Zombie Physiology

I figured that this would be the best place to put this since we are dealing with a species, albeit an undead species of homo sapien, maybe homo necrien? Anyways, I get the folklore fear of zombies playing on our instictual fear of being eaten alive, however, when we look at the zombie as the stuff of hollywood and pulp fiction, how do they really work? The voodoo based zombie is still alive, only in a deep chemically induced trance.

So, take the virally induced zombie that you read about all over. If the body dies and is then reanimated, how dow the muscles actually work at that point.

Per Craig Freudenrich, Ph.D., quoted from How it works web site. link at bottom, and summarized here, because it is a lot of reading, lol, but a nerve signal activates the chemical receptors in the muscle causing the to contract and relax. This depends on water based chemical signaling, blood for oxygenation, and a source of carbohydrates. As the zombie has not heart beat, that we know of, does not actually digest what it eats, that we know of, how does it continue to functionas it slowly decays? Outside of the supernatural glue holding it together per se, how would these things realy work.

Just a random thought I felt like throwing out here to see what kind of response, I would get, if any.


science.howstuffworks.com...

Funny to stumble upon this thread. I've spent three nights in a row watching Zombie movies, Zombie land / 28 days later/ 28 weeks later.
Zombies actually freak the living crap out of me.

Is a zombie ( non-voodoo) actually deceased and reanimated or is it like something viral like in 28 days later orI am Legend, where they arent dead just completely mad-rabid?

If it is indeed the undead version then it would operate on extremely low levels of electricity. Probably too low to move muscles. Therefore I believe the WALKING undead would not happen however it's probable that homo sapiens that have deceased yet still have little amounts of brain activity/electricity could be considered undead to some extend. It would rather be a viral disease that makes LIVING homo sapiens extremely violent and primitive.

On the other hand it might be that it's not a virus but a parasite or something alien that we don't yet know of that gives enough impulse to our dead to reanimate them and act primitive like the walking dead.

Voodoo zombies are drugged people I believe.

reply to post by mantarey


There are a number of possibilities, most captured by hollywood on how it could start.....But lets look at basics, a lobotomy basically removes the higher functions and turns the individual into a base drive creature.....So what about brain worms or virus that remove that higher functionality and leave just the drive to feed. That individual would not respond to pain, the drive to feed would be overwhelming and would trump all over stimuli.

The body is just a machine like any other, and we all know that there are many ways to 'rig' a machine to run long after it is supposed to. If a viral infection was to invade the brain and kill the normal pattern of brain functions but still send out the electrical impulses, then we would be back to the basic impulses to feed and rough movement.

Most of us have woken up after a really good night out, and our first drive was food and coffee (oh god, starbucks is screwed when the zombie apocalypse happens). If we as a society experience a chemical or radiological contamination, we might be experiencing the hang over from hell. Higher thought would be destroyed, the neural system would be degraded, and leave just the body running on it's primary functions.

My thoughts on this are really nothing more than how could bodies re-animate without actually being 'zombies'.....there are many stories where a drugged up individual (ie, pcp) was shot in the chest and kept coming. They would appear on the outset to be unkillable, but in reality, they just weren't aware of the 'pain' aspect, just the drive. This would still make those individuals insanely dangerous, but on a different level than the hollywood zombie.

Just my thoughts

ps.....all of the scenarios really encompass the same end result. A body that continues to function without personality. That body functions on base instincts, ~see it, kill it, eat it~. but the body does start to degrade, resembling what we know as the standard zombie form.

Exactly. However a homo sapien that functions on its basic drives will still die after a week without water.
So they would have to be intelligent enough to drink from a creek and check whether it's proper to drink or not.
We survived for such a long time because we are rather intelligent and a 'zombie' lacks this so I think they wouldn't hold out for a week and a half if they are just primitive versions of us.

However if it's the typical Hollywood zombie that has no heart beat so that it doesn't require anything from the outside to operate then it would require something intelligent to control it to operate. If it's just random electricity generated after the homo sapien deceased then it would just be a spasm'ing body.

The most rational explanation to anything similar to zombies is very, very primitive humans that still have a heart beat in my opinion.
The desire to feed are very primitive and instinctual but a corpse without a functioning brain would not have these desires. The brain would still have to function properly to have these desires and therefore it could not be undead as in that case there is no heart beat so there is no circulation to make the brain operate.

Now if you replace the brain with a parasite it could work after all. It would be the organism translating it's electrical signals through the human body and making it move.

Personally I find very much more interesting the virus/parasite angle on living people than the classical undead.
I find them not very realistic.
This is from a biological pov.
If we start considering magic and curses from old legends then why not.

There are lots of parasites in the real world who are able to control to some extent lesser creatures such as ants, crabs and snails.

en.wikipedia.org...
I have a documentary about 'mind-altering' parasites somewhere but I cannot find it.

ps- not to be pedantinc, but 'Homo Sapien' doesn't exist, the singular form is Homo Sapiens, sapiens is the present participle of sapio (sapere).

Originally posted by AurelioMaghe
Personally I find very much more interesting the virus/parasite angle on living people than the classical undead.
I find them not very realistic.

I agree. It's much more plausible.

Originally posted by AurelioMaghe
ps- not to be pedantinc, but 'Homo Sapien' doesn't exist, the singular form is Homo Sapiens, sapiens is the present participle of sapio (sapere).

Thank you I appreciate your correction.

reply to post by Lykantroph11


Technically the folks in the 28 series aren't zombies, the premise there is they are infected with rage and they actually die after they starve to death. The definition of a Zombie is a re-animated corpse. Frankenstein would be considered a Zombie.

So in both of these cases normal human physiology would apply. Strength is a direct result of over stimulized adrenal glands from the fight or flight response.

Thanks.

reply to post by pointr97


True on many levels, but the key exploration is that if we look a neuro transmitters, they are not true electrical impulses but the actual molecular exchange of chemicals across a synaptic gap. In order to that transmission to occur and the passing of electrons between chemical compounds you need a transport medium. For humans it is good old H20. As a body loses water it stops functioning. Thus you can go two weeks without food but three days is about the limit for no water. Cramps, headaches, etc. can all be attributed to lack of water.

In all other cases where we are not looking at reanimated dead tissue, but a virally or parasite induced phychosis of extreme rage and elimination of higher brain function then a standard kill method would work. But in reanimation it is alway, "you have to make a head shot", but why other than it is in the script. LOL.

reply to post by novuslibertas


Ok, so on the parasite angle, could it be that is would secret needed fluids in order to drive the victim, or is it further down a DNA level that the parasite replicates itself using the body as a guide or frame work. I know, Invasion of the body snatchers, but that is a different premise.

The scary part is, if this ever did come out wholly crap, talk about fright fest.

reply to post by AurelioMaghe


True and true and also thanks for the latin correction. Lots on the web about Zombie parasites and infections. IT is fun though to sit and wonder, how would that work.

reply to post by mantarey


Zombie physiology is tricky business! As you put it, without the supernatural clue holding all of it together it would difficult to pull off. So looking at it from a "cerebral" view, whether zombification is the result of preternatural causes or something parasitic/viral, we know the following: They eat and feed, that's pretty much it. Only the most basics of survival, pure instinct. They have no personality so we can assume the functions of the frontal lobe have been suppressed. They don't speak or can't speak. This is called dysphagia or aphasia. Since our speech center is located in the left upper brain, temporal/parietal lobe, we can also assume this area has been suppressed or destroyed. They retain the ability to move/walk, so the motor strip in the cerebrum is intact, this contradicts the belief that zombies have no upper brain function. Their movements are harsh and ataxic at best. We can conclude from this the cerebellum in the brain stem, which controls fine motor skills and coordination, is suppressed or destroyed. This is further substantiated by the fact that they have no cardiac or respiratory function, also controlled by the brain stem. Now, some of this may not apply anymore because we see zombies run with better coordination in recent zombie movies. Frightening to say the least!

Yes it's indeed fun to sit and wonder. I'm a huge zombie fan however I've never really wondered myself of how it could possibly work.

An alien parasite like in body snatchers could maybe 'attach' itself and replicate brainwaves or send electrical signals to the spinal cord. However I'm no doctor!

A virus like in 28 would be realistic; especially with how they explained how the victims would die of hunger and thirst after a period of infection.

The typical walker caused by a virus.. I personally don't see how.. Are viruses able to generate brainwaves/electricity?

The Biology of a Zombie It has been determined that the source of the motivation to feed on living flesh is the zombified brain. Or to be precise, the brain stem. Function: * Alertness * Arousal * Feeding and hunger * Breathing * Blood Pressure * Contains Most of the Crainal Nerves * Digestion * Heart Rate * Other Autonomic Functions * Relays Information between the Peripheral Nerves and Spinal Cord to the Upper Parts of the Brain

Transformation. Zombies awaken from their comas in a catatonic state.

These are the only two paragraphs I can find in the zombie survival guide that give a little insight.

I always envisioned it would be a virus/parasite scenario for more 'realism'. A parasite that can live symbiotically with its host and be able to control its main functions for survival like transportation and feeding. What I see is a parasite which on a genetic level be designed to mimic functions dead cells used to do, and they could be specific functions like the brain, nervous system and musculature. So basically whatever part the virus ends up in the body it will adapt and change itself to be that function based on its surroundings. They wouldn't be the perfect replacement and the body would only last so long but enough for feeding and replication and a chance to move on to another host.

This would be a pretty intelligently evolved virus/parasite to do all these things but its zombies we're talking about here lol

So on that note....BrRRRaiNNNS!

The original Resident Evil and even Max Brook's zombies are my focus.

Basically, the host first becomes infected. The virus then takes over the cellular structure of the host based on the program of the virus itself.

The virus kills the host in order to reanimate them with new mental parameters (while host is temporarily "dead", the virus constructs a second "brain" that takes over the functions of the original brain). Then the virus seeks to replicate itself by instructing the host to bite more victims.

A virus generally doesn't seek to survive with the host and if it would do what you are saying it would have to be of extremely intelligence. It just blatantly kills or damages and that's what most viruses do. Therefore I don't think a virus would be a logical explanation. A deadly parasite however would have a reason to reanimate.

The zombie is a science fiction creation in the sense that it is dead, but not really.
Where zombie could become reality is some kind of airborne transferable virus which induces a psychotic or delusional state of mind in the recipient. It's been witnessed in other species.

The true risk lies not in our ability to create the viruses, but our inability to ultimately control ourselves.
If we keep playing god, eventually our creation will turn..

reply to post by yourmaker


If we understand how it works and how to create it we will know how to destroy it.

Originally posted by novuslibertas
reply to post by yourmaker

 

If we understand how it works and how to create it we will know how to destroy it.

What if the virus mutates? And vaccination becomes impossible?
Expands via rats quicker than the CDC could ever possibly imagine to handle, like the black plague?

If we truly understood, we would not create it to have to learn how to destroy it before it destroys us.

Originally posted by novuslibertas
A virus generally doesn't seek to survive with the host and if it would do what you are saying it would have to be of extremely intelligence. It just blatantly kills or damages and that's what most viruses do. Therefore I don't think a virus would be a logical explanation. A deadly parasite however would have a reason to reanimate.

We aren't talking about most viruses

The zombies from Resident Evil are common byproducts of the T-Virus, which is a bio-engineered virus designed to create bio-organic weapons (specifically "Tyrants" which require a specific DNA match to be successful, otherwise it just turns the host into a zombie reject). However, creating zombies is also useful as a weapon of mass destruction since you can infect victims of your enemy force and return them, only to spark a zombie outbreak in their territory.

The Max Brooks zombies (from the "Zombie Survival Guide"/"World War Z") are the result of an ancient virus referred to as Solanum. It's been some time since I read these books, but it's pretty much the same physical changes as Resident Evil zombies (aside from advanced biological weapons). Though it must be noted that these books specifically point out that zombies have jelly-fied blood and their bodily systems seem to be inoperational, aside from energy creation. I don't even think they digest food, but rather run on what they "died" with. Thus, their only reason for biting victims is to transmute the virus.

In regards to your comment, I don't think intelligence has anything to do with a virus. A virus attaches to a normal cell, replicates and takes over more cells until there are none left or the host is dead. The entire purpose of a virus is to reproduce, so the zombie concept goes hand in hand with virus. Also, viruses are programmed to modify cells (they change programming to survive the perpetual war with immune systems, or can be artificially programmed in a lab). When I say that a virus kills its host before reanimation, I mean that the virus shuts down the immune system and completely takes over; technically the host doesn't really die as an organism, but certainly dies as a concious individual since their braincells become infected and overwritten with orders for the host to carry out the will of the virus.