud hut. We are in America. So we as a world leader should not be bonking anyone off the skull during peaceful protests on public grounds with 40 mm gas canisters. Then flash banging the group of ppl that rush to his side. If you google OWS Police Brutality you will get many o hits. We condem other govts for the actions that are being perpetrated onto our own citizens by our govt. It is escalating on both sides. The hope of this remainig peaceful is becoming far from reality.

There should be a "This is a hate mongering thread" button for threads on hear. While your at it you should also make a "This is a fear mongering thread" button as well.
This thread is only created to get peoples blood to boil. I suggest moderators make it so actual truth and knowledge gets out there to people, and not allow hate and fear to infect others that don't know any better, and actually are seeking for truth. The disinformationalists are getting old....

This thread was created to perpetuate a certain groups political ideology and to discredit OWS, not to address the actual meat of the issue.

The OP, like many others, is willing to support the troops when they are fighting wars oversees, but when the troops support a movement they disagree with...well they will justify any and all actions against them.

How's that for patriotism?

All the main players showed up, like NEO and Beezer, and even in the face of common sense and logic, they continue to push their extremist propaganda.

Pay no attention to the men behind the keyboards......when TSHTF they will still be there and pose no threat to those of us who are willing to stand up and fight for our Republic and stand by our brothers in uniform who stood up for our freedoms.

Bless this true American Marine who practiced the ultimate definition of patriotism:

Dissent Is The Highest Form of Patriotism

Originally posted by popsmayhem
It is still OWS protesters fault that he is injured
if it was not for OWS this would of never happened in the first place.

No, it's not... Again, NO ONE FORCED HIM TO GET INVOLVED!

If I go tomorrow, and I get hurt, it is MY FAULT.

Honestly, if anything it is his fault. How about that for a fair compromise?

His fault that he went there and now he is in the hospital after getting hit in the head with a tear canister.

Or perhaps another way to look at it... Martin Luther King Jr. died because of his protesting. Was it the fault of those who marched along side him or was it the fault of the bigoted fool who shot him?

With your logic, if there was only no civil rights movement, Martin Luther King Jr. might not have ever been shot...

Personally, I think the Civil Rights Movement was a good thing. Made some needed changes to this country, no?

Do you see how silly your words sound now? You should, because what you say, sounds silly to everyone else.

Off to bed for me.

If that person dies, the blame should be on the police. Who caused that injury to him? The police. We always blame the perpetrators, not the colleagues.

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by spacedoubt
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

You appear to be mad about this.
That's understandable, and completely normal.
But...
Are you positively sure your anger is pointed in the right direction?
Is it really possible that This man did not go out there (after work) of his own volition?

I just can not get over the fact this man survived two tours in Iraq
but gets maimed in oakland!!!

If there was no OWS this marine would of never been out there and would
never have gotten injured/ almost killed or even worse DOES die.

You do understand that he was a supporter of OWS...right? I mean...you can't be as thick as you're putting on can you?

I'm calling troll on this thread - no one is this stupid

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Okay, I'm writing this in direct reply to the headline and OP not everything that came since, but how can anyone suggest this? I assume Scott Olsen is who we're talking about in a Marine being hurt. How can that be the FAULT of OWS when he willingly JOINED OWS and was standing with and in solidarity TO OWS of his own free will???

I would agree with your point if someone who was truly oblivious to the protest happened to be caught up and seriusly injured by something that happened as a result of the OWS activity. It's still quite a stretch but I can at least understand the logic involved for that scenario. Not this one though. Kinda weird logic at work there.

Well the OWS protesters are blaming all the cops.

I say we blame all OWS!

reply to post by popsmayhem


Yeah.. they are blaming it on the cops because the cops did it.

OWS protestors weren't firing rubber bullets (which are illegal to shoot civilians with any place other than the legs). So a couple protestors threw bottles and rocks, they only did that because the cops were wearing their storm trooper riot gear. I promise you that. The cops show up dressed like that and people react knowing full well they wont harm the cops. If the cops came in their normal outfits no one would have thrown a thing.

Anyway, I wasn't going to post in this thread because I think you are just trolling, but no one is to blame except the police for their illegal and unnecessary force. If that man dies, it is on the police and only the police.
There are videos of a cop throwing a concussion/flashbang grenade at people that were obviously only trying to help the guy that was laying on the road dying. I assume you haven't seen it because no one could see it and blame the protestors and not say the police were in the wrong.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to

 

Yeah.. they are blaming it on the cops because the cops did it.

OWS protestors weren't firing rubber bullets (which are illegal to shoot civilians with any place other than the legs). So a couple protestors threw bottles and rocks, they only did that because the cops were wearing their storm trooper riot gear. I promise you that. The cops show up dressed like that and people react knowing full well they wont harm the cops. If the cops came in their normal outfits no one would have thrown a thing.

Anyway, I wasn't going to post in this thread because I think you are just trolling, but no one is to blame except the police for their illegal and unnecessary force. If that man dies, it is on the police and only the police.
There are videos of a cop throwing a concussion/flashbang grenade at people that were obviously only trying to help the guy that was laying on the road dying. I assume you haven't seen it because no one could see it and blame the protestors and not say the police were in the wrong.

Just hope this thread got people to think..


Is it ALL OWS protesters fault?

Is it ALL the cops fault?

The protesters refused to leave when told they could not stay over night.
That is why the cops showed up in the first place in riot gear.
The protesters started throwing objects at the cops
and gave them all the reason they needed to throw flash bangs
and tear gas.

That is how the marine was injured. Over OWS protesters
refusal to leave the park overnight.

Was it overkill? Maybe.
Was it all the cops fault?
NO to say that it was is absurd.

reply to post by popsmayhem

STOP PUTTING BLAME on everyone but yourselves!!!

Ok, I'll do that now.

If he dies, he is responsible for his own death for willingly choosing to protest.

I am glad we were able to clear that up.

reply to post by popsmayhem

Well the OWS protesters are blaming all the cops.

I say we blame all OWS!

Who could disagree with such broad, infallible language?...

reply to post by popsmayhem


This is the level to which ATS has fallen. Really, guys? This is where we're going?

Vile.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

This is the level to which ATS has fallen.

Yes!

It is no longer about right or wrong, morality or integrity. People will do anything to push their hardcore political beliefs into the social aspects of each of our lives!

Star for you!

reply to post by popsmayhem

The protesters refused to leave when told they could not stay over night.

Told by who, and what legal statute was cited?

That is why the cops showed up in the first place in riot gear.

If I recall correctly, they were ordered to go down there by the mayor.

The protesters started throwing objects at the cops
and gave them all the reason they needed to throw flash bangs
and tear gas.

Really, that's all they need? Some bottles, and they have permission to throw flash bangs, tear gas, and rubber bullets? They had helmets on, what a bunch of wimps

That is how the marine was injured. Over OWS protesters
refusal to leave the park overnight.

While an indirect relation can be traced, the protesters didn't shoot him in the head with a rubber bullet. So....your logic comes crumbling down.

Was it overkill? Maybe.

I think you mean absolutely, which is reflected by the police chief resigning.

Was it all the cops fault?
NO to say that it was is absurd.

The cops were the one that shot him with the weapon. They loaded it, aimed it, and pulled the trigger. It was all the cops fault. They were in riot gear, what kind of a little girl throws flashbangs because he almost got hit by a bottle?

Originally posted by TupacShakur
While an indirect relation can be traced, the protesters didn't shoot him in the head with a rubber bullet. So....your logic comes crumbling down.

Neither did the cops shoot the marine *in the head with a rubber bullet*

Protesters say he was struck by a tear gas canister fired by police. They have regrouped, holding a candlelight vigil for Mr Olsen and calling for a citywide strike.

Vintage Foster, a spokesman for the hospital where Mr Olsen lies in a fair condition, says the 24-year-old is aware of the reaction.

hit with gas canister

You people do not even know what the hell you are talking about.

reply to post by popsmayhem


And that is any better?

Are people drunk tonight, or what?