Chancellor of St Pauls Cathedral Resigns over Occupy London.

Originally posted by The_Phantom
For the past week or so I keep going back to Marry Poppins, I can't stop thinking about it. Feed the birds is a song in the movie about a person without a job that calls for people to help the hungry birds, or those in need, on the steps of Saint Paul's as the opposition of the bankers in the movie...

"Come, buy my bags full of crumbs;
Come feed the little birds,
Show them you care
And you'll be glad if you do
Their young ones are hungry
Their nests are so bare
All it takes is tuppence from you
Feed the birds, tuppence a bag
Tuppence, tuppence, tuppence a bag

Not sure the bankers wouldn't uphold her capitalist ideals tbh. Few loafs of bread and a massive mark up...it's not like she's giving them away from the goodness of her heart is it?

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by The_Phantom
For the past week or so I keep going back to Marry Poppins, I can't stop thinking about it. Feed the birds is a song in the movie about a person without a job that calls for people to help the hungry birds, or those in need, on the steps of Saint Paul's as the opposition of the bankers in the movie...

"Come, buy my bags full of crumbs;
Come feed the little birds,
Show them you care
And you'll be glad if you do
Their young ones are hungry
Their nests are so bare
All it takes is tuppence from you
Feed the birds, tuppence a bag
Tuppence, tuppence, tuppence a bag

Not sure the bankers wouldn't uphold her capitalist ideals tbh. Few loafs of bread and a massive mark up...it's not like she's giving them away from the goodness of her heart is it?

I'm pretty sure that tuppence is two cents...

I guess I'm not an economist, is that a massive markup on bread?

I also take it in a figurative way though, there is a saying, 'my two cents' meaning to share in the discussion or to get involved.

Let's let the man speak for himself.

David Grouchy

I resigned because I believe the chapter was set on a course of action that
could ultimately lead to violence, to eviction, to protesters being forcibly moved on.
And all that I've done in the last couple of weeks.
Has it been just a couple of weeks?
It seems longer then that.
Has been to try and sort this situation out.
Without there being any force used in the name of the church,
which I believe would be wrong.

Interviewer: What's at stake for you here.

Exactly that.
The church using violence.
In order to protect itself.
And that's something
that I believe
it shouldn't do.

Interviewer: The church has been more than fair, hasn't it,
to the protestors, to invite them in for sanctuary, then to ask them to move on.

I don't believe the church did give them sanctuary.
I mean no one actually gave protesters permission,
in any sence,
to be there.
I mean on the morning when I arrived
there was a line of police on the front steps of the cathedral
and I asked that those police who were
baring entry for people who were comming to 8 o'clock communion
to stand aside
and for the protesters to stand aside,
but what that wasn't
was any invitation for people to stay or to be there.

I was asked if I believe in the right to free speach,
and yes I believe in the right to peaceful free speach.

Interviewer: Well even more so then, the church has been more than fair to the protesters, they have to move on,
so eventually force might have to be used.
That's the way things go.

...So ...so you're actually right, there is concience on all sides of this issue and so forth.
And my colleagues who have travelled down a different path to me
have also acted out of concience
for their sense of what is right here.

We've had some of the most extrodinary grown up
and respectful conversations over this last week
and the idea that chapter is divided,
we take a different path on this particular issue,
but actually we're very strong
and it is a group of people I have huge
love, admiration, and respect for,
and the fact that I have unfortunately,
you know,
found myself unable to travel down this path with them
in no way indicates that we're at odds with each other
I'm afraid for me it's just a mater of principal.

I transcribed the first half of the video.
The second half is a couple of protesters outside
speaking well of the man.

Every institution falls to corruption however that does not mean all the people within are corrupt. That church just proved that its decision makers are corrupt and only interested in revenue.
To the one who lost his job for following the true teachings of Christ. Regardless of your beliefs in the accuracy of the New Testament accounts this man showed he was not all words and can hold his head high at the end of his days.

After seeing the transcript above my post, I find the situation different than first reported-- but here was my original post...



I am sympathetic, but not offended. Here is why.

I hate it when clergy use their influence for political statements. I despise it. It is worldly-- fine for anyone but clergy. They can and do have their views, but they remain silent while wearing the collar--if that view is obviously divisive.

The Canon offering protesters a safe place on the Church ground overnight is one thing. The Canon being declared sympathetic to their cause is another-- that one crosses a line.

Likewise, his being asked (presumably) to resign, smacks as a political move from a superior; but declaring politics in a cathedral, parish or mission is dangerous to the important relations of the clergy to their parishioners.

I have advised clergy to refrain from political bumper stickers and such for that reason. They need to be neutral. Fair or not, their spiritual authority can lead them and their flocks to assume authority beyond that-- and they and their flocks would be wrong.

Jesus would never ask a surcharge for entrance into his house of prayer and I’ll be damned if any of these blasphemers will either. No church whether it is Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox should have any involvement in the activities of these nihilistic capitalists who seek merely the extension of their iron fist over the heart of man. Any priest who betrays the word of God shall be punished two-fold, for he works against God while wearing his robe and preaching his word. A hypocrite and a blasphemer, to betray man when you are here to work for their betterment is despicable.

Thankfully at least this Chancellor truly held enough morality within his person to stand on behalf of those he pledged to protect. Capitalism and the Church do not mix, as economics is the nemesis of God. We have not time for hypocrites in the halls of our Father.




Beware those who wield the serpents tongue.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Now there is a man of conviction and certainly not one anyone can call a dirty hippie or communist. Look hard enough and every segment of society would seem to be represented. Including whatever each individual person considers the 'correct' segments. It's all there to find, and I tip my hat to this man of the cloth. If people had just half his strength of conviction, we wouldn't have gotten to a point where Occupy was needed in the first place, IMHO.

S/F for a great story, in an inspirational way. Sorry he had to sacrifice what he did though.

Your posts are always so meaningful and I agree with you. My thanks goes out to this priest for standing up for what he believes in and the thousands out there protesting across the globe

SnF OP for a great story

reply to post by Misoir


On the radio now , they are discussing whether Jesus would be outside with the protesters or inside a cathedral that charges £14.50 for entry. It's a pretty one sided debate as you could imagine. I think the Church of England has shot itself in the foot here, at a time when the church is losing numbers, this has been a PR disaster provoking the question being discussed.

reply to post by woodwardjnr




Was going to say, It's not as if the church is popular or has any authority any more.

If they had done the decent, moral, "Christian" thing... and defended and protected and welcomed these protesters, I think the Church would have gained a lot of respect.

They certainly did from me when this first happened.... then I started reading about the arguing and plans to have them removed and then I was annoyed.


David Cameron and several other politicians.... including all of those on Question Time last night, are all for having these protesters removed and are against occupied protests.

Iain Duncan Smith also used the "Look the tents are empty at night" argument, which has been proved on ATS and also a couple of MSM channels, to be false.
Yet NOBODY challenged him.... one guy form the audience talked about gas heaters.... but nobody challenged him on the panel..... this is worrying.... they want these protesters gone, they even started using "Remembrance Sunday" as a way of guilt tripping or tugging at people's heart strings to get them against the protesters.... saying that "They should be gone by 11th November, people have a right to Mourn dead heroes"


Made me sick.... what a BS, pathetic attempt to get the public against these protests,

reply to post by blupblup


Yeah I saw that last night, the smugness on IDS's face when he was making his comments. Just goes to show how out of touch he is, when even the comments section of the Daily Mail is in support of the protests.

Like you say though, this has been an own goal for the church, they could definitely have taken a moral stand on this one, rather than back down to their corporate partners. Everyone knows that Jesus would have nothing to do with an institution that is behaving like St Pauls.

So would jesus throw the people off the churchs land, who are protesting? I dont think so. he would be stood by their sides against this gang of thieves.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Thank you for reminding me that was on last night, I missed it. Is going to watch it on BBC Iplayer now, will pot my thoughts on it afterwards.

But for updates, the Co-operated London City are taking legal action, to have the occupy protest removed from St Paul's. Seems violence might be on the horizon, there are already tweets for people to go to St Paul's and Support the Occupied London Movement.

To commence proceedings to remove the encampment on the grounds that the encampment constitutes an unreasonable user [sic] of the highway and/or on such grounds as may be advised.

Guardian

Open debate amongst the Christian Communities over the Occupy movement at St Paul's, on the one hand we have those who are at St Paul's who want the Protestors removed, but now we have eight Christian groups so far whom are supporting the Movement.

Eight national Christian organisations have signed a statement declaring their support for the 'Occupy London' protests. They include the Student Christian Movement, the thinktank Ekklesia and the magazine Third Way. Other groups and churches are expected to add their backing shortly.

The level of support for the "Statement of Christian Solidarity" is a challenge to suggestions that churchgoers are turning against the protest due to the controversy involving St Paul's Cathedral

Well it seems that this is hotting up, which is going to be embarrassing for the Church of England as a whole.

Groups Back Occupy London Movement

Also Liberty UK have now become invovled in the Argument over wither or not the Movement should be forced to disband.

RT @OccupyLSX: The general assembly has accepted @libertyuk's offer to mediate between #occupylsx @Stpaulslondon and the Corporation

Posted by the General Assembly through Twitter.

reply to post by woodwardjnr




I know man, what a dick... he really was sooo smug Grrrrrrr!!!


I have to say I was seriously disappointed with Question Time last night, usually they have all sides represented and I'm not saying necessarily that they didn't, but I guess it made me realise just how in the **** our politics is right now.

The Lib Dems usually offer a balanced, counter view... they are now in bed with the Tories and can't say anything against them it seems.

Labour have no identity and are pretty much guilty of everything the accuse the Tories of, and have become somewhat disengaged from the public.


You know It's bad when you watch Question Time and you find yourself agreeing with Nigel Farage more than anyone else on the panel

:shk:


Seriously disappointed in the panel last night and seriously disappointed with politics in our country right now.

reply to post by blupblup


I actually disagreed with Nigel Farrell when he gave his views over the Occupy Camp at St Paul's Cathedral. To use Remembrance Sunday was a cheap shot as far as I am concerned.

And as for Ian Duncan Smith, well, he should remember he lost his leadership, with the same views he has now., Cant change the spots of a cat that is for sure,

They wonder why the Public do not like the Political class now a days.

Originally posted by AnonymousFem
reply to post by blupblup

 

I actually disagreed with Nigel Farrell when he gave his views over the Occupy Camp at St Paul's Cathedral. To use Remembrance Sunday was a cheap shot as far as I am concerned.
.

Oh yeah, obviously... but that was my point... Nobody said "hey let them stay" and nobody spoke up to challenge IDS about the BS of the tents being empty.



I despise Nigel Farage, but when he's attacking the current system and how politicians lie and how we were promised a referendum and never got one, It's hard to disagree with the man.

I couldn't stand any of them last night... all so disingenuous and so full of ****.

Typical politicians

reply to post by blupblup


One member of the Audience challenged and rebutted Ian Duncan Smiths, comments on the tents btw. I saw it right after he had made his comments. But the Panel ignored it, it seems.

On Nigel Farrell, I admire him for no being scared to speak his mind. But his remarks last night annoyed me. One one hand he challenges the right for democracy in the EU, but criticise's protestors in the UK for doing the exact same thing. Hypocrite.

reply to post by AnonymousFem




I know, I said about the guy in the audience saying "gas heaters" a few posts up.... and I said nobody picked up on it and nobody else challenged IDS.

And yes, Nigel Farage only does what he does to further his own needs and he just likes being difficult and he is a dick.... but it's still nice to see someone, even if it is him... calling other politicians out and showing them up.

reply to post by blupblup


Check out this video

reply to post by woodwardjnr




Oh I know, Like I said... I saw the thread on here a few days ago showing it to be bollocks.

Funny that the MSM don't want to investigate further and actually show that the initial reports/scam was a load of crap.... but then that would be too easy, ya know, telling the truth.


The legal battle will be hotting up soon, protesters are in talks with their legal representatives to find out where they stand and whether or not they are breaking any laws etc.


This will get interesting I think.