A Brief History of Revolution

Since joining ATS I have gone through many changes politically. At one point I wrote a thread entitled The Declaration of Independence 2009. Born out of frustration with my government for ignoring the Constitution and in many cases egregiously violating the rights of Americans that our Founders warned us to jealously guard. I felt then that revolution may be the only answer, and that the "blood of patriots and tyrants" was needed to purge the country of the evils I perceived around me.

Since writing that thread I have done a lot of growing as a person. My frustration has morphed into determination to right the wrongs, but not by the barrel of my AR15, but by the power of my ideas. Throughout this time I have made strange alliances with members that would normally be diametrically opposed to my view on the world...Though we shared one thing, we'd rather yell at each other over policy than shoot at each other over control. Why? Because history teaches us to be VERY careful what we wish for.

As the United States was wrapping up the revolution with the ratification of the US Constitution in 1789, the French were just beginning to feel the air of revolt blowing around them. Mass poverty and top heavy economics were simply crushing the people. A yearning for liberty akin to what their American brothers had achieved was swiftly becoming popular. Equality under the law, citizenship, and inalienable rights were the call of the day. They were the principles of the Enlightenment Era, and the French were just as ferociously hungry for these ideals as they were for the bread they lacked.

Looking back at the French Revolution is like staring into a mirror today. Financial crisis, hunger, unemployment, unresponsive government, and a greedy callous merchant class fueled class hatred and eventually gave life to what would be known as the Reign of Terror. The overthrow of the old system was complete, and after the execution of Maximilian Robespierre(The leader of the French Revolution) power was vested in a select group of individuals known as The Directory, unhinged and poorly organized, it was replaced by a Consulate that gave rise to none other than Napoleon Bonaparte. A Dictator who took the country to war and brought ruin to Europe, the Americas, and France in a very short amount of time. The hunger for revolution was all the opportunity needed for an organized group to seize power in a disorganized situation.

Another little known revolution was the Taiping Rebellion which killed 20 million people nearly all of which were civilians lead by a religious fanatic named Hong Xiuquan. This rebellion was to establish a Chinese national identity. Instead the winners of that revolution were England and France. China was under foreign rule as a result. Another failed revolution. The Communists that would later on take control of the country would learn from this revolution, and they too would usher in several decades of oppression and murder by the millions.

The Cuban Revolution was another example of a hungry and desperate people looking to oust corruption and tyranny from their land and breath the air of liberty. Instead, the leaders of the Cuban revolution forced a communist dictatorship on the people. Today the Revolution is alive and well, and serving as a living example of how autocrats take advantage of desperate and unorganized situations to take power.

Which brings me to the Second American Revolution....It hasn't happened yet. And I don't think it should. I've heard many calls from the left and the right about how the American people should grab their guns and fight the 'powers that be'. To me, this is a very frightening prospect as the Founders of this great nation were incredibly fortunate to have crafted their nation after having organized and won the war of Independence from the British crown. Divine Providence, indeed. However, today the world is far more complex. There are groups of well organized people and foreign interests who would love nothing less than to see chaos on the streets of America, waiting with bated breath for their opportunity to offer the salvation that many here clamor for. Be it a communist revolt, or a Constitutionalist revolt, I believe the chaos to ensue would serve the purposes of those who's ideals would leave the United States in the hands of dictators..A dangerous prospect, not only for Americans, but for the world as a whole.

We have the most advanced military force the world has ever seen. We have the worlds most secretive and best organized intelligence apparatus. Imagine that power in the hands of less scrupulous leaders than those we complain about today.

History, indeed, teaches us to be ever so careful. If we ignore the warnings of history we will wind up slaves to a power as of yet unrealized in brutality and pervasiveness. We should seek restoration of what made this country great, prosperous, and free. To wish for revolution, in the context of every failed revolution in history, would be to wish for our own demise.

So I ask my fellow Americans, do not be so hasty toward Revolution. There is still time, there is still hope, there is still a way forward.

I concur sir, the people can only "control" a revolution so long. There are those in this world that for hundreds of years have made the selves quite the experts on how to instigate a revolution, then lead it towards their own goals. 2011 will be no different if you don't heed the warnings of history. Take a look at "Deceleration of the right of man and the citizen"; notice anything familiar?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/34cf66b991ac.jpg[/atsimg]

You are correct about violent social revolutions. Mobs always devolve into hierarchies and "the people" usually end up worse off than they were before. Using your analogy to the French Rev, however, you have to keep in mind that Robespierre was one of the most bloodthirsty humans in history. He, and the 12 man Comittee of Public Safety, were the main instigators of the Reign of Terror. The Directory and Napoleon were enlightened and soft compared to the full revolutionaries. Mobs are dangerous and some faction always emerges to steer them.

Recent reports of the OWS Finance Committee's control over all aspects of the NYC protest brings to mind the Committee of 12. Although I think our revolutionary wannabes are entirely too soft to take things that far. I mean, the Parisian underclass and the French peasantry were literally starving. There isn't really that strong a comparison, other than domination of an elite. It's hard to take people with iphones, laptops, plenty of food, air conditioning, etc and compare them to the French in 1789, who had to fight over stale bread and dress themselves in rags.

Comparisons to the American Revolution are null and void. That one was led by the elite colonists largely due to the fact that the King's policy's were messing up their profits.

reply to post by radosta


It is hard to make those comparisons.

But it isn't hard to see some of the parallels. When I refer to many OWS people as French Revolutionists it isn't because they're starving, but because their hatred for the rich and their "off with their heads" attitudes are akin to the feelings the French had toward the aristocrats. That hatred was so deep and rooted that they ruined their own nation and any prospect of a prosperous civilization in the process.

And then there's the "Constitutionalists". Many of which believe that revolutions should be fought every 20 years as Thomas Jefferson suggested.

Only problem is they don't stop to consider that the victory of the Founders gave them an sense of confidence that clouded their judgement in many respects. Later on when the Constitution was ratified, it exemplified a document that sought to prevent violent revolution by granting the citizens of the United States the final say over the course of the nation, as well as the impetus of guardianship and stewardship of liberty by the right of individuals to bear arms.

It was truly a stroke of genius.

To me the mood is more akin to the Whiskey Rebellion, but we must also be mindful of The Battle of Blair Mountain when the gongs for revolt are being sounded.

The realization of the ability to kill and destroy has an awesome effect on people. Typically the effect is that having that power is the responsibility to not use it. However as, morality and the value of life degrades, people are more inclined to reaction out of limited emotion than prolonged thought.

Just like with the Whiskey Rebellion, many people feel that the system in place is stacked against them unfairly. And to a degree, I have to agree with that thought. But by taking to the time to think things through rather than to feel desperate and powerless to the situations at hand, solutions can be found.

Yes, since the week of Inauguration in 2009 of Obama, I have had many economic setbacks. And yes, I would like to punch him in the face for the mistakes he has done and allowed to happen during his administration. But I can honestly say that I doubt that I would. Calmly explaining how he has screwed up could lead to him actually trying to fix the situation far better than just giving a black eye or a split lip with no explanation for my own personal satisfaction ever would.

I guess that level of selfishness vs. selflessness is the difference between violence and discussion as a means of solving things. While I think many of the ideas expressed by the OWS group is outright silly. I understand the spirit of frustration that has lead them there...it is that same spirit that lead to the forming of the TEA Party.

But what is really needed is an Occupy the US Capitol Building. There are 535 people that should be there working on the solutions. But if they are not up to snuff for fixing it, then a different 435 need to be installed next year in the House as well as 1/3 of the Senate. As for the Oval Office, Obama needs to be voted out. From what I have seen of his presidency so far, it has been little more than grandstanding and self-gratulation....Let us eat cake, indeed.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

I feel somewhat similar, but do differ a bit.

I see no good reason why a few hundred heads shouldn't roll, but each one should be the very worst of the whole lot, and each charge be fully accounted for.

I do see a LOT of sketchy things going on in the OWS movement.

I see the possibility, maybe even probability, that a dictator will arise from this revolution.

The thing is, which is worse?

Thousands are losing their homes, communities are being broken down, and people are being pushed on the streets.

The government is too far gone for simple reform via traditional means.

A revolution, or civil war is a must in my view.

I do fully agree that we must be both vigilant, and highly perceptive each step of the way through this to not end up in an even worse situation.

Good luck, patriots.

reply to post by unityemissions


This post wasn't meant as a guide to how to succeed in a revolution.

It is a warning that rarely does the revolutionary succeed in his/her mission.
I think it's very important to keep that in mind.

To right the failure of many people and their governments false premise is that a bullet solves a problem you can destroy a army,their country even the people themselves but their ideals will always live on.

That old adage the pen is mightier than the sword for the neauveau generation the power of a forum on the "internets" is just as effective as a drone attack and cruise missile and of course revolution has many faces.

We all change we must if we never do then that's that and there ain't no coming back.

All mankind is divided into three classes: those that are immovable, those that are movable, and those that move. Benjamin Franklin

As time and events change so must we.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by radosta

 

It is hard to make those comparisons.

But it isn't hard to see some of the parallels. When I refer to many OWS people as French Revolutionists it isn't because they're starving, but because their hatred for the rich and their "off with their heads" attitudes are akin to the feelings the French had toward the aristocrats. That hatred was so deep and rooted that they ruined their own nation and any prospect of a prosperous civilization in the process.

And then there's the "Constitutionalists". Many of which believe that revolutions should be fought every 20 years as Thomas Jefferson suggested.

Only problem is they don't stop to consider that the victory of the Founders gave them an sense of confidence that clouded their judgement in many respects. Later on when the Constitution was ratified, it exemplified a document that sought to prevent violent revolution by granting the citizens of the United States the final say over the course of the nation, as well as the impetus of guardianship and stewardship of liberty by the right of individuals to bear arms.

It was truly a stroke of genius.

You need to run for office, sir

reply to post by radosta


Running for office would make me a bitter old man and would turn me gray very quickly...I'm 27...

You are right my friend.

Protesting is one thing...........Radical change is another.

Be careful what you wish for.






S&F

reply to post by sonnny1


Indeed. All I ask of my fellow Americans is to be very careful what they wish for. There are many lurking in the shadows waiting for their opportunity at the helm of the most power nation on Earth.

If allowed to take control it will be the doom of us all. And you can take that to the bank.

Originally posted by projectvxn
............... And you can take that to the bank.

Ironic,to say the least..........................

reply to post by sonnny1


Interestingly most of the people who clamor for revolution wouldn't be able to stomach it if it actually happened. They'd curl up like delicate little flowers and shrivel with fear the second the shooting started.

Originally posted by Ahabstar


But what is really needed is an Occupy the US Capitol Building. There are 535 people that should be there working on the solutions. But if they are not up to snuff for fixing it, then a different 435 need to be installed next year in the House as well as 1/3 of the Senate. As for the Oval Office, Obama needs to be voted out. From what I have seen of his presidency so far, it has been little more than grandstanding and self-gratulation....Let us eat cake, indeed.

Absolutely, and spot on.

MANY believe in this,and have been ridiculed to no end by OWS supporters.. Its the "Bankers" or its the "Corporations" fault,and yes after those said entity's,its the Governments. All fail to understand that GOVERNMENT put us in these straights. All fail to realize their part in it.From voting along political lines,to feeding these Corporations,as they use You Tube,or Facebook to get their messages out. As they "hit-up" their ATMs,and deposit their monies into "Banks". Change is needed,Not Hope,Nor Revolution. I will march on DC,when I see the Masses gather. Not for Revolution,but Change. I believe we will see MILLIONS marching on DC. Not Thousands,like in OWS. Soon.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Interestingly most of the people who clamor for revolution wouldn't be able to stomach it if it actually happened. They'd curl up like delicate little flowers and shrivel with fear the second the shooting started.

edit on 25-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Hell,I am of mixed decent,Lived in a bad neighborhood my whole childhood. Ive seen injustices,and Ive seen the good in common Americans. I have 6 cousins,all in the military. My Grandfather served in WW2. I was taught to respect life.I feel for this generation,and the mentality that goes with it. When the suburbs start to hear gunshots,then you will see FEAR. trust me.

reply to post by sonnny1


We grew up similarly then. Being a Hispanic immigrant and growing up in some of the worst neighborhoods in LA and Las Vegas..I have seen things I don't think these people could stomach. If a hot revolution ever broke out in this country, it would be bloodier than any civil war before it.

reply to post by projectvxn


to you sir; for you have pointed out the very fine line of freedom and control OWS could be called a threat and marshal law declared this is one possibility;we all know what that would lead too.
OWS does what the founding fathers did, create a new from of gov for the people of the people by the people, all have equality (same pay, same rights, and same care, no one above the other, sounds like anti capitalism does it not? a Doc/MD. making as much as say a person that mows your lawn? unthinkable/ sarcasm] or vice versa... must be one darn good mower for that pay ie

General Surgeon $225,000
Pediatrician, General $95,000 Family Physician / Doctor $164,311

I think we all would mow lawns for that pay

reply to post by bekod


This isn't really about OWS.

And no one is going to declare them an enemy unless they pull out guns and start trying to kill those they disagree with. If that happens you can rest assured that they will be stopped, and rightly so.

Same thing with the right wingers who ache and have wet dreams of killing those they disagree with because they're too stupid to articulate their ideas in ways that would make sense, winning the day on their merits rather than the ferocity of their animalistic tendencies.

reply to post by projectvxn


Yeah,I have some mixed up blood lines! Heck,my kids are Indian(2 types),Puerto Rican,Black,and Italian.. This country is a melting pot,thats for sure. Did you ever hear the joke about the Italian and the Indian? ...........
Nevermind...............